Well, yes, I believe him. He does love me in his way. I think that my Hs love means that he loves having me around and that I enhance his life.

I wrestle with that too and believe he loves me to the best of his ability, but that doesn't feel like love to me.

Sometimes when he's hugging me I want to ask "will you ever love me for real "?

I know what you mean Sand. But, I think I've come to understand that perhaps my kind of love was too much, and his kind too little, and the somewhere in the middle is likely best.

Learninskills: I read your responses and I love all the advice you give and I believe you are very strong and well knowledgeable of these types of situations or at least your own, but I have a question or more a thought- please do not take this wrong way as I am not sure this will be presented correctly. I get the impression some times when I read your words that you merely settled for what is your life now? Not judging or saying its wrong- I just want to know if I am internalizing that or completely off? And maybe settling isn't the word. Sorry for the comment if it brings up any issues.

Hi all...I have been gone again for awhile. Catching up. Last month, my h and I had a good discussion. Part of it was that neither of us tell the other we love them. I have love for my h but I am not sure if I am in love with him or maybe my definition of love has changed or needs to change. When all of this began I was told that my expectations were unreal and that people were human etc... I have been married 33 years and dated 5 years to the same man. So if I have to change my definition, am I settling. I think so. I don't think my h is capable of loving me the way I want to be loved or need to be loved...he is too broken. We are broken. We married the wrong people to meet the needs of the brokenness. We both were wounded with different attachment styles that do not fit together at all (typical of addictive relationships) but here we are 38 years, 4 kids,and two grandkids later. I know you weren't speaking to me alexis but your question caused me great food for thought. Learning and I have traveled much the same road.

Something weird happened in September 2010 that was so profound I remember the date and time. There was one week about a year and a half into recovery that my h was a "different" man. He held me in the morning and at night and I could feel a difference. He wanted me to feel his love for men and I could. It was the h I always wanted and dreamed of and I took this as a sign. A sign that the person I longed for was really in side of him and could be discovered. I asked him why he was different and told him how I noticed the difference and he said he just wanted to show me he loved me. After one week that person was gone. So I went on in recovery believing God was showing me that the person was there and could be released. Now I think that maybe God was showing me what love really looked like and how I could feel with having that kind of person in my life. That my h was not that kind of person. I believe my h was acting on an experiment with his counselor because after a week it stopped and he returned to the avoidant he is. he shows me love when he needs it and therefore I keep my distance because every time I turn towards him he goes the opposite way. It is our "dance" they say. He attaches sex to love which I have issues with because then how could he be with other people.....such hypocrisy in his addiction. So I told him I used to believe sex was love but I had to change that belief because if I believed that I couldn't live with what he had done. Sex is simply an act. Real love is the everyday affection one shows the other. So six years in, this is what I have grappled with and when it comes down to it I guess it is settling or accepting that each of us who we are and why we are the way we are. Hope I am making sense....very deep issue.

HA...reread this and "He wanted me to feel his love for me" NOT men LOL

I struggle with that definition when I use the word love. ..right now I think it means choosing to value someone as special to you.

Cynclaire: I totally get you and it makes perfect sense. I mean I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with it or flawed really especially when so much time is invested and children are involved. I guess its just something I feel for myself.... I feel that as a new marriage we are dealing with stuff (i.e. losing the spark) that it seems we should be dealing with at 20 years of marriage and I'm not saying anytime is a good time for that. It just seems like once all this was discovered, and by all of it I mean his confession (that was all the disclosure I got), things just went downhill even more than before. And maybe it's been my reaction to it. So far I have felt I am dealing with a narcissistic misogynist.
Sandcastlefaith: I get you- I struggle with it too and sometimes I struggle with the actuality that I don't believe he feels anything for me anymore. I do view him as someone special to me- but when he reacts to me or outside influences it chips away at the respect that is still left for him (which isn't much).

Thanks!

Alexis: Sorry I've been away so much...very busy these days. Yes, I suppose it would seem that I have settled. I have accepted that what I once felt about my marriage was not true. I have accepted that things have changed and that they can never return to that place again. I think that sometimes changes are permanent and that's just the way it is. I don't think that I really expect things to ever be as they once were. I am no youngster looking for romantic love. I am a very adult woman seeking to live out the remainder of my life in the most peaceful way possible. In my estimation, that means accepting many things, my age, my health conditions, my financial conditions, etc. I think that in myself I find that logic and sensibility prevails over romanticisim?

