Sex / Pornography Addiction Support Group
Sexual addiction, also sometimes called sexual compulsion, is a form of psychological addiction to sexual intercourse and other sexual behavior.
For almost 2 years now I have been pretty passionately dealing with my recovery, not anywhere perfectly. Sadly, my sweet wife is still at step 0, "If you get your shit together, everthing will be OK, because I have no problems" I am not really complaining about this just becoming very aware of my reactions of lonliness,and triggered feelings of abandonment, "Your not important enough for me to press into recovery with you" sounds alot like, "Your not important enough for us to notice that you are being sexaully abused"
Anyway, last night, for the first time in these two years, I watched my wife rage about her anger and dissapointment, and waving her finger at me assuring me that she was going to continue punishing me for making her feel this way" And I was not defensive, I just listened. I felt scared and queued up the abandonment, and rejection, but I did not believe those things...or her threats for that matter. I just listened.
"Stop babbling and get to the thank you part", I hear from the croud.
Here it is, I have spent the last year, watching Trina bravely attack this head on, SheenRe burn her husband in effagy, Calimom express her confusion and affirmation of her husband, LoriLou raking me over the coals then lovingly turning the compassion switch on when she met my 10 year old abused boy, all while sincerely loving soberone, and many other women come and go baffled, beaten, betrayed, terrified, deeply wounded, and angry.
Of all the things in my recovery that gave me an incling of empathy for my wife, it is you beautiful women who have helped me begin to understand the pain this has caused her. And I did not even once compromise my standard of never being alone with a woman other than my whife..because of the anonyomity of this little castle of hope we call DS.
So, from the bottom of my little black sexually addicted, and greatfully recovering heart, Thank you. Thank you, Thank you.
Anyway, last night, for the first time in these two years, I watched my wife rage about her anger and dissapointment, and waving her finger at me assuring me that she was going to continue punishing me for making her feel this way" And I was not defensive, I just listened. I felt scared and queued up the abandonment, and rejection, but I did not believe those things...or her threats for that matter. I just listened.
"Stop babbling and get to the thank you part", I hear from the croud.
Here it is, I have spent the last year, watching Trina bravely attack this head on, SheenRe burn her husband in effagy, Calimom express her confusion and affirmation of her husband, LoriLou raking me over the coals then lovingly turning the compassion switch on when she met my 10 year old abused boy, all while sincerely loving soberone, and many other women come and go baffled, beaten, betrayed, terrified, deeply wounded, and angry.
Of all the things in my recovery that gave me an incling of empathy for my wife, it is you beautiful women who have helped me begin to understand the pain this has caused her. And I did not even once compromise my standard of never being alone with a woman other than my whife..because of the anonyomity of this little castle of hope we call DS.
So, from the bottom of my little black sexually addicted, and greatfully recovering heart, Thank you. Thank you, Thank you.
I am getting ready to get to work but I had to respond even if only briefly.
This is awesome! In fact, you are experiencing the development of a healthy protective boundary. You can actually tell yourself that your wife's anger is not about you and BELIEVE it.
From the tone of your post I can also see that you felt the empowerment that comes from that experience. The protective boundary keeps you living "in action" rather than "in reaction."
What you might also experience is that her attitude softens as she realizes that the anger is no longer affecting you.
That's Great!!
soberone
Your path has been tough...I probably wouldn't have faired as well as you if I had your experience in life...particulary that of a sexually abused child to the extent that you were abused. That is such a horrible thing to endure and to bring to reckoning. It has brought you so much pain...that thing that someone did to you when you were unable to protect yourself. I'm so sorry for that. You can't know how sorry I really am. I share some of those things.
Thing is...like with my H..and myself...you were a child Choose...and someone hurt you inside...they took advantage of your innocence and trust. They were so wrong to do that. And it had nothing to do with you...it wasn't about you...it was their madness that hurt you. Give that person their feelings back. Let them carry the burden of their behavior. Let them be responsible for that behavior...because they are responsible. You were to young to know what to do. It wasn't your fault.
If I could, I would bring that person to reckoning with the law of the land as it should be. And I would defend your innocence and pain. I would put that person in the seat where they belong...responsible...for hurting an innocent. But, it's too far back and can't be done that way.
However, it can be returned to that person...taken off your shoulders...where it never belonged. You can do that...return it to them...and lift it from you. You were innocent...and taken advantage of because of it. You aren't responsible for that...nor the confusion it instilled. Send it back Choose...theirs to keep for themselves....and theirs to rectify.
God will be their holy judge. He knows their heart. Let him deal with them as He will. He said that injuries must come to his little ones...but woe to the one that brings that injury...as it would be better for him to be cast into the sea with a weight on his neck. If we search far back enough...through you...through the one who hurt you...through his past...and on and on...what might we find? God knows. And He is just.
