Don't worry confused, I would bet anything that he is not changing. They do not change. However, if they feel like the victim (you) is getting away from his manipulations the abuser will do or say ANYTHING to get you back. It is all lip service. As soon as he gets you back the abuse gets worse than it was and continues to get worse. If you do not want to live with an abuser, you need to leave. Then you need to go no contact with him. You can't be successful at leaving if you don't go total no contact. As I said, He will do or say anything to get you back.
I wish you the best of luck and an abuse free life.

((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))

"""""""""""""""""""""""""What are the chances that he will get better, seriously?""""""""""""""""""""""""""""


Seriously?


Virtually none.
Sorry.

Advice?

Keep moving towards
an abuse-free life.

What they said.

I understand the guilt and the "fear" that he might get better. But while I agree with the others that he almost certainly won't, particularly if your gut is telling you that all he's doing is further manipulation, in the end it doesn't matter.

He broke this. It's his responsibility to fix it and if it can't be fixed because he waited too long ... well too bad, so sad. Still his fault. He has emotionally abused you for years. I'm willing to bet that over the years you have (like I did) tried EVERYTHING to get him to see, to get him to understand - to get him to stop. I'll bet you begged and pleaded, you cried, you shouted, you spoke calmly and carefully, you did EVERYTHING. And none of it worked. Until you say you want out of the marriage because he's broken it beyond repair - and then, all of a sudden, he wants to do something about it?

Too little, too late. Not your fault if you can't ever trust him again.

Oh and the not forcing? Funny true story. My ex was an alcoholic who used to beat me, only ever when he was drunk. So when I finally got the courage to call the cops and follow through, he threatened to have me arrested for "aiding and abetting" because I didn't stop him from drinking. Now, I'd tried EVERYTHING to convince him to stop, but apparently because I didn't physically restrain him (he was 6' 2 and big all over), I was criminally liable for his assaulting me. The point being, these guys will do and say ANYTHING to avoid taking any responsibility for their own actions.

Time to take care of you now, look after your needs. And if that means getting out of a marriage that has become nothing more than a piece of paper, because of HIS abuse, well then so be it. He made his bed he can lie in it.

Oh and one of the reasons it's so hard, and you care, etc etc, is because he has trained you to put his needs and wants ahead of yours. So you are battling that brainwashing. What you want and feel IS enough, it's his voice in your head saying it's not enough and that you should just continue to do, feel and want whatever he tells you to.

It's hard because you have a heart. You're someone who knows how to love, and you're probably very empathetic (wouldn't want to hurt people's feelings). There's probably attachment too because you were married, which is normal.

I've wondered about whether abusers will change too, and the answer time and time again is...might be easier for you to win a lottery...so no.

By the way, from how he said "I'm not placing blame but its not like you forced m to go to counseling, if only you would have done that", that seems like a classic abusive person's response. He told you this last week? Girl, he's not changing one single bit!

Here's a video I saw, and it answers some very common questions of why victims put up with the abuse and how the abuse happens, etc. Answered some of my questions. Hope it helps you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk5f2f9vKhI

My take may seem to differ from the others just a bit, but for what it is worth, here it is

If you were in this situation by yourself, no kids, my instinct would immediately match the others and say that after 20 years you are way beyond having any duty to consider waiting and seeing if he can really improve, even if he seems sincere. But since you have two young kids, and I think I read that you consider him a good father, then a try at counseling *could* be a reasonable course to take. Not necessarily the right one, but one that should not be rejected out of hand either, in my very humble opinion.

It seems to me that only you can make this personal call as to whether repair work is worth trying. These situations are so complicated. Work with a family counselor could help you tease through everything and lead to healing, even if chances of success are limited (obviously I shy from saying "tiny" because I can't know all the circumstances, and even if I did, I'm no expert, only one of the survivors or semi-survivors here).

But all this thinking seems to be moot here, and the others' take right. You make clear that you are fed up, and so any try would be pointless because you wouldn't be emotionally behind it. Not to mention that his sincerity would have to be trusted, and that too seems suspect. Ultimately of course, it comes down to what you feel inside, considering everything, and trusting your final instinct as to what you can take and then the proper course forward to take.

