I cant provide advice. I am not qualified. But i can tell you I feel for you and feel your pain. It took me a long time to relaize that pornography is not only addicting, it degrades self esteem and the over-stimulation numbs and dilutes our view of the real world. The thing that hurt me the most, was the lost time i could have spent with my spouse and children. I cant think of this without crying. If your husband could only see what he is missing by wasting his time in that dark self indulgent world. God bless you and my she give you strength for the tough decisions you will inevitably have to make.

last night I told him about this site! It felt like a big step forward to me... and was a little easier than I thought. he got defensive, left the room and slammed the door... but only a little slam... not a big dramatic loud one :). And he came back to bed with me later...didn't sleep on the couch or leave the house like I thought he might. I am refusing to remain passively silent on this anymore... Ive done that WAY too long. But trying to suggest healing in a supportive way...not judging...Thanks again for support, it means much.

Go to the group this week EmTheo. Walk in the door and accept the unconditional Love, acceptance and affirmation that the group format is designed to facilitate. You will not be judged, you will likely be nervous at first, and everyone there will sit silently listening to anything you say, even your deepest darkest secrets, with compassion and understanding because they they have felt or done the same thing.

I think the groups are a place we addicts and co-addicts can go to practice the right thinking thinkgs like we can be accepted, we can trust, there are safe people, we are not completely lost. We can be accepted.

It takes alot of humility to walk through the door of a 12-step meeting, but this very fact is why you should go as soon as you can. The truth is that it takes alot of humility to love and be loved, to be assertive and not agressive, to be compassinate and not judging. The groups are a wonderful and safe place to practice all of this.

ChooseaUs: Yours was the push I needed. Got home from work, read your reply, and went right back out the door to SAnon.... still processing but I'll go back...:)

The usually suggest attending at least six (6) S-Anon meetings before deciding if the group is right for you. Please take that advice and give yourself a chance to get a feel for the group, the people in the group, and recovery in general. Having a support group that's local can often be a God send. And in addition to the group meetings themselves, you should have the names and phone numbers of the various group members that you can call on if you need to talk. (That should have been a part of the newcomer packet they gave you. If you didn't get one, please ask for it the next time you go to the meeting).

First of all, I'm sorry that you are suffering this in your relationship with your H. It is really a drag.....huge! I know and understand at least part of your feelings.

My H had said something in the same line as yours did. I'm a man...and I won't apologize for it. I told him that my definition of MAN and his were radically different. I told him that I saw a man as a strong protector of that which he loves. A protector of his wife and his children. And if he is failing to do that...then to me...he is not a man at all. I told him that any little boy can sit in the corner and play little games in secret. But, a man is not a little boy and should have control of himself and the impact he has on those he claims to love. I told him that he bought the nonsense being sold by society about men being weak and innefectual. But, that I don't label men that way. I believe that they can be strong and be what they should be if they choose to. I respect their strength and when they fail, I don't respect that. You see...I know men who do fulfill the place of a man....and I know it can be done. He just wasn't one of them. And, I told him that he had earned my disrespect for his childishness. I told him that I could be the same as he. I could just lust instead of love too. We are all capable...men...and women. I know many women who are respectable and I know many who are even worse than my H was. So, I refused his excuse and his MAN label. But, that's me. I'm a realist.

I guess I would have to ask him about how he defines himself in marriage. Does marriage mean that you just continue to lust about others? And, if so, does he expect you to do that too? Are you just supposed to accept that he loves to look at others and lust? And should you be doing the same? And why be married then? I don't get that part. Why be married if you haven't yet chosen a mate? Tht seems a venue for an unmarried person who is looking for what they want in a mate...or just imagining what they can't have...or something...not sure what. My H did that too. Made the excuse that he loved me but just liked to look and fantasize. Greaaaaaat! I told him go ahead and continue...but stay away from me...because I don't want you touching me while you wish you were elsewhere. Just go elsewhere and do what you need to do. I want a man who wants me and if that isn't the thing here....you need to move on and find what works for you. I won't get in your way...or interfere with your sex life anymore...just carry on....alone. But, you see that's me and were all different. You have to connect to you....and what YOU want. Do you know what that is? If so, plan to get there. You're fully equipped to make decisions for yourself...not for him. He is making his own choices. You need to make yours.

