sounds like you need some professional help ,nobody is a doctor here we just give some advice from are expirenced we try give suport to each other ,when you have violent sex fantasies and harm your self for pleasure goes beyond what anybody can do for you here ,i think you are in right track you dont want to do these things that why you feel bad afterwards , you will get all the support you need here is not easy but not imposible good luck !!

Hi asilvercloud,

I'd like to first of all welcome you to Daily Strength (D.S.) and to this panel/board. I hope you find the understanding, acceptance, and support you are looking for here.

From what you've shared, I'd guess you probably are a sex addict, but I'd like to be sure, just so we know you're the right place. After all, if you aren't an addict, we won't be of much help to you. So, I'd like for you to do me a favor, please. I'd like for you to take an online test called the "Sexual Addiction Screening Test". It can be found on either of two (2) websites:

Sex Help
www.sexhelp.com/

Society for the Advancement of Sexual Health
www.sash.net/

On the Home Page of either site, right at the top of the page, you will see the question, "Am I A Sex Addict?" If you will click on that question, the test will come up for you. As I said, you can take the test right there online, and then submit it for grading. In just a few seconds, you'll know for sure if you're a sex addict or not. Just for your information, a score of 11 or higher usually indicates that a sexual addiction is present. Assuming the test says that you are an addict, and I'm pretty sure it will, come on back to this site and let us know. We can give you some guidance, support, and direction at that time concerning what your next move might be.

The little you shared in your posting about your S & M involvement makes me think that as a little girl, you were probably either raped anally, or someone sodomized you with a bottle of some sort, a broom handle, or maybe even a vibrator or dildo. They also physically abused/tortured you while they were providing sexual pleasure. That would explain the clothespins and the toothbrush. You see, a sex addict will repeat the abuse they went through as a child in some way in an attempt to make some sense out of it. It's a therapeutic principle called "repetition compulsion".

We are a lot like the old computers in this respect. (I hope you know more about computers than I do. I do good to be able to get into my E-mail account). With the old computers, you'd feed all kinds of information into it, which would be stored in its memory. Later, you would ask the computer a question, and it would go to its memory bank to look for an answer. Well, it would look and look, but not be able to find an answer because the information requested hadn't been programmed into it. The machine didn't know this, however, so it would cycle through its memory banks again and again and again, looking for an answer, yet never realizing it would never find anything. We are like that in that we repeat our abuse over and over and over again in an effort to find out why the abuse happened to us, but that information isn't in our memory. We don't have access to the reason why, but we don't realize that, so around and around we go, again and again. Recovery is about programming in new information to our minds, into our memory, into our computer so that we can answer the question, "Why?" along with a bunch of other questions such as, "Who?", "When?", and "Where?" Recovery is also about learning new and better ways to deal with the memories of that abuse, and with the uncomfortable feelings and emotions that come with the memories. This is one place where a sexual addiction support group can be helpful.

In a support group, you will have all kinds of people from many different backgrounds: men and women, young and old, Black and White, as well as Asians, Latinos, Native Americans, Arab Americans, etc. You have professionals, and blue collar folks, rich and poor, a whole cross section of Americana, along with a few folks from overseas. Everyone has had their own life experiences, and has their own story to tell, but they all have one thing in common, they are all recovering sex addicts, and therefore, they will be able to relate to whatever issues you're going through or problems you may be having. And you'll be surprised at how often one of these folks will have a suggestion or idea on how to handle whatever you're going through that will prove extremely helpful to you. That's what we do, we try to share our experiences, strengths, and hopes with one another with the goal being that we will all get well. That's why we're all here,

And as long as I'm talking about support, let me tell you that there are currently THOUSANDS of resources out there that can help the recovering sex addict. So this disease is far, far from hopeless. (I should also mention that there are probably HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of resources available for the incest survivor). Nobody much talks about sexual addiction, but it's a huge problem. Estimates are that somewhere between 6% and 10% of the population here in the U.S. is sexually addicted. That's 18,000,000 to 30,000,000 people, half of whom are women!! So you are not alone, and there is hope. So go ahead and take the "Sexual Addiction Screening Test" and let us know what it has to say. Good luck!!

