Trump is a horror, without a doubt - but this isn't necessarily the same issue as the Wkileaks of Clinton's emails. I don't know if the Russians hacked the DNC and stole those emails or not. But i think it's important to remember that we have been misled and manipulated by false US intelligence many times in the past. Do you remember the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" used to justify the 2003 invasion of Iraq? The war that started the Middle East slide into the chaos it is today? The Us government, the UK goverment and my Australian goverment pretty much knew they were lies, but invaded anyway.

Now fast fowards to the 2011 invasion of Libya. The war France needed to maintain it's economic influence in the region and in Africa, and the war Hillary Clinton wanted as part of her long term strategy to win the Presidency. To justify this invasion US intelligence told us that Gaddafi was slaughtering innocent civilians (and arming terrorists?) In actual fact the US goverment knew this wasn't true, they knew that Gaddafi was giving clemency to the rebels. And they knew part of the rebel forces opposing Gaddafi was al-Qaeda. They knew this because they allowed the United Arag Emirates (i think it was?) to slip shipments if arms through the US / Nato blockades to them. This war accelerated the destabilisation of the entire region and was in part responsible for the flood of refugees and jihadis into the rest of the Middle East and Europe.

Russia may well have interferred in the election in the manner that US intelligence is telling us. I don't know one way or t'other. But please remember, these are the very people that lied to us in the past, And using those lies our goverments led us into 2 disastrous wars. Wars in which 100,000's of innocents and children died. And are still dying today.

It's not like the media or government is a single entity (the American media is more like 5 corporations). The Bush Administration lying does not mean the ongoing government necessarily. I agree it's good to be skeptical but like Leo said, there's a lot of evidence supporting it. Politifact confirms it's true.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/19/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-blames-russia-putin-wikileaks-rele/
This is not the same as invading another country. It's Russia hacking into government documents and releasing selective information, which haven't been confirmed true, to influence the presidential election for an outcome that favors them. It's not saying Trump and Putin planned this together, although Trump's presumed choice of Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson as secretary of state is very suspicious. IMO it's more likely that Russia likes Trump and Trump's an insane sociopath.


Anyway thanks for all the replies everyone. I'm very worried.

It is now been reported that Putin is the most powerful man in the world. Previously the US president, no matter which one, held that honor. These are dangerous, scary times.

Yeah i see that Leo responded to what I said but I really don't have much to say, other than trump has lied to us, the media has lied to us, and so I have no idea what to do or what to think about the given information.

Yeah, puke. Yet folks out there in the offices of power have the nerve to say those of us here are somehow the "abnormal" ones. Looks like Bruce Cockburn's song said it right. "The trouble with normal is it always gets worse." Hmm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kybkiiAKMOY

Anymore, you cannot believe a thing you read. The facts are we, the little ants of the world, will never know if this is a fake story or not. Take a few deep breaths and try not to let this trigger you. It is not worth it, we cannot change it. I think it is one of those things we need to accept, Trump is president. Russians might have interfered with the election, but maybe they did not. We will never know for sure.

My therapist advised against me watching and following the news because it is so full of such negative stuff. For me, I got triggered every time they talked about the terrorist, or saw footage of the middle east, tanks etc. I got to say, a few months of not following the news really helped. I can now watch it every once in a while and it does not bother me anymore or at least most of the time.

Would you be willing to give up following Trump and the news about him, the election and all that stuff?

This thread has a big Trigger Warning on it and it's best not to read if it triggers anyone.

With that said, we're in an era of inundating information, not too little. We just have to know how to verify information and checking sources is a good start. Here's the statement from the director of national intelligence:
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/215-press-releases-2016/1423-joint-dhs-odni-election-security-statement
"The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations..."

About the media, what I like to do is watch the Sunday clip roundup videos this guy makes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvQyUrh1ag4
He was a lawyer and imo makes very good observations while showing news clips from the 'big 5'.

Fear and hate has always been used to attack minorities and whoever was vulnerable.

New York Times, Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Christian Science Monitor, BBC...will all publish the truth, even if it goes against their own editorial position. Which makes, these all prime targets of those that hope to sell lies.

Thing is, today, more than ever...we can hear and see for ourselves. The tapes of people talking are clear enough.

I don't know if Russia influenced the election or not. Seems likely that they tried. Trying and having an affect are two different things. Considering the things the Pres Elect has said, and was elected anyway...breaks my heart. And scares the hell out of me, 1) That our leader said them, 2) that people I live with think is okay. ("Locker room talk" feels a lot different when you hear it at school every single day growing up. Still gives me nightmares...but whatever.)

