Sexual Abuse Support Group
Sexual abuse is a relative cultural term used to describe sexual relations and behavior between two or more parties which are considered criminally and/or morally offensive. Different types of sexual abuse involve: Non-consensual, forced physical sexual behavior such as rape, incest or sexual assault, or psychological forms of abuse, such as verbal sexual behavior or...
(crossposted from incest survivor's forum)
Trigger warning perhaps -
Hello everyone - hope this finds you well!
I have seen a lot of posts lately about whether or not a victim "should" have felt pleasure during the sexual acts that were being performed upon them; posts both in incest and sexual abuse forums. Thus I am cross posting this in both forums to get coverage of it.
One of the largest hurdles that survivors face is that they feel shame, blame and partial responsibility for the abuse because there was a facet of pleasure involved, or at least in many abuse cases - for some of us that was a large facet, for others a small or minor facet.
It really does not matter. Most abuse starts with a "grooming" stage - this is well documented in decades of research concerning childhood sexual abuse. During that "grooming" stage, there are various tricks that abuser's use and the consistency of these practices has always made me feel like there must be a "How to succeed as a Sexual Abuser" handbook out there somewhere.
The initial stage of grooming for abuse rarely starts with outright violence and mayhem - although in some cases this is true, the majority of abuse survivors speak of having been almost "seduced into the abuse". The abusers will try various little tricks - "I have a secret and I will tell you, but you cannot tell anyone" or "let's play a game that is only ours to play" or in my case, my abuser showed me hardcore porn then said something like "This is what adults do - you want to see if your an adult? - but, you can't tell anyone because YOU will get into trouble." This after hinting about it for weeks and "wetting" my curiosity to almost unbearable limits. He was very good - but he had a lot of practice it turns out, with other children around him (and he was only 12 year old when he started to abuse me!)
Back to grooming - once the abuser has the child's confidence and secrecy forged, then they can proceed in any way they want - though most do the progressions slowly into other forms of abuse, it can be almost instantaneous that they move from "friend" / "family" into "threat" / "violator". At those stages fear is the motivator to stay quiet and keep the secret - fear of being blames, worse treatment, loss of the relationship, etc.
And as a child I felt pleasure with the abuse. Sex is pleasurable - regardless of the age. But a child's mind is not formed enough to be able to set limits, determine right from wrong or understand such concepts of boundaries - that is why, regardless whether you eventually started to initiate sexual encounters with the abuser - you are NOT TO BLAME. You were working within the framework of a child's mind - and looking back with adult eyes and perspectives can make you feel shame and such "because you were asking for it" or you see yourself as a "willing participant" - this is just bullshit. Your abuser trained you for this. Had you not been abused, you would not know what to even ask for.....you had no part of the abuse, regardless of your reactions.
Yes, I almost always ejaculated during an abuse episode - once I was old enough to do so. But then, my body was stimulated and if some part of it had not had a pleasure aspect to it, I would have been less likely to allow the abuse to continue, even as a child, even though my first abuser was very threatening after the grooming stage was over.
There were aspects of pain - in the later stages of the abuse, almost all of it was painful, but I was still excited physically, because these things were interrelated in my child's mental framework.
So, if you feel even the slightest bit of shame or blame due to your possibly enjoying a part of the abuse, or perhaps, in time, initiating it, you are STILL NOT TO BLAME. The more knowledgeable abuser started that train rolling and you were the victim - no matter what your response or reaction - you were still the victim here and just following the normal reactions to stimuli.
As I posted earlier - if an adult entices a child to smoke pot or try addictive drugs and the child wants to experience that euphoria again - we don't blame the child, but the one who gave them the drugs to begin with. Why is sex any different?
So, how many here were "seduced into the abuse"? And if you were, do you feel shame at your actions or reactions to what happened to you? I do hope you do not and if you do, I hope you understand that this is just a part of you that still needs focus and work. By taking ANY of the blame for such, you are letting the abuser off the hook - all this was their fault - none was yours.
I wish I knew how many abuser's in therapy have told me that the child was "asking for it" - but the reality is, a child will not ask for that which they do not know exists.
Sorry, this is so long, but this is a huge stumbling block for many survivors - don't let it remain one in your life.