Thanks Charlie; that is a very informative response. I am just now recalling some memories of the abuse, but I don't recall (nor do my siblings recall) any pain being inflicted on us; but I don't know; maybe. I scored a 16 on the test. It didn't use to be so bad, but a couple of years ago I went onto a site called Second Life and started to role-play BDSM; my master picked up on the fact that I already had these impulses and cultivated it nicely; attempting and succeeding in an effort to get me addicted to sex/endorphin. *sigh* Someone on the incest support page was talking about having sexual fantasies regarding incest and wondering if other incest survivors had that and I told him about some of the things I did on Second Life. That is what triggered this response in me. The things I did to myself are things that I did for enjoyment with partners while role-playing on SL. It was impulsive for me to post on here. Part of me finding pleasure in posting something that I knew would get to some of you; enjoying that power. It's a way of venting anger I guess; perhaps taking my power back. I thought, you should not post this, but then did it anyway. So, in that, it serves as an example of my compulsive behavior. I hate to admit it, but this is a real issue. I get the "repetition compulsion," thing; I do that. I know I watch my dad rape my mom as a child; Ive always had rape fantasies
Any luck on the reprogramming?

Okay, a score of 16 means that you are a sex addict, so we can go from there. Before I do, however, let me say that if there was no sodomy going on with you when you were a little girl, perhaps you saw your mother being sodomized by your father, or maybe you happened to view some type of BDSM video when you were young that had an affect on you. Somehow, since the S & M is part of your addictive behavior, you were exposed to this kind of thing when you were young. Of course, depending on how old you were when you saw your mother being raped, that alone may have been enough to do it, particularly if you father was being rough with your mother, which he probably was if he was raping her. Anyway, let me get on with some referrals for you which will help you "reprogram" your "computer".

For most folks, the best place to begin a recovery program is by learning something about sexual addiction. As you already know, addicts engage in their behaviors of choice in an effort to block out memories of childhood abuse, abandonment, and/or neglect, or to numb out so they don't have to deal with their unpleasant feelings and emotions. Recovery is about learning new ways of dealing with these things. The easiest way to learn about sexual addiction is to read a few books on the subject, so I'm going to suggest three (3) for you to take a look at. The first one is titled, "Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction", by Patrick J. Carnes, Ph.D. This is the first book ever written about sexual addiction, and in my opinion, it's still the best. Dr. Carnes has written maybe a dozen or so other books on sexual addiction, and maybe somewhere down the line, you can read a few of them. Of particular interest would be "Don't Call It Love", and "Contrary To Love". These both deal with some of the issues/topics that would be covered if you were to go into an in-patient treatment program for sexual addiction. For now, however, I just want to give you some idea of what sexual addiction is all about. So the second book I'm going to suggest you read is titled, "Lonely All The Time: Recognizing, Understanding, and Overcoming Sex Addiction for Addicts and Co-Dependents", by Ralph Earle, Ph.D., Gregory Crow, Ph.D., and Kevin Osborn. Now these two books will give you an real good understand of what you'll be dealing with, and will also give you a solid base on which you can build your own recovery program. However, there is a problem with them. They were both written by men, and therefore don't look at the uniquely female problems sexual addiction presents for you ladies. Therefore, I'm also going to suggest that you read, "Women, Sex, and Addiction: A Search For Love And Power", by Charlotte S, Kasl, Ph.D. This will give you the female perspective on this disease, and yes, it has been accepted as a disease by the American Psychiatric Association and will listed in their next edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental and Nervous Disorders which is due out next year. You might be able to find these books in your local library or neighborhood bookstore, or you can order them directly from: www.amazon.com.

After you've read the books, you might want to take a look at an online program called Recovery Nation (www.recoverynation.com/). This is an online treatment program of sorts that works very well with sexual addiction. You can work the program exercises right there online at your own pace if you'd like, or you can work with a mentor for a small fee if you'd prefer.

