Resurrection After Rape Community Group
Discussion, question-and-answer, general social support, and journal processing for progress-oriented rape survivors. No crisis, no damaging or triggering conflicts--this is for individuals who want to contribute to collective, cooperative action toward the goal of making actual PROGRESS through rape trauma. Much of this work is based on the book "Resurrection After...
Describe what "courage" means to you. When have you exhibited courage? When do you wish you had exhibited more? Have you witnessed acts of courage that inspire you? What keeps courage from happening?
I was going to add to my earlier statement about when moral nature must be courageous by adding:
obstruction and punishment after tempts. Matt kinda did that with the list of executions. : (
I do not know what type of ritual is being talked about with the Shammai and Hillel.
However the last sentence sums up something I have an issue with about a friends approach to life. For instance; global warming. I think it's important to support the changes the expert suggest and to educate to prevent the negative effects on life and earth. My friend has a different approach and that is "that's just one more thing to worry about" humans have always survived. So for her no matter what happens if some humans are still around it's been okay. I say reduce human and animal suffering if we can see it coming. Maybe this is too big an issue. But after talking to her I start to lose steam on my ideas. I start to say well she's happy, nice house, good husband healthy kids alot of her doing...maybe she's right. She was laughing cause her sister was out protesting. And that she would never protest and I don't' think she makes it a issue in voting. But lately with less connection to ecology community I am doing less myself. Maybe this is a window into where my courage lessens.
Or is this about human suffering for punishment as justice?? Sorry
This gets me in trouble with abusers. The two abusers I was abused by I figured are weak and wounded and I struggle cause I feel I am suppose to treat them as equal and I try until (and this is always what happens) I find out that they were not unaware of what they were doing ... and then I get truly pissed and also take the appropriate action. I really hate this.
This gets me in trouble with abusers. The two abusers I was abused by I figured are weak and wounded and I struggle cause I feel I am suppose to treat them as equal and I try until (and this is always what happens) I find out that they were not unaware of what they were doing ... and then I get truly pissed and also take the appropriate action. I really hate this.
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I don't think it applies. It may be that you're even subconsciously making an excuse for them, by attributing their abusiveness to some weakness or wound of their own. I strongly disagree, and see abusiveness as a purposeful choice born of a belief and value system, NOT as a weakness or wound borne by the abuser. There's no need to hate the concept of uplifting the weak and wounded, because such a concept most certainly does not privilege an abuser.
Courage when you feel embarrassed and panicked. Wow, that is that connection to those emotions. I find that interesting. Now, you may find that silly. Emotions are one of those things that I don't really do or don't connect with so well.
I have mentioned that I do some education advocacy work. Courage in this realm is not a problem. However, it is focused because I feel that all children are entitled to a certain math education and that they are not getting it. I can feel very focused and put myself out there because my objective is well-defined. I may be nervous testifying or meeting with others, but I know my goal. I know that it is the right thing. This is easy for me because it is about an idea or concept backed up by data and statistics. It is not very emotionally based.
Courage when I am putting myself out there more personally. Well, that is a different story. The ability to stand up for myself with my mother which takes some courage in itself that is different. I am panicked. I am more concerned about what will happen to her even though she is an abuser to me. I put myself in the position of being hurt.
I wonder if there are different types of courage. I think that there are many types and some maybe easier than others. However, may be the most difficult are the ones where you put yourself emotionally on the line of being hurt by others. How about that link of courage to those basic emotions?
Alright, for a math/engineering person this is making my head hurt a bit. LOL......
"Social justice is love that becomes manifest in equal treatment of a wounded or weaker other."
And that everyone was working towards this who could. That there was no other.
So when it happened my only thought was "he does not know what he is doing" and of course attributed " their abusiveness to some weakness or wound of their own"
Then each one said something concurs with your view. First one said ...I confronted him once "he only wanted to find out what it was like to be an asshole" and then thinks it's not for him. I knew than to make that statement someone would have to be making a deliberate choice. ????
Second one ... after months of me operating on the aforementioned error of must be wounded and doesn't know what he is doing. I moved out he called me and said he "admired me" cause I was "so resilient" Oh god that was horrible to hear cause it dawned on me ... he knew what he was doing. After that I told him if he ever came by me or went off by me I would find a gun and use it. That wasn't hard for me to say ( well it was kinda tough cause I felt to say it I must mean it) once I thought he was responsible for himself. Before I was just like oh my gosh this poor guy he doesn't know what he is doing and yeah attributed it to some wound or hurt.
Sorry about the gun statement. I used it cause I felt I needed too...he was a threat. Felt I had to stoop to his level to get the point across. I am not sympathetic when I know someone knows what they are doing. It's just sorta hard for me to understand.
But it made it hard for me to understand how to keep my social justice philosophy. I think maybe I can begin to work it into a more mailable framework now.
A lot of that comes from my love-hate relationship with my own religious tradition and maybe with religion in general. Religion with courage is hard to find. Most people look to religion for personal and social affirmation. They want a way to be OK no matter how yucky the world is or even no matter how yucky they feel inside. But religion as transformation? It just isn't what most people are looking for. Like Catroot's friend they want to be a peace with the world as it is. They aren't interested in trying to close the gap between what is and what should be.
My intuitions tell me that much of my difficulty with persistence comes from periodically losing sight of my own hope. Religion comes from the Latin verb religare, "to bind or connect". At its best religion should bind us to the sources of hope and respect for life. I am desperately in need of that kind of religion. I even have a tradition rich in that sort of religion (this could be said of just about any religious tradition, BTW). It is all a question of what we take from it.
Catroot wrote --
I do not know what type of ritual is being talked about with the Shammai and Hillel. --
That's the thing. They didn't debate just ritual. They debated _everything_: from how to light candles on Hanuka to how to define business and marriage contracts. It doesn't really matter whether one is debating business or temple rites. In any action there is always something affecting sanctity, human dignity, and life. Both in the action itself and in the way it influences future action.
When I first started studying Talmud (a collection of legends and debates on action) I was deeply puzzled by how often ethical principles would be extracted from stories about temple ritual and then applied to business ethics or property agreements prior to marriage (yup they had them back then). But the more I thought about it the more sense it made. Why shouldn't the most sacred experiences of human beings reflect our deepest ethical convictions? Did God really make the world so that love of humankind and love of God are in conflict? Of course not.
If there is a conflict, we are the ones who created it. And by extension, we can undo it. I don't even think we need courage for the long haul to make a difference. Just a little tiny sprint of courage can make us more connected. And the more connected we are, the more we hope, and the longer we can run with each successive sprint.
What is courage????? THAT is courage!
Courage to me is doing what needs to be done. There are levels of courage. For some people, just getting dressed and going food shopping takes courage. For others, reporting a crime, or standing up against the opinions of others, that takes courage.
Courage is doing something, while working through a fear. All of us are exhibiting courage while working through our rapes. That is/was something we feared, but yet here we are, working through it, posting here, asking questions, and helping others.
Courage and morality... well I agree with what was said. I do not think morality can exist without courage. If my rapist had morals, well I would not be here today. Did it take courage on his part to do it? I am sure it did. Interesting twist there.
I will think some more and post later :)
Gee, not so sure that I get this last question. I would have been a terrible philosophy major.