the guy said to the doctor this hurts when i do this the doctor says then dont do that,, analogy we are creatures of habit hard wiring doesnt go away it is managed is how i look at it ,,our formative years even come back more and more as we age i have resolved to have one good day and keep a log of a good day bad day what ever instead of beaing myself up if we dont change our past we are doomed to repeat it is true but for some with great deeply entrenched enmeshed families and repeititive abuse i just say we live we learn we do our best not to fall in the hole again but go around it this time

Muji, I just used "repetition compulsion" in another post and now I see you were discussing it here. Very timely.

Yes, this is one area that I have been working through a lot with my therapist, and I remember from previous posts, we've had similar dynamics with ex's, so I'll try to share what I've learned. One area where I've kicked repetition compulsion successfully is in my personal / romantic relationship. I am FINALLY dating a loving man who is supportive. But before that, I was married to a narcissist with APD (antisocial personality disorder), and after my marriage ended, I dated two more narcissists. I learned I was codependent and that there is a theory called the "human magnet syndrome" that we engage in unconsciously. This entails attracting our opposite on the narcissist / codependence spectrum. For example, if we are a -5 on the codependent spectrum, we'll likely attract a narcissist who's a +5. The idea is that the relationship equals out to a 0.

Sorry for all the theory, but once I started to learn about it, I was able to kick the repetition compulsion in my romantic relationships to the curb. The things that helped me:

Therapy
Reading about narcissism (but you have to be careful here b/c it can be an addicting subject in and of itself)
Dealing w/ the feelings of abandonment depression from my childhood (Pete Walker, of course)

So I had a mental breakthrough that allowed me to stop repeating this pattern with romantic partners, and maybe that's what you need, too. And while I don't know what kinds of relationships you're trying to change, there may be similarities that transcend the kind of relationship.

The things I listed above are what allowed me to have the breakthrough. Here's some background on how it happened: when my last relationship ended, I beat myself up constantly. I kept thinking, if only I'd done that differently, if only I hadn't said that, if only I'd been a more loving girlfriend, etc. I missed my ex terribly. He was all I could think about. I was trying to date other men, but I was obsessed with my ex. But when I figured out that my ex-boyfriend was a narcissist, everything changed. The reason? I realized that no matter what I did, there is nothing I could have done differently to preserve the relationship. I was dating a broken man, and I couldn't fix him. What a relief! I finally saw for myself that the relationship was never going to succeed. This freed me up to find someone else. If you are trying to stop repeating a relationship other than a romantic one, maybe it's worth examining with your therapist if you are still trying to save broken people. I think sometimes that's what we're trained to do, and we keep doing it because that's what we're familiar with, so the repetition compulsion kicks in. Or our mind is still attempting to resolve a childhood trauma through repetition compulsion, which it can never do because there are no real answers, and that's where the tragedy lies -- when we keep repeating the same situation that is impossible to change.

Now, the thing I want to be honest about is that I am still struggling with this area in my professional life where I am still prone to repetition compulsion. I have two bosses right now -- a female boss who belittles me and a male boss who ignores me. And one day it dawned on me -- I'm repeating the same dynamic as I had with my parents: my mother was VERY critical, and my father traveled all the time for work, leaving my sister and me to be raised by a woman who turned into a monster. My mother is the narcissist and is the reason I was repeating this dynamic with men. Now that I've kicked that, I am still struggling with overcoming underrating and trying to break free and get a better job in a different city.

So it's a process, and maybe I haven't had my big mental breakthrough at work yet. There is still something to learn there, but my therapist recently told me that I'm still giving away my power at work. I'm allowing the words and actions of others to determine my moods and sense of self worth. So being a recovering codependent, for me it comes down to setting internal and external boundaries. And maybe there is something there for you to think about, too.

Realize I've gone on a bit long, but given that we have a similar romantic history and I had a breakthrough to share in one area and am still struggling in another, my hope is that you can relate to some of it and that it might help you have your own breakthrough. Good luck, Muji, and I look forward to continuing to discuss with you. Would also be happy to share the books I've read that have helped the most if you're interested.

I went back and re-read my response and see where I am giving away my power at work: "my female boss belittles me and my male boss ignores me." You see in that sentence how I sound like a little kid? I have not taken ownership of this.... I am invisible in that sentence, and I have given my power to them. I need to know that I am a good employee and a talented writer, and that poor treatment by authority figures who have their own issues does not change that.