One resource that many addicts have found useful would be one of the Twelve Step groups (similar to Alcoholics Anonymous) that exist for sex addicts. There are five (5) groups that I'm aware of that together sponsor hundreds and hundreds of support meetings every week all across the U.S. and Canada:

Sexaholics Anonymous (S.A.)
www.sa.org/

Sex Addicts Anonymous (S.A.A.)
saa-recovery.org/

Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous (S.L.A.A.)
www.slaafws.org/

Sexual Compulsives Anonymous (S.C.A.)
www.sca-recovery.org/

Sexual Recovery Anonymous (S.R.A.)
www.sexualrecovery.org/

Each group deals with sexual addiction a little bit differently, but you can learn all about that when you go to each of the group's website. And when you're on each website, look for something called the "Where and When" listing. This will be a catalogue of sorts that will list all of that fellowship's registered group meetings, indexed by state to make it easier for you to find a meeting in your area. If you find anything listed that would be convenient for you to attend, please consider going to a few meetings to see what they are like and to see if they might fit into your own personal recovery support system. Groups like these are a great way to get some local support, and also to pick up a few new non-sexual friends along the way. If you can't find anything listed that would be convenient for you to attend, given the times and locations of the meetings, then check the telephone groups and online meetings. Information on both of these will also be on each of the websites I've listed for you.

NOTE: JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION, YOU WILL USUALLY FIND A LOT MORE WOMEN ATTENDING THE SEX AND LOVE ADDICTS ANONYMOUS (S.L.A.A.) GROUPS THAN ANY OF THE OTHERS. SO YOU MIGHT BE MORE COMFORTABLE ATTENDING ONE OF THESE MEETINGS. SOMETHING FOR YOU TO CONSIDER.

Now some folks don't like the Twelve Step groups because they are always talking about their "Higher Power", and any talk about God turns these folks off. If you find yourself in this group, then consider instead checking out a group called Rational Recovery (www.rational.org/). This group is actually kind of anti-Twelve Step, but their program works really well. What they do is first challenge, and then change your thoughts, feelings, or emotions. And when any one of these things changes, a whole long list of other things also change: your core beliefs, personal values, thoughts, feelings, emotions, and behaviors. And it is the change in behavior that results in recovery.

Another option some addicts chose is an in-patient, residential treatment program for their sexual addiction such as I mentioned when I was talking about Dr. Carnes' books above. While there are lots of programs available, I only feel comfortable recommending four (4) of them because I know these folks all know what they are doing when it comes to sexual addiction:

Pine Grove Behavioral Center (Hattiesburg, Mississippi)
www.pinegrovetreatment.com/
(888)-574-4673

The Meadows (Wickenburg, Arizona)
www.themeadows.org/
(800)-632-3697

Sierra Tucson (Tucson, Arizona)
www.sierratucson.com
(877)-445-4058

Del Amo Hospital (Torrance, California)
www.delamotreatment.com/
(800)-824-4936

While treatment is a great choice for dealing with sexual addiction, there are two (2) possible problems you need to be aware of. The first is the time commitment involved. These programs usually last for five (5) weeks, and some people can't afford to miss five (5) weeks of work. The other potential problem is the cost. These programs can cost up to $ 100,000.00, and some medical insurance policies won't cover expenses such as this. So if this is an option you would like to consider, check with your medical coverage provider concerning payment before you sign up for anything.

If you like the idea of a treatment program, but can't miss five (5) weeks of work or afford the out of pocket cost that such an option would involve, you might wish to consider the one week "Intensives" that these treatment centers offer. The Meadows offers them on a very regular basis, and the others do as well from time to time. If you'd be interest in something like this, check with the various treatment centers to see what they have coming up.

Now as I said, there are lots of other treatment programs available, and if you'd like to check some of them out, you can take a look at their ads that appear on three (3) mega sites that deal with sexual addiction:

Sex Help
www.sexhelp.com/

Society for the Advancement of Sexual Health
www.sash.net/

Sexual Recovery Institute
www.sexualrecovery.com/reso...