I do have to say that our psych said at some point my H needed to listen and validate my feelings regarding his behavior. Even if he didnt understand them...even if he didn't feel that way...even if he could never feel that way. He probably didn't intend to incite those particular feelings, he didn't even understand where they came from. But, at some point he had to accept that is the way I feel in response to his behavior...whether my feelings are right by anyone's standards...they are mine...and unique to me...part of me.
I learned myself that I can't injure someone and then expect them to feel as I think they should...or react as I would..or should. They will feel as they feel.
Same for me toward my H. I don't know how he feels...I'm not him. And I can't understand how he feels. I can only accept that he feels that way. And if he feels pain because of my behavior, then I have to validate and accept that HE feels that way, even if I don't understand it. I try to walk a mile in his shoes through you...through Charli, Soberone, Bill and others. Tough business for both sides...the truth on opposite ends?
I too am grateful Choose. I am grateful that some of the men here, like yourself, are willing to expose their feelings, and bat around the origins...and share the info of both sides...back and forth. To share and to listen and evaluate. Sharing thoughts, emotions, fears, failures and successess. Hoping to understand a mystery.
And, I am even more grateful that some do get better...maybe partially due to the exchange here...and see a different view. And I can see a different view too. It provides hope...a very tenuous thing...and hard to grasp or hold.
I know that you find my refusal to sit in denial as punitive. It isn't. It is refusal to sit in denial of the facts as they are. I do fear denial on my part. I do so want to believe the man I love will be honest with me...no matter the cost...seeking my interest...as I once did for him. And because I do want that desperately...I fear I'll deceive myself...the worst infraction...and cause myself more injury.
Whether I can sift truth from the sand of deception, I'm unsure. I can only refuse to deny my own feelings and to hide my fears. Or to still my questions. Or to bat against the walls of ego and faith. And, I also refuse to accept what is unacceptable behavior to me. Were I to do that...what would I be...where would I be? A person with no foundation? No boundaries? No beliefs? What good would I be then?
I came here to this particular site to experience just as you've said, the other side, their views, their feelings. And to offer them some of the our side. Because if their wife has anything in common with me, she doesn't necessarily divulge her true feelings, for many reasons. I didn't in the past. I was afraid to. I'm not afraid anymore.
And so, I offer a view of the other side...to you...to others. So, if they haven't thought of it that way, or heard of that side, they can...and maybe they can "understand" their wife's feelings, and validate them...and be sympathetic. Because if we can't do that...there is never any true healing. Or so I believe.
What I say here, I don't consider punitive, I consider it a gift...a view...of another side...that is far too often not voiced. Words and feelings to be valuated and considered. Possibilities. Maybe easier to speak of than with the high emotions connected to the one we love so much...and where there is much to lose...and injuries that might never heal.
So don't be too angry with me Choose. I'm truly not against you...I'm for you. And, I hope and pray that you will fully recover from the injuries of your youth, and from the injuries in your marriage that may have been inadvertently caused. I just learned that sometimes it isn't so good to be too caring, or too silent, or too supportive of what should be stopped...and that is all.
Thank you for your post. It's a beautiful thing.
As for your wife and her anger...well your tuning out her anger instead of realizing she is angry at you for hurting her in the same way you were hurt is not very compassionate. If you want her to stop being angry for hurting her you will have to communicate to her that you do understand you made her feel just as used and betrayed and hurt and powerless as you felt as a little boy. Someone hurt you, you suffered and you became addicted as a reaction and you want her to understand. Now you hurt her, she suffered and she became angry as a reaction and she wants you to understand.
If you cannot see her anger and do not care to attend to it, she feels your lack of compassion is just the same as your comment about you not being important enough to press into recovery with...she hears that she is not important enough for you to understand her anger and make amends to her.
You are doing some hard work and if you keep it up and somehow make her see you do care about her anger, that you know you hurt her and she did not deserve it...I think that is what she means when she says she has no issues...I think she means it was not her fault that you did bad things...mayhap you could let her know that you do understand it was not her that had the issues that caused you to act out...maybe then she could get to the point where she will understand that while she did not cause the acting out, her raging at you when she is angry instead of being calm about her anger is something that does make you want to act out?
I too want you to know, I am not angry at you, just trying to give you a wife's opinion and insight. Your insight to your side helps me understand. I am proud of the work you have done to get this far...I wish I was as lucky as your wife to have a husband who is at least admitting his problem and taking action to help yourself. Do you show her these messages from other wives? I don't know but it might help...Good luck and keep telling us the other side..we want to know your feelings and understand them and hope your wife can come to understand them too.
