That's very, very sad to hear, SheenRe. I'm sorry that your husband, and your ex, hurt you so much, and so deeply, that you are afraid to, or unwilling to risk again to allow yourself to be intimate and truly connect with another human being. But you know your husband and I don't. Maybe, even if you were to put yourself out there, he wouldn't be able to really connect with you either. If that's the case, it's doubly sad because now we have two ruined lives. But maybe that's what sexual addiction has done to you and your husband, turned you into unfeeling, disconnected "things", and not human beings. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful sense.

Born: Thank you for sharing that. A man with porn addiction does take many things away from not only his wife, but himself. Like you said, she did not want to share herself in an open way with you. It actually took the intimate part away and that is where the "love" comes in. Anyone can have sex, but that bond between two people that makes us feel safe is most important. You can be who you want and share your bodies openly, but porn makes us real women feel we are not airbrushed enough like women on porn pics. We then detach ourselves and wish we had a man that made us feel amazing inside and out. Again, I am glad you see this and Im sure you are making her feel better about things, even though it takes lots of time.

Mel: You are right. Anything to a porn addict is not loving. They can see Little House on the Prairie with the woman in her white bed gown and think perverted thoughts. Its a shame really. Sitting near mine and looking at TV with him is like going to the dentist and awaiting a root canal.

True Charlie. "sexual addiction has done to you and your husband, turned you into unfeeling, disconnected "things", and not human beings." I do understand it. I have to. I'm living it.

Doesn't it really do that to everyone? Or is it just that it did that to me? Maybe just one time too many for me? If I'd had a choice it would have been never...much less repetitively. I just wanted a wholesome loving life. But, I didn't get a choice at all until the damage was already done. I do know what you mean about not human. What a horrible mess. What a waste! It IS sad. And, I'm sorry too. More than I could describe. I didn't choose it. It was forced on me by hidden agendas. I can't go back and undo it...or I would.

I do know that he would change all of that if he could. He didn't realize, though I told him long ago, what would happen. That I wouldn't be able to love him as I should. That he would do damage he couldn't repair. That I detest those things, and it makes me ill. And I begged him to reconsider. Well, I guess he did. He considered that it was good for him. And, if not for me, then he'd hide it, and receive my affection too, and none would be the wiser?

I know, I knew, because it had happened to me once already. I had already been the recipient of one of those. And so I knew what happens...to me. And he didn't even get it until "I got it." I "got" what his high was. I saw it. And I felt it. And I hate it. And, I knew it would never be the same for me again.

When that trust for intimacy died in me, I changed, and then he felt it...the change. I didn't feel like woman anymore. I didn't feel loved or cherished or respected. I felt inhuman. And that I was seen as inhuman. And he realized the loss, felt the loss of my intimate feelings for him, the thing I'd tried to warn him about. He did't listen. He had far more important things to do.

I think I really see what happened. Or can express it clearly in words. Hadn't quite been able to do that. I have been used in ways I can't even fathom...and don't want to. That's why my mind went back and altered every scene I had in my mind from our past. Altered to the truth. What I thought was tenderness, affection and love was just lies. Makes me ill. I was giving from a loving wholesome place inside me, but that isn't what I was getting was it? He says it isn't so...but that doesn't even make sense. What else could he say? And how could I believe it even if it were true?

And I will never allow it...not ever...once I know it. I'm not willing...never was willing....and I'll never be willing...to be treated like that. So, no...there won't be any sexual offerings from me any more. I can't imagine how that could be done now. I'll just have to keep my distance there. I have and I will. And, so that's why everything seems so abnormal? Because I am distant that way. I don't trust him there. And, I can't trust him there. Because that is HIS "high" and it is my "low."

We have mended the "companionship" "friendship" parts of our relationship. but the other part...the one I thought was there...the intimate trusting feelings regarding sex are gone. So, I do know that and now I know and can express why. And, why it has been tough to adjust to this "new" realtionship. Because only part of me gets to be here. And only part of him too.

He can't get "high." And I can't feel wholesome. My H calls porn "the great eraser." How very true that is. There is no remedy is there? That's why I haven't been able to find it...because there is none.

It's okay about hijacking the post...the topic fits into my question in a way. I have watched feminist erotica with my h many years ago, and felt it safe territory at the time, but didn't know anything about SA or what it was and hadn't felt the bite of it yet. In my journey learning about SA, I've come to see the people on the other side of the camera as REAL human beings who are children of God and being exploited. Some women claim to feel good about expressing themselves in feminist erotica, feel happy about giving others pleasure and it gives them power. I don't want to judge their point of view. i chose to stop watching it with my h because it feels degrading to me and to the people in it, however they experience it. Even if they are loving creating or being in that kind of soft porn for women, I guess I feel like the danger is just too great that they are going to get in too far, overstep what they are comfortable with and then feel victimized and exploited in a particular moment and what if I or my h just happen to be witnessing that moment and never know it? the film just moves on to the next scene and it isn't significant to anyone else but may have been to the actress who just did the act. The human heart is fragile and precious and needs to be held carefully, respectfully with dignity and integrity. I don't want to watch someone being treated like trash or come near a situation where it is even remotely possible that someone could feel that way. It is not authentic or genuine and feels like a disaster waiting to happen on many fronts.