"man as strong protector..." That gives me something to think about because ever since we have been married I have pretty much supported our family financially. I think after 15 years of that it may have contributed to his identity crisis. Not that I regret my career for one minute. I think the reality of the fact I was supporting us made it easier for me to fool myself into thinking I was strong and not dependent emotionally on him... but the reality there was that i was dependent and let him walk over me. I found all kinds of excuses for him and in my mind made SA behavior no big deal. I don't know if I ever gave him room to be strong in any way (financially or otherwise) or even had any kind of expectation for it...

Let the fur fly after my following thoughts;

Your delema regarding 15 years of financial provision in your marriage, and the whole dicodomy of respect visavie not being worthy of respect, is a very sad simptom of ...wait for it... feminism.

There is a book called love and respect. This book sets the premise that as much as women need unconditional love from their husbands, men need unconditional respect from their wives. It is very easy to say "of course you should love unconditionally, that is SOP for human beings, but he has to earn my respect. If he does not, I am not going to give it to him. But I dare him to act in an unloving way when I am throwing pots at him because I am so angry!

SheenRe said "I respect their strengtha nd when they fail, I don't respect that." So what does that say, respect is conditional on success, on being perfect? The truth is that women need love like air, so to conditionally give it causes our wives all kinds of pain. The same is true for men We need respect like we need air. It is a gigantic burden to be expected to love unconditionally, AND earn the respect we need as despireately.

All of this to suggest that 15 years of providing for your family has probably beaten all expectation or hope of respect out of him. Why try to be strong when any attempt will be responded to by "Here honey, eat this apple, its good."

OK, I may still not be saying it right. It is a well known tenant that the concept fo entitlement keeps people from excelling. (Welfair state) This is all too common with men whos wives give up on them and decide that if they do not do their husbands job, then it will not get done. This attitude short circuits Gods ability to teach him the character that failure brings.

I am not saying you should not work, especially if you thrive in your carreer personally, this situation should be supported and encouraged by your husband, but it should be on equal footing with your decision to stay home and take care of the family. Your work should never be necessary to provide for the family.

If you feel that because he is not doing his job, so you have to, this constitutes a lack of trust in God, and a lack of repect for your husband. Lots of theologans suggest that Adam was there watching passively when Eve ate the apple. It is clear that Adam was passive, and his curse was "Because you have listened to your wife..."

The point is that you are on the right track considering how your inertia and initiative have gave him room to be passive, rather than face the pain of his situation, grow out of it and excel.

The last words you used were "expectations" I have heard recently that it is very powerful to change that word in both attitude and action to "Expectancy" Expectation = watching for someone to succeed or fail.

Expectancy is hopeing, and anticipating his success. It is very powerful for we husbands to see our wives respond to our failures with love and admiration, in that our struggle did not cause us to sit down and give up, but to see the expectancy in their eyes that the next light bulb experiment will be the one that works and changes the world.

Way too much of a response, but I hope you get some hope from it.

Also, By the way, have you been to your six s-anon meetings yet? How is that going for you?

ChooseAus: You said, "unconditional love from their husbands, men need unconditional respect from their wives. It is very easy to say "of course you should love unconditionally, that is SOP for human beings, but he has to earn my respect." I do not expect unconditional love from my H, or anyone...I expect to earn it. If I am a hateful, mean, lazy, shrew, would I expect him to love me. No...not at all, nor anyone else. And, conversely, if he is acting in ways that earn disrespect, then he should be willing to accept that I do disrespect him. Lying to me, earns disrespect. Deception, huge disrespect. Lust, more disrespect. I wanted love from him, yes. I did my very best to earn it. I was kind, considerate, thoughtful, gracious, generous, and the like...and what did I get? Not love. Disrespect for my efforts, my beliefs, my morals, my goals, my life, and my person. And so, one begets the other. Disrespect earns that in return. If I treated him badly, I would expect the same. If I cheated on him, I would expect him to do the same, or divorce me. And so?