I think you misunderstood Choose's point. The issue has nothing to do with his caring about her anger. It has to do with his being able to recognize the difference between Choose understanding that he made a mistake/he is human, and his believing that he is a worthless human being.
You see, when an addict is broken, he goes in to deep toxic shame. What Choose is recognizing is that his value as a human being is not affected by either his acting out or his wife anger. This spiritual awakening allows him to see his wife's anger for what is is, a combination of anger from her own trauma and functional anger from Choose's acting out behavior.
What this means for Choose's recovery is that he is in the process of breaking that shame-addiction cycle. He no longer has to act out to deal with Toxic Shame. He now experiences appropriate remorse that allows him to grow.
The question is now, will his wife notice this and begin her own healing?
soberone
I know we are on opposite sides which is what is beneficial here, us each learning more about the other side, but as a woman who could just as easily be his wife standing there, I know my H has sat there and listened with exactly the same attitude of I'll wait until the babble stops, without hearing any of my concerns, and it only pisses us off more....I am just being honest in order to help him understand how to get her to stop raging.
. If Choose chooses to simply try and out last the babble, she will just keep raging because he still has not heard her. I think it would be better for them both if he could try and hear whatever issue she has and respond calmly...she might do the same and then he would have no need to go into toxic shame at all.
Gosh I know we are all so dysfunctional...it should be so easy to just talk to each other about our disagreements calmly and respectfully and come to a compromise that does not include raging or acting out! It seems so logical and simple..I do not know why we have such a hard time doing it...I know were are SAs and Cosas.lol I pray for all of us that we can learn to have healthier relationships.
Choose you are on the right path discovering your issues and dealing with them and I know we are not supposed to worry about each others recovery or try to control it, but I do not really see how we can have a relationship with someone if we do not try and help them in their recovery by trying to understand their issues. i think one of your wifes issues is that you tune her concerns out and try to wait out the babble instead of addressing it..just my opinion, but if you want her to come along with you maybe you could consider that it would make it easier for her to do that if you listened more respectfully. Good luck.
I am so sorry that your wife is unable to move from anger to healing.
I very much remember my own anger was once very fear based. I feared his SA meant i wasn't good enough sexually, pretty enough, skinny enough, or i was at fault for causing the SA. My h could have told me 1000 times, i just didn't believe him that it wasn't about me somehow.
It only came with much therapy and rebuilt self esteem, that i finally realised it wasn't about me. It was then and only then did i have the strength to empower myself with knowledge on SA and its issues, and origins.
Its my desire to move forward and live this life well, that i always try focus on the positive. I prefer not see people as bad, but as a person who has taken the wrong path, everybody can turn around and choose the right path.
I hope and pray that your wife one day reaches this point also.
Keep strong mate :)
Hey and PM me anytime. I know i haven't been around an awful lot, but i do check in from time to time
Right Choose?
Most of us here already know Choose, his story, his issues and his fight within recovery.....
He is in, and has been in many support groups, as well as here, learning about himself and about his actions and how they have affected himself, his wife and their relationship. His wife will not participate in any counselling, nor support groups, nor learn about anything relating to his issues, and turns it around as his problems...not hers.
This discussion is him just letting go of some frustration, and at the same time complementing the many spouses who have gone on thr recovery ride with their partners, and appaulding them for their growth at the same time. He has been patient and understanding of his wife's hurt and pain.
He is not deflecting blame.
I have to say I got choked up. I feel joy for the hard journey you have been on and grown in wisdom. But at the same time I feel sadness for your wife's hardened heart and refusal to see the incredible mountain you have climbed. Very few SAs and for that matter very few men, no people have gone to such lengths as you have to restore your merriage to a healthy, intemate relationship. For that you are a mountain of a man.
This work we all have done has been such a spiritual journey. I remeber a few years before discovering my h's addiction I had come to a point in my life where I realized I had grown quite judgemental, oppionated as I liked to call it, but narrow minded would be more like it. In realizing this flaw I knew I needed help in this area if I wanted to change. So I made it a nightly ritual to pray to God to have this blemish removed. (Well, we all know to be careful what we pray for right?) Because God did answer that prayer, but not exactly the way I had planned it. It has been a long journey, much like your own. I promise this has a point to it but you'll have to get to the end to understant so I tell you a true story....
