How does your husbands masturbation hurt you? If he masturbates, he denies me sex on the days he masturbates and for a week or more thereafter--that simple. Because of his age (50's) it's not like he can get erect like he once did even with Viagra. I never know when he has masturbated til days/weeks pass and there's been no sex.

How does your husbands masturbation make you feel?

Rejected, humiliated, lonely, unworthy, unattractive (can't compete with him jacking off to porn), pissed at times as he does it in secret and won't admit when he does it. I just know from lack of sex as he'll deny me if he's spent a good part of his week jacking off. It's not like this problem is something I can tell my family and closest friends as they would totally reject us as a couple and tell me I married a loser. I know this from the few I did choose to tell.

If he were open and honest, and even asked your permission, would your feelings be different?

Nope. He would be doing it to porn and that is something I won't tolerate when I'm here 24/7 to fulfill that need even if his reasoning for masturbation seems logical to him. He has told me in the past it's easier and faster to masturbate than get in the mood for real sex as real sex is more pressure for him..like me dealing with porn and his masturbation doesn't make me feel pressure. I could be 100% perfect and he'd still play with himself, make up some excuse, refuse to quit, etc. and try to gloss it over til I've gone weeks with no sex and become the royal bitch from hell and tell him put out or get out.

Would you say yes or no?

He wants me to masturbate when he's not around so he feels less guilt about doing that and denying me. I don't want masturbation. I want real sex or he can play with himself and let my Queen come out and live with my anger/rage.

Would him asking give you some empathy for his sex appitiate and make you want to take care of his needs or would it irritate you?

I'm the one being denied sex so he can masturbate to porn. You go 2-3 weeks with no sex and find out your partner masturbates so he/she doesn't have to take more time to please you or do the actual sex act itself. It's a selfish act and I'm sorry but marriage is a selfless act, not a selfish one. Marriage is a partnership, not living like a single person when it's convenient..porn, masturbating, etc. He tells me all the time if all he wanted to do was look at porn and masturbate he wouldn't have gotten married but as little as we have sex at times I think he's married to his hand and his computer screen. It's a lot to swallow as we've not even been married 2 years yet and my sex drive is like that of a dog in heat.

I highly doubt he'd like it if the tables were turned and I denied him sex because I masturbated more than had intercourse with him. Even my therapist says if he masturbates it should be in front of me to spice up our sex life, not to give him an isolated hidden secret orgasm away from me.

Would you react differenty at different times in your cycle?

Having a menstrual cycle has nothing to do with my sex life. We've had sex countless times while I was "on the rag" so he can't use that excuse to keep on masturbating and he's even done oral to me during that time so ...I dont' buy that one bit! TMI, ha ha. We are having a lot of issues now that I know how deep he's in to porn and masturbation.

Honestly Choose, I can't control my spouse. I can only control myself. I let him know what I do and don't approve of in our marriage same as he does me. It's his illness to be a masturbating porn addict, not mine. My addiction is food and it's a lot harder to give up food cravings as food is necessary to live and thrive, unlike porn and masturbation.

I think it's great you are trying to regain control of your life and the addictions in it. I just wish my spouse would take that first step. At least then, I'd see some progress but he prefers to keep things the same and have me walk on eggshells and face my rage when I've had enough.

I'm a fairly new guy to this site and I had to post to this topic.
I tried to M with my wife turning me on once. It was thrilling while I did it but after she told me that it was weird. I felt as close to dirt as I could. It was the worse thing I had ever done.
She told me that I could watch porn, but she had to watch with me. I was excited about this at first but then she began to encroach on my 'private' time. The process wasn't so relaxing and I never got that horny...Actually, watching porn never makes me horny. The guilt takes care of that...
I would rather stare at my wife's feet and then wink. Have her come over and we kiss. A huge sloppy kiss. Now that is a turn on...
My wife feels the same way the women do on here. She feels that...lol...'Mr. Whiskers' is replacing our sex life. I really don't want her to feel that.
On the other hand, being honest with my wife. Admiting that I am a pervert has not got me anywhere. It makes me feel trashy and lazy. I feel like I'm not pulling my weight as I sit and play with myself...

