I couldn't read all of this. I might have a problem. I am trying to manage it, but...what if you are a woman, raped by a woman? Yes, I know there were men there too, but...without getting all yukky and exposing too much of my pathology...I simply have issues with women in certain circumstances. It is MY weakness. It is a fault in me, in my character -- no reflection at all on anyone else, or their sexual preferences, this is NOT about that.

I trusted James. I came to realize him to be one of the kindest, most respectful...and respectable men I have ever encountered. He treated my pain with Holy tenderness.

I don't think that a woman wouldn't be able to do the same thing...but, I am stating what is worrisome for me. One more freakish attribute. Yay me!

Yay!!!! I am glad that we still get to do it!

We do still get to do it. :)

I know it's not what people had hoped for, but on the other hand there's this issue, too: if any of us is waiting for factors to align to our absolute preferences in order for an experience to be healing, then plan for another 50 years' worth of waiting, ya know? The experience of Survivorhood absolutely REQUIRES the ability to adapt, to change, and above all, to pull every drop of healing from any good experience, rather than passing it by because it's not the specific combination of details we'd like it to be. Do I wish things hadn't gone awry with this? Of course. Can I adjust and feel hopeful for the ministry Angie can bring to us? You bet. It'll be a new experience for me, too, but I'm going to seize and wring out every scrap of goodness I can from ANY blessing that's offered to me, because oh, man, do I need it now. Each of you can make your own choice, of course. For me, having a good-hearted person who is experienced and eager to serve us in humility and dignity isn't something I have so much of in my life that I can let that good medicine slip past.

wth? stupid friggin insurance busy bodies!!

I'm glad angie was able to step in

I think it will be kind of cool to experience the two different people running it, either way I am sure it will be a good experience.

What I said...it wasn't meant as a slur, or a snub of all the effort that has gone into this Matt.

It is me, being honest about an issue I don't know how to do anything about. It is a place, in my history, that I have not found a place to lay down.

I don't use female dentists.

I don't use a female gyn.

I do not want a woman massaging me.

I have issues being naked in front of women, where I used to have no qualms about nudity at all.

I do not want a woman therapist...and I am not sure why.

I do not go to churches with female Pastors.

And yet, I am a woman.

I have no explanation for it. But, for me to come, say nothing, and try to do it...and fail, not only miserably, but quite publicly, it would crush me.

I believe the sweatlodge experience to be one that, to me, was pivotal to my retreat experience. You may be able to state, with a "Therapeutic" certainty, that we should be able to adjust, adapt, change...but, by the very nature of PTSD, those are things many of us are insufficient in. It almost feels like a comment on Survivorhood that seems unattainable to me...that you used the word "REQUIRES" so emphatically, I feel like a failure before I even pack.

".......because it's not the specific combination of details we'd like it to be."

If I am unable to do this, I would like everyone there to know, it is not because the "details" failed me. If I cannot do this, I do not want to walk away from it feeling like I am making some unspoken complaint, or that I am, in effect, having a tantrum because something didn't go the way I knew it to be in the past -- a thing that took me great effort to be comfortable with then, as well.

I want to be able to overcome this aversion I have to females in "helper" roles. But, it was my experience that the females I needed to trust the most in my life...those females in whose hands my very sanity was placed...well, is 'defiled' to strong a word to define what they handed back to me?

If I sound like I am feeling sorry for myself, then I have failed to express myself well. My mother failed to protect me...the female rapist gave very indication of protection of me, yet joined in the worst aspects of my rape. That I can't just shift gears and seamlessly move forward...if that is feeling sorry for myself, then, I suppose I am.

I just don't like reading my entire ability to attain survivorhood is threatened by a glitch in my character.

"Can I adjust and feel hopeful for the ministry Angie can bring to us? You bet."

I would LIKE to be so sure of myself. But, it would be lying for me to boldly proclaim a thing I do not know I can do. It is NOT a statement of any judgment of Angie herself. It is ME, memememememe! I suck at change. I suck at "going with the flow". I simply suck at shifting gears to accommodate a change, when it took so much for me to move toward a thing in the first place. (I loved my experiences...and I didn't skip one round, not either year). Can "I" adjust? I truly do not know.


"It'll be a new experience for me, too, but I'm going to seize and wring out every scrap of goodness I can from ANY blessing that's offered to me, because oh, man, do I need it now."