I've had a couple days to think more about my therapist's comments about if I could let my h have a little porn if it wasn't anywhere near me. Like I said, he wasn't recommending it but we were just starting out and he was keeping all possibilities on the table of discussion. I think he wanted to help me clearly define and articulate my boundaries, just so everyone in the room knew what they were. He has had 18 years sober SA himself and is familiar with the topic. He had a session with each of us alone, and I don't know if he thinks my h is a true addict or just a self-centered compulsive. My s-anon sponsor has been a sponsor to many, many women like me over the years and she herself has wondered/expressed doubts that my h is actually an addict. I've decided it doesn't really matter to me if he fits the profile or not, because I get hurt either way and need to define boundaries and stand up for myself and my rights in this marriage either way. After the last session I talked with him on the phone and he said "kudos to you for standing up for yourself in a healthy way". It felt really good to hear that.

I don't have much to add except to concur with borntorun again regarding the no porn or porn hybrids allowed near me. Specially when it was used in the past to "enhance" the experience with my then partners which further sunk me into the pit that is porn.

I even lulled myself into thinking that watching the mature rated shows in cinemax were okay because they were not considered porn. Until I realized that that too was a lie. So I stopped my subscription to premium channels altogether.

Charli: Regarding feminist erotica, I saw one entitled, of all things, "Doing it For Daddy" . It was anything but life affirming. I think the title alone will give you a hint of how far from feminist is actually was. Mind you, at the time, I was knee deep into my addiction and I found it insulting to women, I only saw the first 15 minutes and I was done. Go figure, uh?

And a little not so funny but true riddle: What is the difference between porn and erotica? The lighting.


Wolf

I wanted to make a quick comment concerning something you said in your last response, EmTheo. You said that some women feel empowered by appearing in feminist erotica. I find that comment very interesting. For centuries, eons even, a woman's main power bases were her beauty, and her sexuality. It wasn't until the 1960's with the introduction of safe, effective means of birth control that women were able to break free of their biology so that they could self-actualize for the first time in history. Until that time, women got married, women had kids, whether they wanted them or not, and women were housewives and mothers.

You now have women who are corporate presidents, CEOs, and CFOs. You have women who are attorneys, physicians, university professors, engineers, architects, scientists, etc. As far as I know, there are really only a few jobs a woman can't do today. She can't impregnate another woman the old fashioned way. You still need a man for that. And she can't become a Roman Catholic priest, monsignor, bishop, archbishop, cardinal, or Pope. But I think a change is coming in that area fairly soon. Maybe not with the Pope that's in the now, but perhaps the next one. With all of these options now open to women, why do you suppose the women who appear in feminist erotica are still playing to their traditional power base.

I guess my final thought on this would relate to something I read in the news concerning Miley Cyrus (A.K.A. Hannah Montana). Here we have a 17-year-old girl/woman who's a role model to millions of young girls, and yet she's making lap dancing videos, dancing on a stripper pole at the MTV awards, and appearing in a just released video in her underwear. There's a tremendous disconnect here. This woman has all kinds of other power bases that are at her disposal. I think her net worth is getting up there fairly close to Oprah's, and God knows she has talent. She's articulate, intelligent, and educated. Why doesn't she emphasize some of this to her public? Why does she choose instead to emphasize the sex? Her parents are supposedly worried that she is going to become the next Lindsay Lohan, because she's heading that way, fast. Why, when she has so much else going for her does she choose to play to the lowest common denominator? Why do women everywhere make this choice when they have so much else going for them? (Not all of them go this way, but a lot of them do). I just don't understand, but maybe that's because I've never been a teenage girl with insecurities coming out the ying-yang and a self-esteem that exists only when I'm the girlfriend of the captain of the football team or the basketball team. Maybe somebody can explain this to me cause it just doesn't make any sense.

Charli: I am going to start a new thread on what you are asking. I have many theories to why, but I did read Dr Drew's book. He is the Dr on love line and celebrity rehab. Please read and give me feedback on your thoughts.

Charlie: Regarding #21. It is taught in by this society. On TV. The radio. Billboards. Advertisements. Everywhere. A woman is a sex object. And if she's not...or refuses to bend to the rules of this society...and is smart, talented, educated, well-spoken, and confident....then she's a feminist B****! I've had at least one guy on here...because I refuse the common standard, accuse me of just that...and that I'm a manhater. So typical...the response.

Actually, not true. I think that men in the society get their stuff too. Well, he's just a man. Men have no control mechanisms. Men only appreciate dumb blondes. Men are weak. I happen to disagree on all counts. I evaluate any man...or woman...on their merit. And, I'm not a b**** either...just assertive.