TO CaliMommy:

I have been a cronic masterbator since age 15 and I'm not 31. I've lost one relationship of two years, but now i'm engagged as of Oct '08 and she wantes to break it off due to feeling neglected over the past 2 years or so. I've been seeing a psychotherapist at $170 an hour (very expensive), but helpful.
An addiction to porn and masturbation releases the same neurotransmitter chemical dopamine as CRACK does its a drug like euphoria. I almost fainted when I read this for I have heard of so many stories about crack addicts on TV, word-of-mouth, etc. And now Im basically one. Guess what, porn/sexual addiction is HARDER to quit. Do you know why? Because crack is funded monetarily (i.e. if you cant afford it you cant smoke it) subjectively speaking of course. With sex, you have it all of your life and cant just stop it because you need to be intimate with your loved one.

Question: How do I get my girl back after she feels so neglected. Yes, I have gotten her back before and promised her I wouldn't neglect her, but its so hard to stop. Again, THIS TIME I WILL STOP For EVER!

Help!

Just one quick thought that i see from reading pretty much all of the responses, which were good by the way. HOWEVER, and i know this is gonna piss some off, but i'm all about toughlove in many cases.

Many of you say that your SO's masturbation or porn viewing makes you feel betrayed or inferior or unattractive. May i ask WHY you allow them to make you feel this way ?! Also, on top of that, why in the world would you stay with someone who makes you feel that way not to mention the fact that you have to keep guard dogging them t make sure that they do or don't do something ?

Also, not ALL us men think of other women or the women in the porn when we are with our SO's. Nor do all men find their women unattractive after watching the supermodels on porns.

I just don't care for when all SO's are generalized simply based upon the fact that it's the way THEIR SO's have made them feel. The ONLY time i used to fantasize about other women with my wife was when i was with the stbx in the last year or two of our marriage, and it was because she had no sex drive and no interest in sex, DESPITE all the counseling and talking amongst ourselves. To be honest as well, HER constant lack of drive and desire almost started to make me question my own abilities as a lover. UNTIL i decided that i deserved better and got the hell out of the marriage and am now with a wonderful and MUCH more compatible woamn.

Well it took 8 days and 19 replies, but i knew you could not stay away from this honest discussion. If there was anyone who could rationalise masturbation it is you...lol

And reply 17, your wife must love you, she is certainly trying her best. I'm a little miffed that you don't appreciated her efforts, after all she's doing you complain your missing out on your 'private time'. I'm guessing you think this is her problem, not yours?

And back to the original poster here, Choose i hope you are doing better mate.

My wife has done many things for me. I appreciate a lot of thing about her...
This is completely my problem. She will have nothing to do with it. When I talk about it she changes the subject or ignores it. I am on my own...which is fine. I can do this.

Noone is "rationalizing " anything Trina, i'm stating plain and simple fact and truth as to why most people masturbate. If i SO feels inadequate or undesired in any way, then yes, they need to tell their partners that, HOWEVER, why are they allowing someone else to dictate how they view themselves ? When i was forced to masturbate during my lat marriage i told my stbx that it was because she had no sex drive, NOT because i found her undesireable.
My simple bottom line here is, don't let others dictate how you feel about yourself or let them bring you down. Her lack of desire and drive was starting to make ME feel like something was wrong with ME. Therefore, i got out of the marriage and soon learned that was NOT the case and i am a happier person becuase of it.

Matthew,

I am beginning to discover that underneith my addiction is a deep sea of stuff that I must work out. My poor beautiflul wife is sadly along for the ride, hurting, feeling like she is not enough, when in reality, she can never hope to be enough to fill up my addictive driven needs.

You seeem to be expressing patience with your wife and her avoidance. This is often painful. But maybe you are asking for something your not getting when you masturbate. I sure am.
S-groups often say Horny = lonely. I think lonely comes from lost of places, but mostly from our seperatetion and brokenness as we try to connect with God.

I bet your wife never avoids things you are very confident about. She just trusts, accepts and enjoys that she does not have to worry about that thing. This is not defensive, it is affirming.

My need for affirmation is a driving force behind my addictive acting out.

Recently, when I feel affirmation from my wife, it completely satisfies my urges to act out. This is because the underpinned need has already been met. Then it does not really matter if the specific sexual driver is met or not. This is where spiritaul and emotional sex happens.

