i have to agree i think the biology argument's a bit archaic too.i mean so what if guys like to look at naked women because it's in their genes, it doesn't justify porn and ogling women in the street.I get hungry a lot it doesn't mean I go cruising every hamburger bar in town and eating everything.

it's about self control and most of all making the relationship the priority, seeing value in relationships. That seems to me the most significant problem, relationships just aren't seen as valuable and porn seems to reinforce that. I'm talking about the porn addicted guys here who lose complete perspective on life and their relationships through porn.

The attitude i think comes first - respect and value women leads to relationships, commitment and good intimacy versus disrespect and devalue women leads to seeking out things that reinforce that attitude such as porn.

Attitudes need to change!

Dreamchimes, i so appreciate what you and others have said. I do see that people feel empowered to do whatever on the basis of the demands of biology.
Seems to me they are actually taking advantage of the fact of tolerance.
A person can choose to ....just say no. But why do that if there is no comeuppance? Some people see no reason to check themselves and do not agree that there are tradeoffs.....
OTOH, addiction is not ..... reasonable.

To Kelly and Boydie:

Look, I am in no position to say that the whole genetics thing is not true, and starfish, I am not taking you on here, I am merely stating my "findings" or observations. Yes, it does kinda make sense saying that males will have a wondering eye, being a "hunter", looking for a female etc, BUT, I have also founded that some men, men that has looked at porn, men that has had normal sexual relations etc, does not look, even with the wife not being there, going out to the pub etc, not looking, why? because they dont want to, they know what it may invite, and no, they dont have a huge challenge not doing it. That is so not where I am, but I know that is where I want to be. That to me is motivation. So in my personal opinion, though it might be daft for some people, I want to have that ability, it's like changing a pair of pants, while you already have a nice pair on, it's only by choice and not impulsive or compulsive, whatever the difference maybe....

Hi Kelly,

Your post here is good timing for what Im working on.

I am fortunate enough to have had my marriage restored and it is now better than it ever has been. It didnt look like I would ever be forgiven. It didnt look like she would ever get over her nightmare and see me as her best friend again. She even trusts me more now than she ever has. She tells me so. Like I said; I am fortunate. I also worked my ass off.

The problem I have is; I have an addictive compulsion to feel the shame for every stupid thing every stupid man has done. I am not all that proud to be a guy. I cant disown my own gender. I myself cant become a man hater, there is no answer there. When I hear what a man has done to their wife and best friend it just makes me sick. I want to get a baseball bat and go have a little talking to the Mr. Man. I have worked on this before and here it is again. Its so screwed up of me to attach myself to the shame of these guys. I have felt like I need to make atonement for their stuff. I know I have no right to think I could do that. I cant flatter myself that way. I learned that from my previous attempts at this. I also had to ask myself again if I was sure that I had forgiven myself. I had. I asked myself again if I missed the shame somehow. I hadnt.

If Kelly bleeds then I bleed. If boydie is pissed then Im pissed. (Get the bat and tell me where the bastards live)

There is for me at times a Halloween Funhouse Syndrome. Inside I hear the screams of the spouses and its their night for revenge alright. Who would dare deny them that?

I have only acted out a few times. (its been about ten months now)
I recently had made a reply in the little mens group here and said that instead of watching the women go by, I had started watching the men. It went from not only watching a guy but catching him personally with a practiced look. My eye contact with him and my look made them uncomfortable. (my heart rate 145) It escalated to mall walking and stalking married men sitting on benches, who were waiting for their wives to come out of the stores. I would sit directly across from him and we would both wait for the girls to walk by. I was probably more eager then he was. My perfect fantasy was hoping a guy was going to say something to me. (my heart rate 178) I already knew what I would say if they did. The last evening I went to the mall, I was sitting across from a buddy-buddy kind of guy. I was feeling it. I knew this was my guy. I went through the usual; catch him with my full eye contact, backing off on the look. He says to me of all people: nice ass huh? I jumped up and screamed at him. What? Do you know her or something? (Heart rate: off the chart) I spooked him good, he bolted and I suppose he will remember me for that awhile.

After that day, I realized how sick that was and chose to do something healthier.
But it can still be can like; if a guy is thinking about panties and his heart rate increases then I can think of baseball bats and get it going. Of the three times Ive measured my heart rate Ive found that I can do 78 to 144 in a little over four minutes, just sitting thinking about it. If a guy likes a certain little fringe on those same panties then I can picture the fine hand crafting in a good baseball bat. Ive never played baseball, dont even have a bat, and I dont hurt people. I dont have any bad feelings about the men I actually know and talk to. They have faces. I hadnt heard of anybody going through anything like this. Fortunately this mode I get into only comes around every few weeks. To be honest; I had to be feeling it a little now in order to write this.

Anyway Im really working hard on it this time and if you have some insight here, please share it with me.

Arthur

A very small foot note? Kelly has encouraged me to write about this. Her kindness in this wouldnt be a foot note though.

SheenRe? You had asked recently; what if there was something I needed to learn from the spouses? That caught me hiding from this. Thank you.

The only word I can think of for you Shamless is GRAND. I think it's a great word that is under used. I love when I see one of the male species really put himself out there. Wow, would I have loved to seen you scream at that egomaniac in the mall. It's funny, since I became so attuned to hubs porn addiction and wandering eye, I observe guys all the time when they don't know it. What I feel like saying to them is "what the hell gives you the right to ogle another person you leacherous dickhead". I've not done it yet, but knowing me I probably will.

Hats off to you Arthur - I think you're GRAND.

Thanks Kelly,
The funny thing is I could have had the same release If I had used a "blow up" "mall guy". I acted out. I actually premeditated a perpetration and had a victim as odd as that sounds. It was the height of my compulsion. It was perfect for my adreneline junkiness. I don't need to think that crap anymore.

The biggest thing that's has helped me is that you are my friend. We have something that is so in common that I can't even descibe it. Well yes I can. It would be about healing and moving foward.

Arthur

Hello Kelly,

My suspicion is that your husband had some deep-seeded issues that had been building over time. It got to the point where ideas led to obsessive thoughts, and those thoughts became actions. This is not something that happened overnight.

Your husband is the one who holds the key to his actions. The key is inside of him. He would have to be brave enough to admit when these behaviors first became an issue for him and WHY. Without that level of openness and honesty, there really is no way to understand the driving force behind your husband's actions.

What happens in my line of work is that the man will reach out for help once he becomes sick of himself. A man will feel that he is wasting days, weeks, and even months of his life on an addiction. As he gets older, this waste of life will frustrate him.

I hope this helps put things into perspective for you.