When Muji first mentioned the Fawning thing to me, over a year or so ago? I felt something inside say, "AHA!" It's a horrible sensation. I hate it in myself, I cringe at it in others, and I want to fight... but usually I freeze... and then I flee the person who requires me to fawn. FFFF all the way. *sigh*
I used to "fawn" on my hubby, and he subconsciously took advantage of that. It's in the human hindbrain, possibly? Something to do with group dynamics among primates? I dunno for certain, but my whiskers tell me it's... A bad pattern and precedent. Took me and Hubby a separation to unlearn, and till last year for me to realize that the fawning phenomenon was the best definition for what it was all about. I'd be fawning, Hubby'd take advantage without even realizing it consciously, I'd be angry tha the took advantage, and away we went. Ergo, first round of marriage therapy and a many-months separation. I had to learn he'd love me without me fawning, and he had to learn the signs I was fawning and stop *himself* from kicking back and saying on some level, "Ah, I am Boss King Poobah!" and enjoying the scurrying mouse-wife scenario. WHich tapped into a lot of crap from his parents' marriage and divorce and eventual remarriage to each other and so on and so forth and... Then I had to keep *him* from "fawning" in penance. *headdesk* Learning how to be equal-equivalent-balanced partners? Oy. Juggling on a teeter-totter. Still a work in progress. He's learned it's okay t0 argue without it being Evil (his mother's view of disagreement is that it's something only bad people do, OMG), and it's okay to be okay with disagreeing and and and... And that's just *his* luggage. Mine needs a handcart.

I agree that Fawning has its own "tones", but I think for me, I read it more in body language than hear it , if that makes sense. Maybe b/c I spent so much time watching wild animals as a kid and animals communicate much more without vocalizing. (Birds excluded.)

All I know is, my dad had us fawning over him as if that would help us survive, and in the end, it only depended on his whim anyway, so... I think fawning is ultimately always self-defeating. Flight for me at least offers the chance to get some healing and thinking space. But that's *my* situation.

CHewing thoughtfully, Arfie.

I have not succeeded in keeping my Inner Biologist out of the "Fawning" meditations. When I run it through the Biologist portions of my brain, I resist the thought of it being part of the primal drive called, "Hind drive."

But it is rubbing up against a behavior noted in all the gregarious species. (Wolves, apes, birds, etc.) In my own biologist-wanna-be files, it might be what I have learned as, "Submission."

Although this response is so deeply ingrained in me that some might call it a significant part of my "core self",it always leaves me feeling so inauthentic i feel like a liar(please,i am NOT calling anyone here a liar in this)...which leads to utter shame that is incredibly hard to cope with..but what i've seen in my life so often,is that,when i've confronted someone who has hurt me,all i get is denial,and that frustrates me too much,so i will give up.then i shut down,or,in the past,have become very self destructive because of it.and there's a huge inner sigh and i return to what is easier for the other person.does this connect? i am still learning.
"Cause sometimes/I said sometimes/I hear my voice/And it's been here/Silent all these years -Tori Amos-"Silent all these years".

Hey, arfie, I liked it when you wrote "For me, personally, I think fawning is a flight trigger." The idea that it's the fourth F of PTSD is Pete Walker's notion, but that fawning is a form of flight resonated with me. It resonated with me in the sense of flight from myself. I know that seems odd, but that's what it feels like to me. That I'm running away from myself. And you know what that leads to in that saying, "wherever you go, there you are."

I believe I come from a family of fawners in that sense, people fleeing themselves, trying to solve their problems with the "geographical" cure. I loved growing up overseas, but I think my parents became missionaries not just because they wanted to serve others, but partly because they were fleeing their problems. By the time I graduated from high school I had gone to 13 schools in 12 years in 3 different countries.

Wherever we lived, "spin" was constant, a public "fawning" relations campaign to maintain an image of our family that was impossible to keep going over the long haul. And so at some point we would move again, and then after "fawning" wore my folks out once more, we'd move yet again. We never just stopped, stood still, and faced whatever it was we were running from so frantically as a family.

That's how my family moved from war zone to war zone overseas 3 times, getting PTSD from war zone living not once over, but three times over. It makes me realize how scared my parents must have been of their past if they preferred to face war in the present rather than face the past.

It's really sad, because it just doesn't work. We all have to stop the fawning and fleeing some time. It's hard and it's never been done in my family tree before, so I really thank everybody for helping me try it with all the support here at DS PTSD.

Thanks, arfie, for pointing out that there can be this relationship between flight and fawning like this. It's been a good insight for me today.

Thank you for this post Arfie. In my opinion fawning may be related to loosing one's power and not wanting to face what is causing troubles to avoid problems.