Alexis: My computer goofed and quit. I feel like I was once so invested in the romantic love notion that I failed to see and honor the rest of the picture. I can't quite imagine that my H and I, sixtyish, are ever going to be like romantic youngsters again. I feel fortunate that I was able to feel that way for a really long time, fantasy or not. Romance, porn and lies don't blend for me at all. That stuff knocks the romance right out of me. I feel like there is no where for me to need to run to. I mean, if I were young I think I might well be looking for the romance thing again? And, likely, that wouldn't be a good thing at all? I feel like I did the best I could in that romance scenario for as long as I could. I feel like life moves me along. I can't quite imagine this 63 year old woman running to seek romantic love at this point. I think that was likely one of the hardest things for me to accept, giving up those notions and living in a balanced reality. Does that make sense?

Definitely has been the hardest thing for me to accept Learning. But I look at it a little differently I guess because I haven't fully accepted that I am too old to feel loved romantically by someone. My h and I both have attachment disorders. The problem is not that we have them but that they are so adverse to each other. Our disorders actually cause each other hurt and discomfort. He is an avoidant who feels discomfort when someone wants to get close and affectionate unless sex is attached. It's like there has to be a reason for affection. One doesn't just give affection so that the other person knows they are loved. He was one of ten and received little affection or attention. I need that affection to feel loved and I am unhappy and sad without it. That's my attachment style from my childhood. I crave it and it makes me happy. So I have educated myself on this topic to understand where we are both coming from and I do this to try to save my marriage. Problem is my h doesn't educate himself on it nor cares how it affects me so he doesn't meet me halfway....nor any way. Because our marriage was doomed from the start with the dynamics we had for it to survive we both have to recognize these things and talk about them, understand them about EACHOTHER not just ourselves and meet each other half way. I don't want to live the rest of my life with a sadness....I have had enough of that.

Learningskills: Very profound way of putting it. That makes a lot of sense... I can understand where you are coming from. I too, feel that same way to an extent. About change. I do not believe that my marriage will ever be close to what it was even though it was very new back then. I do believe this change is permanent and it was that that took the longest for me to accept- that this was my life right now. Even though I had never envisioned such a trauma. I also found it was hard to accept that my husband was not the man I married. It saddens me still but I have accepted it, doesn't make me feel the best- but it is somewhat of a relief. I guess I just look at my situation and think how things could have been different had I spoke up. I don't believe I'd ever get the chance to bring another baby in this world, and why would I want to. Especially with this man. But I think back and regret not doing maternity photos all because he was shutting down to them. I look back and realize the red flags right before we tied the knot- I'd definitely would like a do-over. We never celebrated our wedding or had the ceremony like he promised (just to name a few things that really bother me) and also ALL the loose ends from this confession that still have not been tied up...I realize those may be some trivial things- but to me they are a big deal.

Cyn: Been away for a while again. Sorry it took so long getting back here. You and I share so much. Oddly enough though, I do know that my H has demonstrated his romantic feelings toward me all through our marriage. Somehow...I'll never quite know how...he was able to feel romantic toward me, and yet, use the other stuff just for quick thrills. There was damage to his natural feelings yes, but not like me. I had warned him about using things like that way, way back in our marriage. Because? I do know me. And, I know that "I" can't mix those two. I know some can, but I'm not one who can. So, the damage occurred inside me. I had hoped that "maybe" I could scale the troublesome thoughts that those things bring me and return to at least a semblance of a romantic marriage. But, I wasn't able to do it again.

I took the advice I was given and had a long, detailed look at everything. I learned a lot from that. And, there is both good and bad in that learning. I had always been able to maintain my romantic feelings toward my H even though we have been together for well over thirty years. It was not easy to accept the changes all this brought inside of me. But, I do want to live the remainder of my life as peacefully, happily and serenely as possible. And, I grew weary of the constant emotional strain and drain. How long is long enough to waste? I feel like I struggled and struggled and what is still is. I mean, how long do I really have to wrestle with these things? I can't wrestle with one thing and be content at the same time. So, I feel like I can continue to wrestle with what once was, or, I can make the very best of what is today. I feel good most of the time, great sometimes, and blue once in a while. So, I think that's ok for this world, right?

Alexis: I know what you mean about looking back at what was in the context of new information. Things appear different than they did at the actual time they occurred. So, I feel like it's not really fair of me to down myself for what "I should have known" or "might have known" and done...etc. Because, in reality I did "not" know. Had I known, things would have been different. They are certainly different know that I "do" know. So, it does not good for me to look back at what "might have been" because that's only futility and self punishing.

So, I feel like, "today" I can and do speak up for myself, for what I want. And, I don't expect myself to come up with some magical wand to erase all the ick his behavior created. I didn't do that...he did...so...it's his problem to solve...not mine. I am here. I offer the chance and that is all. See, I do know that my H loves me. But, I'm pretty sure he doesn't love me like he did when we were in our twenties. He can't do that any more than I can.