For example, I would love to have sex right now since I have not is several days, but I have to go because I know how frustraiting putting the kids to bed is for my wife so I am going to go help her now.

See ya.

Thanks for the encouragement Trina.

Oh. My. Gawd. LH - until you REALLY talk like you understand the addiction, can you please stop justifying the addictive behaviors. Yes, I know, I know....you'll say you understand addition. But really?? Sex Addiction? Because you claim you don't have a problem here....you simply "like sex a lot".

"why in the world would you stay with someone who makes you feel that way "

Because the addiction is distorting the men we know exist...the men we love. We're not that shallow, LH. For the record, MANY women HAVE left their husbands...the men who won't change. Ironically enough, those same women don't visit this site because of guys who spend their time justifying everything. They've experienced enough of that.

"Also, not ALL us men think of other women or the women in the porn when we are with our SO's."

My problem isn't with all the men...it's with my husband, who DID confess to heavily fantasizing about other women during sex with me. Don't belittle our pain, LH, simply because you're not the one who caused it.

"I just don't care for when all SO's are generalized simply based upon the fact that it's the way THEIR SO's have made them feel."

Ummm...huh? The women on here are referring to the way their SA husband's have made them feel. It seems to be generic across the board, so I think it's slightly fair to generalize what an SA's behavior does to a spouse. However, don't take anything to heart, LH, esp. since you're not an SA...

And to Believe 7 - I have NO DOUBT kicking the masturbating habit is excruciatingly hard. Absolutely no doubt. However, if my husband was addicted to crack, I wouldn't want that to be his excuse for not quitting. Same with masturbating. He has proved (even to himself) that there is no "healthy" level of masturbating for him. He will always take it out of control. So he had to quit. And with his addiction well under control, he is a much better man...and I am better for it.

All the best to you.

To be honest M is not all that pleasurable for me. It is full of guilt and kind of messy...just being honest...
Hiding when and where I do it makes it worse. Why should I go through all this trouble when I can get sex when I want...
Well, that's not quite true. My girls stop us many times but lately we have done a good job of working around it...

I hear alot of availability of wives. What if that is not the case. There are times my needs drive me to pretty severe emotional pain and my wife, as well as most wives I would assume are just not available "anytime" Is it reasonable to expect that your wife would want to take care of your sexual needs as often as you want her to?

Wives?

The one thing I cannot stand, even at this point in my husband's recovery, is when his desire for sex comes out of a desire to "fulfill his sexual needs" (Okay, to his credit, I have not felt that in a loooong time.)

Maybe that is the problem? You have to want HER, not the sex. I assume you do, but does she know that? Do things to make her happy without expecting sex. No women wants to give sex out of obligation. Start "Christian courting" her. Haha. Bring her flowers, take her out to dinner, write stupid poems, leave sticky notes in surprising places with cute notes on them, etc. Just don't do it with the motivation for sex...do it to win and seal her heart. We LOOOOOVE to feel wanted, pursued.

When you gave up porn, you gave up something that shouldn't have been in your marriage in the first place. So don't consider that brownie points for winning her heart. Start acting like your 10 miles behind the starting line and the goal is to still come in first place. Good luck...