I just wanted to point out one thing and that is that most, if not all, male sex addicts are still little boys emotionally. Like the late Michael Jackson, we too suffer from a case of arrested development. Basically, we are emotionally cripples. This may also be true for women, I don't know. I don't want to speak for the fairer sex. But it is true for men.

To expect a crippled little boy to function as a man is ludicrous. We simply don't have the required tools, abilities, knowledge, or expertise. We missed too many life lessons as we were growing up, and at best, we are playing at our roles of husbands and fathers. One of the goals of recovery is to learn how to be emotionally literate so that we can rightfully assume our roles in life. We also need to learn the necessary skills so that we can protect and nurture our loved ones. All of this can be done, but it takes time, and a tremendous amount of effort and courage.

The ladies need to realize that we are coming from a place of wounding, and know very little about being a real man. We are learning, and we are growing. Please have patience with us, and don't give up. We'll get there, eventually. What we need from you is your support, your encouragement, and your love. I thank you for all of that.

Thanks Charli: Yes, I do see what you are saying...that he was an emotional cripple and childish. That seems obvious to me too. And, in a weird way, I do feel sorry for him. What a weird and convuluted life to live. And, I can't imagine how much I would disrespect myself were I to treat someone who loved me that way. But, sympathy doesn't make a marriage. And sympathy doesn't give me back my life. And sympathy won't fix what happened inside me. I did love him. I did give him 28 years to learn. But this time, something broke all up inside me. He broke something that he can't fix and neither can I. The best thing I could probably do for him is just leave a note and leave for good. Because, even if he is really fixed, if he is really sincere, if he could forget all that he has seen, if he could love me with a true heart, I think it's too late for me now. He went too far...and touched something intangible inside me that is broken beyond repair. And, I'm not sure how to live like that...with a big hole in my chest...and only regrets for memories. To tell the truth, I would rather have died than to see what I saw.

Sometimes, one of the hardest things to do is leave a relationship, especially one as long standing as yours. But sometimes, enough is enough, and as you say, the damage is beyond repair. The hurt can never be healed. The best thing you can do is end the relationship and move on with your life. That is an extremely difficult thing to do, but it sounds like maybe you've reached that point.

Are you ready to take care of yourself now? Do you want happiness, joy, and peace in your life? Are you ready to make a new life for yourself? If so, then you're ready to move on. Get yourself a good divorce lawyer, and do what has to be done. Sure it will hurt, and you'll go through a grieving process, but in time, you'll heal, and you'll be so much happier, and healthier out on your own. Something for you to think about.

True Charli: I have thought that myself for a really long time now. And, I have talked and talked to my H about the way I feel. He just refuses to give up and let it go. He just keeps requesting that I give it a little more time...him a little more time...to try and reinstate the love I had for him. And, for whatever weird reason it breaks my heart more to watch him cry and makes me feel guilty when I just want it over. He is trying so hard to make it right now. I know he is. That makes me feel so bad that he couldn't have done it before he broke the thing. I thought that by now he would realize that it isn't going to work and that it is a huge detriment to me...if not him. I don't want to hurt him Charli. But, I don't want to hurt anymore either. And it's way weird to try and be intimate with someone who has hurt you repetitively, especially in the romance arena. How can one forget the pain, when it is reintroduced all the time in an effort to be intimate? I can't get over it, because to feel intimate I have to be vulnerable, and I can't feel vulnerable because he hurt me too much to risk again. What a viscious circle. I keep trying to just let the companionship flourish and leave the love thing alone. But, he is convinced he can win it back and it hurts sooooo much when he tries. He pleads that he loves me and it rings weird and hollow in me at times and others I know it's true...but don't know in what way. I have no desire to be his mommy or nurturer. I already filled that role somehow I think. I want to be loved as a lover and a wife...and because he has hung on so desperately to the lust for so long, I guess I just can't put the two together like he did. He says the love word and it scares me silly. I guess I have to be willing to hurt him in return and just leave without a word. And that hurts me to be so cold. Bleed or freeze....which is the choice. I don't know. I haven't been able to make that call yet. Maybe he'll finally give up too and then it will be easier for both of us. He killed enough to break the love...but not enough to break the entire connection. Maybe that's my job...and if so...I hate it. I have never intentionally hurt another person in my life...and I hoped to never be guilty of such. I'm afraid if I do...that I can't forgive myself...and that might even be wore traumatizing to me in the longhaul. Not sure yet.