Well, that's it, just a bit-different perspective I thought worth giving. Hearing various perspectives is good, I think.

A BIG BIG hug to you as you navigate this terribly difficult time!!

I've been where you are and it's complicated to say the least.

I know exactly how you feel except for the part about finding someone new. ( I read through your past posts)

Your husband sounds a lot like mine and for me.. I couldn't put my needs ahead of the comfort and security of my children.. my husband is not a monster.. he has been very mean at times, but I am still a happy vibrant person and it's nothing I can't deal with.... You have to do what is best for you... Nobody can make your decision for you.

Good luck and sending hope and good vibes your way!

Please do not take the advice of going to counselling (because u have children) sorry to the person who has advices it!

Hun your children would have a better and happier life being in an environment that holds stability and because he emituobally abuses you and will never stop then your children will never experience a stable home whilst u r together (because he will never stop)

My daughter was 15 month old when I went NC with my ex (her dad) and he walked away from her and he was so loving to her when he was around her, claimed that she had saved him and changed him ( he claimed to have lost his abusive side) and he was nicer, but it was all an act, just a game, the way he was with her and claimed to love her the last thing I would have thought would be that he would so easily walk out of her life!

I thought he would at least try but he's not!

So all that good father stuff was also an act, it was a manipulation for my sake because if he showed to love and care and have a heart for our daughter how could I put my foot down with him and say "no more " to him constantly coming down every night and being in my life as well???

The moment I said "no more" and placed healthy boundries in place concerning our daughter he made his decision and walked away!!

I see the difference in her since his bad energy has gone, she is happier and more stable!

Kids pick up on these things!

So please don't allow any guilt over your children and him Bri g their dad influence you!

If he was a good dad, why has he been abusing his kids mother????
That's their mother, not his and he has no right in distracting her from them!!!

Just think about that!!!

After 11-1/2 years of emotional abuse I felt a switch inside my head go off. I no longer loved my husband and I could see truly for the first time who he was and what he was doing to me. And it was horrible.

He then had himself committed to a psychiatric hospital for a week and claimed he was going to be "cured" of his abusiveness. For me, I could see through the deception. All the horrible things he did to me were etched in my psyche. A good friend of mine who is STILL trapped in an emotionally abusive marriage gave me the best piece of advice ever: "Don't listen to him," she said. "He will never ever change and he is just doing this to get you back." and she was right.

As soon as I told my husband I was still going through with the divorce, I was moving into an apartment, then he turned back into his true, ugly, abusive self. And it was a weird little blessing that he did this. If he had been nice to me, I probably would have been sucked back in.

But he has continued to be a total douche for the last 6+ years of us being divorced and sharing a son. He's also unkind to our son and to others. He is not able to change. He is still quite the master manipulator.

Don't let him suck you back in. Get your index cards out. Get yourself a good therapist. Work on yourself and you will slowly begin to see his true face, the one that he hides beneath the socially acceptable mask.

Life is too short to live in abuse. You deserve so much better. He is still putting on a dog and pony show for you, and that's all it is....a show.

Think hard about what YOU want to do and where you want to go. Hugs to you, hon.

I asked the same question as you once....why does he have to all of a sudden be so nice and contrite? Better that he stays mean and abusive! I am still with him after too many years and have raised a family. Now my teenage son is in crisis and i wonder whether I should have tried to keep things together all those years or not. But I was and still am caught up in the spider's web. Just keep trying to get free that is my advice. I practice in my mind how to stay detached when I finally tell him it is done, and he pours on the manipulation, whatever form it takes. By the way...people on here said something I keep in mind: if he says he will go fix himself...great . He can still work on that after leaving! Anyway, good luck in your decision....

thank you all! Below are things I wrote just from what he said from discussions we had last night and today. I can't be wrong. I feel like he is wearing me down. UGH.......