Each of these sites contains a wealth of information that might be of interest to you and which might help to support you in your recovery efforts, so take your time and check each site thoroughly.

The last suggestion I'd have for you concerning your sexual addiction recovery would be for you to get yourself into some type of counseling A.S.A.P. If cost is a concern, let me know. There are plenty of resources out there that are free or very affordable. Many recovering addicts find that they get their best results by working with a Certified Sexual Addiction Therapist. If you'd like to check these folks out, you can find a listing of some of them on two (2) of the websites I just gave you, Sex Help, and the Society for the Advancement of Sexual Health. No one ever overcomes this addiction without some counseling along the way. This addiction is just too involved to try and go it alone.

Before I close, I wanted to give you just three (3) resources for you sexual abuse/incest issues. First, there is a book and a workbook titled, "Courage To Heal", by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis. They were both written for female survivors, and they are WONDERFUL!!! I can't recommend them too highly!!! They can both by found at your neighborhood bookstore, or you can order them from: www.amazon.com. The other resources are Twelve Step groups for survivors of incest (but they define "incest" very broadly so it can include teachers, babysitters, coaches, scout leaders, and even your priest, minister, or rabbi). The first is Survivors of Incest Anonymous (www.siawso.org/), and the other is Incest Survivors Anonymous(www.lafn.org/medical/isa/home.html). Despite the similar names, these are two totally separate and autonomous groups. You will probably have to E-mail them to find out if there are any support groups that meet in your area. They do things this way to protect their group members from any potential perpetrators who might try to infiltrate their meetings. However, information on the telephone groups and online meetings should be on each of the websites.

That's all I've got for now. Sorry to be so long winded, but I had a lot of information I wanted to give to you. I hope something here helps. If you have any questions, or I can be of any further service, please feel free to let me know. Take care of yourself, and best of luck to you. And hey, don't be a stranger here on this panel/board. We'd all love to hear from you again, if nothing else to let us know how you're doing. Peace!

First of all, I am not a sex addict, but I almost get the feeling you are trying to act out here. You were very explicit indeed with your thoughts and I do not know if you meant to be because you are venting or because you are wanting to get some kind of attention. Please do not take me wrong in what I am saying. I do feel for you and you do need help if you are a victim of incest. No child or adult deserves such pain! I would say tone it down a bit though, simply because there are those in here that are trying to deal with addiction and your elaborate explanation of what you did may not be good for some. Also, just because someone likes domination does not mean they have been molested or are addicts. No person here is even close to talking as if they are in some kind of orgy, that is you twisting your feelings into something to fill a fantasy. Sorry, calling it like I see it.

Thanks again Charlie for the informative response. Im feeling quite over-whelmed right now because I am becoming rapidly more self-aware and I can see that I have major issues to deal with. Then there is the enormity of information Im being provided with; support groups, therapy, books. Thank you for the resources, I think that I first need to address the incest issue because I think it is the root of all of this. Because I was abused I have great inhibitions when it comes to intimacy yet violent sex pushes me past those inhibitions. I have no middle ground. Im either completely uncomfortable and turned off, or breaking down and relieving all the pent up sexual energy in an intense/explosive way. So, I need to become more comfortable with intimacy. Im starting by reading a book called Sexual Healing Journey; it seems to address my issues specifically. I may move on to some of your recommendations later down the line; I might also do some inner child work and then of course there is spiritual reading (like I said over-whelming) but am keeping the info you provided; thank you.

Of course Im so complex; there isnt just one cause and the things I do in response are not done for one reason either.

Some of my S&M compulsions have to do with adult relationships, but there is something that lead me to that. My dad was forceful with my mom and violent was present; to what degree I do not clearly recall. She said he treated he like a whore; he believed she was his to use as he pleased and did so. He also pinned me down in play causing me to struggle and fight against him. He liked making me angry, making me fight and reveling in my powerlessness. I think he did the same my threatening me with a belt, it was more about his sexual satisfaction than punishment; though I believe there were more threats than actual punishment. It was more about hearing me beg him not to spank me and reminding me that I was powerless. Since this is the same guy who came in my room at night yes I made the association as a young child. There may be more that I dont realize; its slowly coming together.