My son has a Syrian middle name. I now feel like I've failed him and put him in danger.

I will agree that the CIA's information being twisted by a previous administration doesn't mean they *always* lie. Has anyone here lied, even once? Twisted facts for their own purposes to avoid a problem or get an advantage? If you say "no, never", great for you, but I've fudged to escape unpleasant realities. Hell, I still lie by omission about my rape. The measure is not only the past, but also the *present*. It's not okay to be hacked, and if it ahppened, it's worth investigating.

We know what Trump has said. it's on tape. Not faked tapes, real ones. They've been out there for *yeras and years*. He said this stuff ten years, twenty years, thirty years ago, for those of us old enoguh to remember his first grab for media glory, and subsequent uncaring of what was said if it meant he was in a headline. It's archived, not new. That inclines me ot trust it, as it's a contemporary (at same time of event) source.

I also think there's a very dangerous presumption that politicians and governments are meant to be *saintly*. That's a naivete that gets us into buying the black-vs-white media spin, which favors selling ad time, which favors making money for parent companies that often aren't even media companies (General Electric owned NBC for years, for example), or are entertainment corporations (Time-Warner owns CNN, Time magazine, Warner as in movies).

But nobody is a saint, certainly not someone hungry for power, and governing is dirty work. Abraham Lincoln is a revered president, but he was reviled in his day for "allowing" the US Civil War. Dirty deals were made in 1980 about hostages in Iran. Foul means have fueled England-Ireland bad relations for centuries. What is seen as "sin" by the populace and media is called "compromise" in a business, but in government is unforgivable. Well, guess what? You don't get everything you want, all the time, all the way you want.... And expecting to? Is childish. We can't afford to feel that way when it comes to government. It's called "checks and balances" for a reason in the US system. It's never gonna be okay,b ut when we give up trying----by no longer believing *anything*, which is called cycnicism or apathy as you prefer----then we give up *hope*. And I won't do that.

A post-fact world is called a *lie*. Europe knows this, being far nearer Putin and his post-fact Russia. His populace is brainwashed by a media that is terrified to do anything but lie, lest Putin see them dead. Music groups go to prison, for pity's sake. So if you want Green Day to go to jail in the US for "American Idiot", then great, go ahead, support the incoming administration. I prefer to barrage my Congresscritters with phone calls asking them to block the Cabinet appointments that will make this Putin's Russia.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.--- Ben Franklin (earlier version of quotation: Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.)

If you bleieve nothing in the news or in print or in history books or indeed anything at all said or written.... at least believe that it's nt whether it's true, but that people believe it is true. After all, Nazi Germany had people convinced Jews were responsible for everything wrrong in the world. Didn't mean it was *true*, but their belief in it?...

And if people believe Russia gave us Trump as our next president, then why vote? And iwthout votes, there is no democracy. And then... ?

That was one weird ramble, but I'm trying to say Fact is Fact. Denying *those* is what's making the incoming administration dangerous. Not their opinion or belief, but that they simply decide fact is not fact, in order to profit, and use other people's fears to do it.

That reminds me, there is a place in California that is a Huge Archive of Facts, Video, Truth going back years..,anyway they think (me too) that keeping all the past facts, truths archived is so imperative now, that they are moving their operations to Canada. They are that concerned about the new administration!!

In the middle of an anxiety attack.,,logging on daily strength for some support... and this is what pops up..,full blown panic attack now.

I want to crawl under a rock about right now for four years until the nightmare is over. I was so proud to vote for HRC . I don't care what anyone thinks about her . she has broken ground for so many women to come. I am a wanna be feminist activist and a pissed off proud member of GLBT and I fear for our group and other disenfranchised groups. Trump in office is gaslighting at its best by a known predator. That is hard for many who have been abused I am sure. For now I have more things in life more important than fretting the results . I just hope good wins over tyranny and the other side can help oppose stuff I actually voted for the first time in years and had a sign in my yard and had my t shirts and pins, I don't know what anyone can do to change it. For me the last straw was Comey . Hope someone investigates his partisan moves... in the meantime I will keep venting appropriately and remember what I learn in recovery God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change Change the things I can. and the wisdom to know the difference. We all have to find our own ways to be kind to the least of us. Because the broken and oppressed are most definitely more profoundly vulnerable now with T in office ,, prayers we need . this nation is in a time of unrest and challenge taking us back to civil rights days of old..

ps great post could be triggering I am sure but those who posted I love what you have to say. Leo you sound like a political junkie like myself

part of me just wants the whole thing to go up in flames.