All my best -
Refuse2quit
Trigger warning perhaps -
Hello everyone - hope this finds you well!
I have seen a lot of posts lately about whether or not a victim "should" have felt pleasure during the sexual acts that were being performed upon them; posts both in incest and sexual abuse forums. Thus I am cross posting this in both forums to get coverage of it.
One of the largest hurdles that survivors face is that they feel shame, blame and partial responsibility for the abuse because there was a facet of pleasure involved, or at least in many abuse cases - for some of us that was a large facet, for others a small or minor facet.
It really does not matter. Most abuse starts with a "grooming" stage - this is well documented in decades of research concerning childhood sexual abuse. During that "grooming" stage, there are various tricks that abuser's use and the consistency of these practices has always made me feel like there must be a "How to succeed as a Sexual Abuser" handbook out there somewhere.
The initial stage of grooming for abuse rarely starts with outright violence and mayhem - although in some cases this is true, the majority of abuse survivors speak of having been almost "seduced into the abuse". The abusers will try various little tricks - "I have a secret and I will tell you, but you cannot tell anyone" or "let's play a game that is only ours to play" or in my case, my abuser showed me hardcore porn then said something like "This is what adults do - you want to see if your an adult? - but, you can't tell anyone because YOU will get into trouble." This after hinting about it for weeks and "wetting" my curiosity to almost unbearable limits. He was very good - but he had a lot of practice it turns out, with other children around him (and he was only 12 year old when he started to abuse me!)
Back to grooming - once the abuser has the child's confidence and secrecy forged, then they can proceed in any way they want - though most do the progressions slowly into other forms of abuse, it can be almost instantaneous that they move from "friend" / "family" into "threat" / "violator". At those stages fear is the motivator to stay quiet and keep the secret - fear of being blames, worse treatment, loss of the relationship, etc.
And as a child I felt pleasure with the abuse. Sex is pleasurable - regardless of the age. But a child's mind is not formed enough to be able to set limits, determine right from wrong or understand such concepts of boundaries - that is why, regardless whether you eventually started to initiate sexual encounters with the abuser - you are NOT TO BLAME. You were working within the framework of a child's mind - and looking back with adult eyes and perspectives can make you feel shame and such "because you were asking for it" or you see yourself as a "willing participant" - this is just bullshit. Your abuser trained you for this. Had you not been abused, you would not know what to even ask for.....you had no part of the abuse, regardless of your reactions.
Yes, I almost always ejaculated during an abuse episode - once I was old enough to do so. But then, my body was stimulated and if some part of it had not had a pleasure aspect to it, I would have been less likely to allow the abuse to continue, even as a child, even though my first abuser was very threatening after the grooming stage was over.
There were aspects of pain - in the later stages of the abuse, almost all of it was painful, but I was still excited physically, because these things were interrelated in my child's mental framework.
So, if you feel even the slightest bit of shame or blame due to your possibly enjoying a part of the abuse, or perhaps, in time, initiating it, you are STILL NOT TO BLAME. The more knowledgeable abuser started that train rolling and you were the victim - no matter what your response or reaction - you were still the victim here and just following the normal reactions to stimuli.
As I posted earlier - if an adult entices a child to smoke pot or try addictive drugs and the child wants to experience that euphoria again - we don't blame the child, but the one who gave them the drugs to begin with. Why is sex any different?
So, how many here were "seduced into the abuse"? And if you were, do you feel shame at your actions or reactions to what happened to you? I do hope you do not and if you do, I hope you understand that this is just a part of you that still needs focus and work. By taking ANY of the blame for such, you are letting the abuser off the hook - all this was their fault - none was yours.
I wish I knew how many abuser's in therapy have told me that the child was "asking for it" - but the reality is, a child will not ask for that which they do not know exists.
Sorry, this is so long, but this is a huge stumbling block for many survivors - don't let it remain one in your life.
All my best -
Refuse2quit
thank you Refuse2quit for this post and for the opportunity to comment about this topic. I was groomed when I was an adult. I was 23 when my therapist started it. I was not looking for it and tried to stop it but he convinced me that everything was "normal" and said "he wouldn't hurt me" and told me many other lies that I didn't know weren't true. I feel like Alan246 since it is difficult to reframe every incident that happened for about 5 years and think about each of them as rape instead of "having sex." I can think of it as rape in a general way.