What fantasy land do you live in Cali ?? First of all, you don't know me so who are you to say that i don't have an addiction? Just because i've found ways to live with it that others haven't ? The doctors that have rteated and diagnosed me have commended me on my handling of my addiction. Just because it doesn't work for you or because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it wrong. Yes, i love sex, and i'm neither afraid or ashamed to admit it ! I'm proud that i have had full disclosure with both of my wives and every other relationship i've been in.
While your SO's are dealing with it now in adulthood by cheating on you or sneaking the porn or jerking off to fantasize, i was living with it as early as 7 years old !! Was i raped or abused ? No, thank God, but i DID have to teach myself how to keep my urges and thought and feelings "under control" while living being raised in a VERY strict catholic household, so don't presume to tell me that i don't speak from experience.
Yes, i've seen the addiction destroy marriages. However, by the time i was old enuf to consider marriage, i had already seen my doctors and learned how to live with it and that's where i came u with my full disclosure rule. It became an even WORSE problem in my last marriage, when despite full disclosure, my stbx, before we got married, understood everything i told her and about my porn collection and assured me that intimacy would not be an issue with us. ONLY to learn that she didn't fully disclose HER serious depression NOR her history of not managing her medication or condition. So, i had to live with three years of almost no sex (despite her assurances) and yes, i'm very proud of the fact that i never strayed despite the temptations. I waitied until other factors in our marriage caused us to split before i was finally able to persue and indulge myself.
As far as a SO just needing to have their sexual needs fullfilled being wrong ?? Are you a female human being ? If you choose to only have sex with your husband out of love for him, then that's your business of course, but to tell someone that wanting to have sex with your spouse simply because you're horny is wrong has GOT to be amongst the wildest things i've ever heard.
One of the very basic urges in history is physical attraction, so i would like to believe that we all at least find our SO's SOMEWHAT attractive and so it's PERFECTLY healthy to come home and tell your SO "I want you right here and now!" And, unless for some reason you can't, that can be some of the greatest sex you'll ever have. I erally can't imagine a greater mood killer and coming up behins my gf in the kitchen as she's doing dishes from breakfast and just grabbing her hips and telling her that i wanted her and then have her ask me "Do you want me for me because you love me or do you just want to get needs fulfilled?"
Sorry to say this, and i've heard it from MANY women as well as men, but one of the matrimonial duties (and i hate to use the word duty) is to provide sexual needs to your spouse. Doesn't mean you gotta give it up every time they ask, but as one great female bartender friend of mine told my stbx when we were still together.."You have to take care of your man in that department, cause if you dont. someone else will."
So, we can debate these issues till the cows come home, but i come armed with 37 years of living and dealing with it in every way, shape and form. Sure, there have been you and a couple others that have disagreed with or even bashed me for my views and ideas, which is fine, i have a much thicker skin than most, however, like i've stated in the past, i've had more people come to me for help and advice and have told me that i've helped them with my posts and speaking to them privately, so it's well worth it to me.

Emasculation does not work. It is based on the same need for control as the powerlessness of sex addiction.

Calli describes the concept of being desired wanted and pursued. This is a big part of why porn works for men. There are these women who fill this need by wanting to have sex with us without asking for anything in return. Prostitutes do the same thing. Fill our sexual cup without any obligation to be responsible or to do the work of wooing them. The fantasy is not wanting to be sexually desired, the fantacy is to expect to be sexually desired with no responsibility.

So as much as I want my wife to be at my sexual beconed call is a fantasy, wanting to be pursued 100% of the time with no responsibility to respect my appitite for sex is an unrealistic expectation as well. So if you take the carnage of my bad behavior out of the equation, we are pretty much coming from the same place. "Love me and fill my needs without condition, weather I fill yours or not" Is what we all crave.

Wanting to be pursued from a place where there is no appitite for sex is not reasonable. Neither is it reasonable to want to have sex available without the pursuit. So, the answer? Both people put the others neeeds ahead of their own. Ideally, she has sex because he needs it, and he romances her because she needs it. Anything short of this is where all the problems are. As soon as we are selfish, we loose.

Now, can I do this? My wife at this point says a resounding "NO!" but time and time again, right when I really need her to show up, there she is, beautiful, loving, serving. She is winning this one by far at this point! I hope I can figure out how to love her as much as she loves me. But then again, i doubt she is capable of respecting me as much as I respect her. Thats her battle.

LH - So it appears we're simply fighting semantics here.

I completely agree with you - men have a much stronger desire for sex than most women, and as wives we ought to be aware of that and compensate. I 100% agree.

However, speaking from where I came from, my husband wanted nothing more than to ejaculate inside of a female and wa-la - I happened to be there. I felt like a whore...only I wasn't getting paid. And why was he so horny? Because he was getting his visual bank account filled by trashy porn women.

My point was not that a man perfectly court his wife and then patiently get turned away when he wants sex. I was simply stating that, if the addiction has left her feeling the way I felt, the man is being a bit selfish. If you're expecting her to fulfill your needs, isn't only fair that you be doing the same for her?

And thank you for clarifying your story. I hadn't heard all of it yet, and it clears up a lot of fog. I just disagree (and perhaps we'll need to agree to disagree here) with you on the way you handle your addiction.

P.S. Choose, you worded my thoughts perfectly. Thanks!