IF a person cannot do a thing...out of fear, or dread, or shame, or whatever reason they find themselves unable to step up to the task, no matter how noble a thing...no matter the gift that it is...no matter how blessed -- does that relegate that person a failure? Or, is there perhaps understanding to be had for a person with such a disability? I think my needs are well-enough known. But, perhaps some of my flaws as a survivor get hidden amongst the mass amounts of words I use...I hide there, behind the pleasantries and the hopeful thoughts I wish I could claim wholeheartedly. I don't deny my need for a blessing, I just ... I just don't know.


" Each of you can make your own choice, of course. For me, having a good-hearted person who is experienced and eager to serve us in humility and dignity isn't something I have so much of in my life that I can let that good medicine slip past."

Okay...I will gently take exception to this statement. You see, I think literally, as you well know. So, if point 'A' is - I am free to make my own choice. But, choice 'B' is...if said choice is that I am too weak to be involved, then....am I saying that Angie isn't "good-hearted"? Am I now making assumptions about how humble, or dignified her service may or may not be? Am I just throwing away good medicine, if I absolutlely cannot do this with a woman leading it?

Matt...if her voice is soft and encouraging....hopeful -- I will cave. If her voice takes on a controlled, purposed tone...I will be lost in the voice, not the words. If I am "instructed" by her....Oh God, I am so sorry, but...if I don't tell you, then I will hold you to a standard that is unfair, because I will expect you to somehow "see" my distress, when I have decades learning how to cover it up!

I do not want this to be who I am, but it is. I do not hate women. I do not think they have no place doing the things I mention above. But, my life has been stuck in a place that I have finally begun to move away from. If I remained silent, and one other person feels this way, then I have done that one a disservice. If I am an idiot (like I was told for so f-ing many years) then, I apologize for my flaw.

My aversion is an oddity, I know this. But, I don't know what else to do but to beg your understanding...and your forgiveness. . The efforts have been over-worked this year. I know that. I am sad that so many things seem to be crushing down right now...but, I want to be a positive part of this year's retreat. If I am unable to be there (in the sweat)...will that taint the Me that I bring to this retreat?


Please forgive me. I am overwhelmed with a terrible sadness right now. I want you to know my heart, but I fear the things hidden there reveal me to be heartless and unkind. I am so sorry for my feelings, and my fears. I am sorry this sounds like I am offended...but, perhaps I was, ever so slightly. I know what you meant, and I wish you were desribing me in your words...the one who can do it...who can change on a whim. F-ing personality flaws...I hate them!

"I just don't like reading my entire ability to attain survivorhood is threatened by a glitch in my character."

No kidding! If anyone EVER writes or says that to you, smack 'em!

Matt...I love you.

I am in a horrible, horrible funk. I hate my history with women. I promise I will try to adjust my fears to accommodate my desires.

*Snookie punch!*


Leitha, if its any consolation, im with you on the whole unease with females thing. Its easier for me to trust a female more as long as shes not in an authorive relationship. I deal with men better that way, hence all my same dr. preferences you have.


But, whats the worse that happens? Its more awkward for us? We potentially dont get as muvh out of it? We'll be okay... Its just something new :)

& I know easiet said than done. Ive been in that same funk, but you just have to keep thinking it...

I think what you meant to say was, "Oh, shoot! This retreat is gonna force me out of my comfort zone--again!"
so that I can say, "yep!"
so that you can say, "Gee, Matt, thanks for fighting back against the bastards who keep trying to take more and more away from us, by finding some last-minute solution to every crisis, even when it means going without sleep to do it!"
so that I can say, "Aw, shucks."

One possibility for next year: I *could* beat them at their own game by recruiting another of my close high-quality male NDN friends who runs sweats AND is a licensed clinician. Then they'd have to find something else to gripe about. Make 'em get creative! ("NOW, we don't think people who eat meat or are right-handed or have long hair or use Crest instead of Colgate or have earrings should run sweats--we're only thinking of these ladies' well-being, you know!").

Lol gosh I hate when others know what's in my best interest better than me. *pout*

Agreed lar lar. I had a similar convo my last therapy session before leaving.

Hes sounding fishy... ;)

matt you are so very very funny!!

I want the one who uses Colgate...but the rest of what you said...that will be fine.

There is a trigger involved with Crest, but right now...I'm going for the "funny" end of that comment.

I think I need therapy! Wait, I GET therapy. Dang...maybe someone could ask the collective THEM, what it is I need, since they know me so well.

Scuz Wads!

Can somebody tell what exactly goes on, how long, what are we wearing, etc. I was at the first retreat but didn't get to go to the "sweat" and now reading all this makes me nervous.