After I confronted my rapist in the mall in front of the public, it showed me that I am not that ashamed, don't feel as guilty and don't blame myself as when I started. Nonetheless, I still have shame that any person or people that know(s) me tell(s) me: "You were exploited by your psychiatrist" or something like that. Then they would ask how did it happen or something or would be curious about it. I think this is something private and if I don't want to talk about it with them, then I won't. My gynecologist asked me if that was in his office. I feel ashamed to talk about it with people who know or knew me in real life who are not survivors. As I have read they may think: "I would not have allowed that and would have hit him or whatever to avoid that." In reality they are making an excuse to not recognize the fact that this could have happened to them too. But they will not admit it and their lack of information about the topic makes me very uncomfortable. Or they would think: "How did she allow that, she was an adult when this happened." Or they may talk about it to other people. I also feel somewhat guilty but I know this was not my fault.
Therapist sexual abuse is something difficult for me to understand since it has the topics of childhood sexual abuse, incest and rape all in one. It is difficult for me to join all of this in one single subject. It was utterly cruel from my rapist (therapist) to have done this damage against me while prescribing me psychiatric pills at the same time and making me believe there was no other option for me. It sounds very strange for me that he was raping me since I as an adult acceded it. I know he groomed me, but still feels awkward. Other therapist abuse survivors that I found via online don't click with me, thus I feel isolated in this.
It also makes me angry that I have to talk about the rape to my therapist and to other people since it was something I thought would remain private.
The conflict between feeling pleasure during sex and understanding our own will to be sexual is an area that many survivors, myself included, struggle with. I was browsing the Internet the other day and came across this: http://www.net-burst.net/hope/abuse_pleasure.htm, which has been an extremely healing read on the topic.
gigglemon, I'm sorry to hear that you've been through so much but I'm proud of you that you are seeking to escape. A counselor once told me when I was having a hard time accepting what I had allowed in my life, that it's easy for me to look back on what has happened in my life and analyze it with an adult mind, but at the time that I made the decisions I did, there was know way that my brain had developed to the point that I had the capacity to make similar decisions. In essence, saying I can't hold myself responsible for the choices I made or what I allowed in the situation given my immaturity. She also emphasized that the best part to focus in on is that as soon as I was able to make a change, I was interested in doing so and made steps in that direction. Sometimes that's all you can do. I'm so proud of you that you have decided for yourself that what is going on is not OK and that regardless of the fact that the male authority figures in your life are dismissive, that you know what you need to do for you.
Alan246, although it may feel shameful to face the reality of what has happened to you it's one of the steps you need to take. It can be extremely difficult to name your abuse and name your abuse(rs). The terms that we use to describe our experiences either help or hinder us to process them. In the past, it may have been advantageous for you to refer to your abuse as "having sex," because that's the only way that you could process it at the time and survive. You are in a different situation now, where, you (although it feels difficult/uncomfortable) want to call things what they are and to start to process what has happened. Be brave. Fear diminishes the more you face it.
Alan246, I can relate to feeling ashamed when telling or by telling what has happened to you. I am a child abuse survivor, it has been over 20 years since my first incident of abuse. In my recent past, I've continued to get myself in relationships where I am misused, abused, taken advantage of, and suppressed. After leaving a set of relationships like that in my life about a year ago, I can finally see that there is an issue with my way of relating to people that allows me to 'end up' in situations like that. At first, I was just ashamed, people said to me and I said to myself, "Why did I do that? How did I let that happen?, Why did I tolerate that?" I've had to learn to let myself off the hook in terms of the recent past, to feel my real feelings toward the situations (disgust, discomfort, anger, pain, disappointment, injustice) and identify what I can do moving forward to not repeat that behavior. In your situation, it seems you were only seeking help and you were violated. That's not your fault. You can encourage in yourself the fact that you want help and you want change. I'm sorry to see that your totally healthy and admirable effort to heal was met with more abuse. You have a unique challenge ahead of you now, but fear not, the fact that you are sharing at least here, shows you are heading in the right direction.