Zoocitygirl: Totally! I am venting and I have these impulses too. Attention? Yes, that is part of it. Humiliating myself is also part of it. This is an embarrassing post; Im ashamed of it, in a clear frame of mind I look at it and am disgusted. I wish I could take it back; pretend I dont have an issue, but I do. While Im over on some other forum giving someone else advice about their own self-destructive behavior, their own way of escaping the pain I dont want to deny my own. How can I deny my own if I do something like this? It sits among the rest of my posts to remind me of my own weakness. Hiding my weakness does not help me deal with it. No, not all incest survivors are masochists or sex addicts, but I am an incest survivor, a masochist, and a sex addict and its all related. (my dad was a sex addict too)

Perhaps in addition to other things, Im being spiteful. I have issues.

Regarding the orgy; thats really how I think. When I first realized I needed to address my sexual addiction I read about sex addicts anonymous and that is what I thought, sure, great, go to a meeting with a bunch of other sex addicts; that will be helpful! Part of my problem is how I think about sex and men generally; I have a lot of hostility and like to use sex to have power over them; use them like I was used. I have a problem.

It isnt one I learned without some help though; my dad, my brother, my neighbor, a neighborhood kid, my sisters boyfriend and everyone in my teen and adult life who took advantage of my vulnerability before I tuned it around on others in spite. I hate what this has done to me.

Hi asilvercloud,

Let me just respond to a couple of things you said in your last posting/response. You are correct. When you first get into recovery, it all can be extremely overwhelming. The sexual addiction, the incest, and the codependency (behaviors that result from growing up in a sick and dysfunctional family) are all things that will need to be dealt with at some point. For most sex addicts, the sexual addiction is where they start their recovery journey. The reason for this is that this is what's killing them the fastest. But there are no hard and fast rules about that. You need to go with what feels right for you, because after all, you're the world's leading expert on you! Trust your intuition and follow its lead. It will never steer you wrong.

As you also know, self-awareness is always the first step to healing. So keep your eyes, your ears, and your mind open. There is always more to learn when it comes to recovery. It's a never ending process that eventually turns into a growth, self-development, and self-actualization project rather than a recovery project. When you reach this point, you'll know you've entered what they called Stage II Recovery, life beyond the addiction. (A man named Earnie Larsen has actually written a book called Stage II Recovery, and another one called Stage II Relationships. Both of these books are available from www.amazon.com if you'd ever like to take a peek ahead and see what's in store for you down the road a bit).

I'm actually amazed at the insight I've seen in you, both here on this panel/board, and on the incest panel/board. You have a very good sense of where your issues lie, and you are definitely headed in the right direction as far as your recovery goes. All I can do at this point is congratulate on how far you've come to date, and wish you well in your future recovery journey. Take care, go in peace, and may God continue to richly bless you in all of your endeavors!!

ASliver: I do get where you are coming from. I myself have those issues and think about sex with women and 3somes, but my Fiance has clouded my judgment on everything. Years of being lied to and being made feel less than some porn ho with horrible issues herself, has made me wonder why I bother helping him at all. Because I am so kind, I find myself helping others and allowing them to bring me down in the process. I do know who I am though and I know I will not allow some man with issues, or anyone else completely take my soul away and I WON"T.

I have been told I could be an enabler, but I hate that term. Just because a woman/or man is compassionate does not mean they are trying to enable a person. Obviously I would not be seeking help if I were one and he would not be in therapy. I call it like I see it, its just some things we can never prove. I just have feelings and that is what bothers me most. Point being, you can never change what happened to you, but it IS NOT your fault. Its not your fault you were born in some screwed up environment. If you better yourself, you are showing them that they are the losers to have ever put you through this. You need to stay clear of any of them and begin a new life of bettering yourself in anyway possible. It won't be easy, if anything it will be hell on earth, but nothing good or worth fighting for is easy.