He Said we should just take a break from therapy and just live
Then said he still needs to see therapist to get help
He Said love is a choice
He Said that he strongly suggests that I see his dr
He Said pscyhologists have more training and they are better
He Asked if my psychologist told me to tell him not to talk to my family
He Kept asking who told him about not speaking to my family
He Keeps repeating he is changed in his core
He said I just need to forgive
He loves me and wants me to just try
He wants me to give it a year and give 110%
He said he is going to psych
He said he is changed
He wants to know why I cant give him a chance
He wants to know why my therapist cant see him or tell me to try when he is changed
He promises to never hurt me
He tells me he is not who he used to be
He tells me the change is permanent
He keeps repeating the same thing over and over
He said he doesnt understand why I cant forgive him
He says he takes responsibility
He said we were not both giving it 110% at the same time
(he seems very desperate)
I told him I needed a break from talking about it and I had to tell him 3 times he kept talking, he still brings it up
He said he just wants to tell me how he feels
He says he understands but says I dont realize this happens in a lot of relationships says he is not minimizing what he did
He doesnt seem to be hearing what im telling him
He keeps talking about how I need an orgasm
He said not to forget what he said about sex without emotion
He keeps saying that he is here to give me everything I want, wants to know why I cant just accept it
He tells me he researched abuse and he is not a predator, yet he only acknowledges what I tell him about abuse, although he seems to forget about the manipulation & it seems like he is still doing it
Says he wishes my therapist could see the both of us and then said he needs a psychologist.
He then says it costs a lot to go to therapy

All the years of abuse add up to a big pile of doo doo that stinks. I feel like that too. The ex says he will change blah blah blah and I know he may say that but it won't materialize. Try to brush off the guilt because you already know who he is right? You already know he has had a long time to change but didn't right? Trust your instinct. Do what you need to do to be happy and live. I think a lot of us already gave up many years of living trying to make these other people happy. Time to think about what we need.

Sounds like an awful lot of circular talk, manipulation and inconsistency. No taking responsibility, no remorse, no real change. And absolutely no respect for you or your boundaries.

I just want to say I went through exactly the same thing. I was married for 20 years and was trying to hold it together for the kids but in the last couple of years I was just a miserable mess, and they knew it. I wasn't functioning well anymore. I had been battling depression for years, had migraines, IBS, high blood pressure, stomach ulcers... I'm sure I'm leaving something out. Anyway, sometimes there is no easy way out.. and there is guilt. Its been three years nowand iI still have days now and then when I cry and miss having my family all together, and it did cause an upheaval and a lot of stress for all of us, but the way we were living was super stressful as well. My husband did all that..fell apart, cried, begged, started doing nice things for me, started going to counciling on his own, started going to church, called just about everyone I know telling them how hard he was trying and how much he loved me and how I just wouldn't give him a chance.
Well I gave him 20 years of chances and I had just reached the point where I could not do it anymore. I could not give anything else to this man that had sucked all the life and joy and energy out of me for 20+ years. I was just done. I'm not going to say it was easy. It wasn't, but you do count, your life and your happiness are worth something. You can't be a good mother or a good anything when you are constantly being beaten down and are at the point where you have nothing left to give. You are not obligated to sacrifice your whole life to someone else's selfishness and abuse. You count too. You deserve to be able to live, to feel joy, to have a chance at a better and peaceful life. Don't let these ladies that are telling you that you need to stay for your children make you feel guilty. Is your marriage really the example you want to make for your kids to follow? Because they will. I did. You know what you live your whole life. I grew up thinking it was my job to sacrifice my happiness to make everyone else happy, no matter how I was treated. Thank goodness I finally saw the light. We only get one life, you count, you matter, you deserve to feel good about yoyrself and be happy. What we have with these men is not what marriage was meant to be. Not by Gods standards or anyone else's.

Hear hear! Well said, FlyAway.

As for staying "for the sake of the children" - if a relationship is abusive, I say get out for the sake of the children. Like FlyAway, I chose abusive marriages in part because it was what I knew. I also now believe that any kind of spousal abuse is also child abuse, even if it's not physical, not directed at the kids, not even in front of them. Abusing their parent leaves that parent less able to be the kind of parent they want to be, often leads to health issues, stress issues, and sets the kids up for a lifetime of abuse too.