I remember the day I found out about my h (Soberone). And I was determined to have an answer from God as to "Why Me!" Why me, after all I have been through!" So I set out on a journey that day (EASTER SUNDAY). A bike ride into the woods to find Him (God). As I rode deaper into the forrest the trees, the wind, it was all silent. I cried out to God and got off my bike to hike deeper into the forest to find Him but all I heard was silence. Until emotionaly exhausted, I sat down by a stream and began to cry silently. Then I heard a rustling in the trees and a herd of deer appeared. The male saw me and turned as if to confront me. Then he began to make this strange hoars noise, something between a caugh and a screach. I had never heard deer make a noise before so I have no idea what he was trying to do. But he must have stood there for about 5 minutes huffing at me, not afraid, like I would expect from a deer. In fact, he looked a bit confrontational or curious, I couldn't decide which. I felt utterly alone in a foriegn world where nothing made since any longer. I left a world where I thought I had the perfect life, perfect family, life was wonderful to a sereal planet where chaos riegned. And in looking for God, I knew the deer must have ment something but I was totally baffelled and confused as to what it ment.
There was no sympathy, no justice, no caring for a mother, a wife who had done all she knew to do to ensure a good life for her children, husband and self according to what she though God wanted. And that is all I wanted to say to God since he didn't want to speak to me.
As the days and months went by, slowly my h, I and our little family began to heal and my heart began to soften. And as my heart began to soften I was able to HEAR God (metaphorically) and know what he wanted of me, and know how this all would work out, and know that I was loved by God despite what had happended to me. And as my heart began to soften towards my Lord and I was able to hear him, my heart began to soften toward my h and I was able to HEAR and understand the horrors of what he grew up in. I even began to see and hear how almost impossible it would have been for him to be anything but what he knew to be....a sex addict, a deciever, maniputaltor and all the typical SA symptoms. But simultaneously, I also began to see that despite these traits he was still the man I fell in love with, he was amazingly enginuitive...as it was he who (like you Choose) found the therapist who offers recovery with the aid of a polygraph and the only therapist to my knowlege who claims to help SAs find complete recovery; he was still a man of integredy....as he has put himself to the fire to burn away all that remained of the cancer of SA; he was still a loving and devoted husband....as he has proven many times over while listening to my rage, sadness and fear and gone to great lengths to patiently support me and comfort me as I heal; and he is still the caring father as he immerses himself into learning how to be a good and nurturing father and finding that quality time that our son's need so much from him; and most of all now he really can be that man of integredy I had once thought he was as he has commited to the PG for life once a year to keep him on the strait an narrow and has turned from a closet athiest to a pationate and devoted servant of God.
What I am trying to say Choose is this is a journey for your wife as well. As your heart heals and then softens then she will find it a safer place to let her heart heal then soften. She has been through a lot. I am sure, like me she is afraid to be vulnerable enough to let her heart heal. What you are doing by compationatly listenig to her rage and sadness is the most loving thing a h can do. You are giving her a safe place to begin the healing. I would never reccomend allowing her to abuse you and with God's guidance you will know if it comes to that. But with your amazing boundaries you have grown you are now such a strong man or integredy that you now have the strength to give her what she needs. Sometimes more is said with SILENCE than wordS.
And on that SILENCE I experienced in the woods that day I now realize God was just lovingly allowing me to get it out. Like the deer he was just listening, that was all. There were no words that could have been said nothing that would have made things better that day...so he just listened...just as you have done with your wife.
Lorilou
Let me clarify this statement.
The Entire DailyStrength Croud says, "Choose, your post title was "Thank you." When are you going to stop babbling and say "Thank you" like you indicated in your thread title.
My wife does not babble. In fact her strategy is to shut down the conversatoin and leave when she gets angry. I am NOT saying my wife babbles.
Just to clearify.
I am still struggling through this Journey, as it has been 4 1/2 months since I found out of my H's addiction, but the support I have found here, and the insight I too get from yours(and others) has been so helpful.
I just wanted to say, I can remember a few days after I found out, I just lost it, I was sobbing so hard I could barely see straight. My H was not with me, and I drove to where he was, and just cried. Looking back on it, I believe that was the day I mourned for what I had lost. My husband never said a word. He sat there and listening to everything I had to say, and when I got up to walk out, and left him there crying, all he could say was he was sorry. Now that some time has passed, I think his just letting me get out what I needed to, and listening was the best thing he could have done. I hope that, for you, now that you are starting to be able to do that, without take on the blame, or getting defensive, it may help your wife begin on her journey.
I wish you nothing but the best. Some of your posts have really helped me better understand my H and has helped facilitate good discussing between he and I, and for that I will forever be grateful. So I would also like to thank you. I can only speak for myself, but you have helped me.
I agree, sometimes Choose's gift of articulations is a gift to us spouses. Because the majority of men are "doers" rather than communicators we wives are left with no other option but to pretend we can read their minds. But then comes along a man who does know how to communicate verbally, passionately and artistically like Choose and it's like he is able to speak for all of those men who have been muted.
Thank you Choose,
Lorilou
Lorilou