Thank you for your insight though. It helps to talk to someone on the outside and other side about it. It seems to hurt him so to talk about it...he just wants it to go away...and I wish it could too. But, I can't seem to make it go away this time...and so we both suffer...and I look for tangible answers...while he tries practical approaches. He is the most wonderful person I know other than this issue. He has always had the ability to calm me inside in some way. And now, he has uncovered the ability to create caos and confusion. What a plight.

I guess, in the end, it will come down to a choice for your husband. Does he love you enough, does he see how much he's hurt you, to say "No" to his addiction and walk away from it? Or will he choose he lover, his mistress, the addiction? His choice will make your choice for you. Which way do you see him going?

Regardless of what other positive qualities he may have, if your husband isn't ready to let go of the addiction 100% and walk into recovery, then staying with him is insanity, and will eventually kill you if you don't get out of there. But the choice is yours. Is he worth dying for? Or do you deserve better?

You've talked with him again and again and again. He knows how you feel. He knows what his behavior is doing to you. Is he making any sort of movement towards recovery, or is he just begging with you not to leave him, to give him a little more time? Time for what, to act out some more?
What do you need to do for your own sanity?

Charli: I believe that he already has....if I can believe anything anymore. Don't know that I can ever know that though. How could I trust anything I think I know...I thought I knew much and I knew nothing. Enough deception and one gets where there is no truth at all. I really did not know that he had continued his practises all this time. I guess I'm really stupid...or simple...or I just can hardly believe in that much deception. I guess the first twelve years of my first marriage...lies..deception...infidelity..took it's toll on my ability to trust and believe anyone. I recovered the ability to trust...only to find that it happened again with my H...and as far as I know...and who ever knows the truth...he has only indulged in porn and fantasy which at this point seems a small pain compared with the devastating affects the deception has created. He seems to have changed. But, the years of deception have taken it's toll on me and I don't think I have the ability anymore to know truth from lies, or fact from fiction, or reality from fantasy. I think that it has broken my ability to believe many things. I guess 45 of my 57 years has been spent in a fake world and now I don't know what to believe anymore. I can believe in only a few things..I can believe in the pain I feel...that's very real...I can believe that I am alive...I breathe in and out...I can believe that the sun rises every day, I can see that. All else, anything but tangible, solid, phsical realities...I'm not sure. The intesity of the shock has removed my mind from reality I think in many ways. Maybe the pain too intense to bear and remain seemingly sane. How much conditioning or brainwashing or shock can a soldier take before they break into insanity? I don't know. I know that I had a psych tell me that I am the only civilian he has ever seen that has true PTSD. I guess I'm like a soldier on the frontlines faced with horrible stress. I'm not sure what that means to me. I know that I seek sanity and reality and something to believe in. I believe in pain...it won't let you ignore it. I believe that lies have fractured my world inside my head and I have great fear that there is no hope for recovery. I'm sorry. I probably can't explain what happened inside. And, I should know better than to reach out for help, that's so hard on others. But, I seek to live again in peace, and I don't know where to turn. So, I talk, and try to listen, and try to reason. I guess I should just stop and realize that it went too far and there is no help or hope. Maybe if I can just accept that I will feel this way, I can bear it better.