Considering our being is pretty much formed by the age of 5 I don't really think a lot can be undone... I believe (without divine intervention) we find skills to help us to cope and move on from a life of strife with hopefully some headway

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20080928/NEWS/809280322/Most-vital-part-education-takes-place-early-Child-s-first-five-years

My ex wife was going on and on and on about her own rightness ( Ms always right!)

...I realized, the ex was much like unmedicated mom...

I have put up with my horrible, incompetent boss for far too long also.

My too high tolerance works for me sometimes in that I don't give up on situations at work that freak other coworkers out. Sometimes I can step into a chaotic situation and work through it better than others can.

But other times, I tolerate being treated badly when I definitely should draw the line.

It's hard for me to tell when to do which.

Now that you are so astutely aware of it Muji I think you will have an easier time determining when to proceed and when to pull back. As you analyze each situation I think you will feel it in your gut what you should or should not do.

Yeah, awreness is half of it.

I blew up once when I found out a friend wa slying about me---gee, who did that before? Right, my sis! I told the person I did not want to hear their "reasons", that I was not going to be lied about, and not when it cost me a chance at a part-time job at a time when my business was lagging (post 9/11).... And that, folks, was *that*. I felt awful for getting angry, fearing retaliation, but (unlike my sister) this person didn't bother retaliating. Just realized "Busted!" and slunk away.

Don't miss 'em.

I hate losing my temper, but th emoral of the story is:

You'll find your "line in the sand" and you may re-draw it a few times, but it's okay to go back and forth on it till you get that comfort zone found.

I find myself slow to react and then obsessive once I do. So I often miss the opportunity to draw the boundary appropriately for myself in the moment. Then, when it dawns on me that the opportunity passed me by, I'll kick myself over it for longer than necessary.

The slow reaction/then obsession pattern is something I'm trying to learn to work with more effectively. It's taking deliberate effort.

Anybody else experience that pattern in themselves?

I think that is kind of what I explained on the thread earlier. Using the example of the two ex-wives, we go out a few times and we are very tepid. Then we see things that are game changers. And we want to say, "Those were a few very nice dates but I don't think I want to continue dating or seeing you. Thank you for a nice time."

But that is not what we do. There is no way in hell we should feel obligated to these women, but something in us makes us feel as though we are their property. As if we are inferior to them and we are nothing more than their slave. Child abuse does wonderful things to us fellas. They are ok with being the dominant one, but after a while, it loses it's vanity even for them. They eventually go out and seek what they really want, not what they thought they wanted.

I have to weigh that under-reacting/over-reacting thing in my emotions when I need to use my good judgment about this issue. I have to be deliberate about it, think it through, all of that. It hasn't gotten automatic yet. It takes up time and effort.

The slow reaction/then obsession pattern is something I did too. I'd like to say I don't do it any more but if the situation is unsolvable (like the narcissistic one I had over the weekend) I will obsess about it trying to find a reason or an answer. I don't know that I found my answer but posting here did help me to feel better about how I was feeling about it all. And that did help me to stop obsessing so much.

Everything takes practice. Repetition is key in just about everything we learn. Just remember, the patterns you have now have been with you a very long time and they will not be revised/changed quickly. If the behavior you are trying to change is actually something you used as a coping mechanism I have found that takes even longer to modify. So, as you say, "it takes up time and effort" but it is worth it.

Thanks, that's reassuring, it really is. And another reassuring thing in what you said, LuckyEmpath, is " I don't know that I found my answer but posting here did help me to feel better about how I was feeling about it all. And that did help me to stop obsessing so much."

Me, too! Posting the obsessive chatter in my head here helps me sort it out, both in the writing it and seeing it on the page myself, and then in the replies from others here, too.

I think taking time to stop and think things through is wise muji.. When you don't know what to say, say nothing... I do the racing thoughts as well and I'm not sure whether it's BP or what

I think you handled the problem you had with those students for instance wonderfully ...Bringing problems to DS has been a big help to me as well

Thanks, SunCloud. I've got a student now who reacts oddly every time we have a test. If I take the usual time to grade it and return it the very next class, she thinks I'm stressing her out by making her wait and doing so on purpose.

It's patently untrue and unreasonable, but she really believes out of her paranoia that I'm not telling her the grade she got instantly so as to mess with her. When she says so after every test all of the other students just giggle and stare at how crazy her belief is.

And yet, even though it's totally silly, something about it triggers me. Being cajoled to try to meet the unreasonable demands like that of my abusive parents was what I was raised on, so I end up obsessing about it after work.

Just an example an example of how you know better in your head, but you obsess about it in your heart.