aral, (((HUGS))). I wish I could turn off my feelings, too. but that would make us like them. The only way out of this hell is through it. You are moving in the right direction.

There's a biological
explanation about
why breaking emotional
bonds is so difficult.
(It's NOT a personal
"weakness.")

This is one of the times
when my Clarifying Index
Card exercise is really
valuable. (I'll bump it
for you.) You might
want to give it a try.

Please focus on
self-care and
remembering
why this relationship
is toxic.

Sending you hugs
and wishes for
strength and
clarity.

Illene - thank you I am looking forward to getting your index cards!

I highly recommend Ilene's Index Card Exercise!

At some point you might also want to follow that up w/a 'good bye' letter. In that letter you will write all that you will and (more importantly) won't miss about him. Do NOT give him the letter. (I repeat DO NOT GIVE HIM THE LETTER.)

Instead, burn it. Turn it into a 'funeral' pyre. You might have to do this more than once.

You also might want to check out the trauma bonding thread that may help you to have an intellectual understanding of why its hard to let go.
http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Physical_Emotional_Abuse/forum/19534739-trauma-bonding

Under normal circumstances, w/a 'normal' relationship, letting go is usually a process and the longer you were together, the longer it will take. When you add the trauma caused by abuse to the mixture, it will take even longer.

As Ilene said, practice extreme self care and if you aren't already seeing a therapist, please consider counseling with someone QUALIFIED in recovery from trauma & abuse.

~hugs~

aral2003, I cannot imagine how hard it must be when you have been married to someone that is so toxic. I still harbor very strong feelings for my ex husband, but he was not nearly as abusive as anyone I have been in a relationship since. His was more financial abuse, he would not keep a job and I supported him most of the time we were together. I have had to face the cold hard truth that he likely was with me for a free ride and never loved me, or at least with the intensity I did him.
Now he hates me and blames me for his life, no job, broke down car, house, no friends, etc...
I have read quotes that is is sometimes easier to fuel hatred than to work on loving..not sure but it would seems in his case.
I too have obsessive thoughts, but I realize they are mute as he hates me.
My last ex boyfriend I have obsessed about badly, but it is more, could I of, should I of, what if? Objectively I know I do not and did not love him, I just wanted the dream. He is an addict and he is not willing to give that up. He is also a serial cheater. Both are too dangerous for me.
I wish you peace and I so hope you can move on and do what is right for you. YOU are so worth it. Hugs

As I have said on other threads, I feel like my most obsessive thought is that he will be good to someone else and that his abuse was a result of my behavior. He has repeatedly told me that I was a difficult person and pushed his limits. It's almost as though I would be ok with him moving on if it was guaranteed that he wont change (as crazy as that sounds).

Aral2003, I cannot say personally what will happen with him, but from my experience with abusers, those that have abused both physically and emotionally, none have been capable of change. They have only gotten worse and in some cases become better manipulators. Also in the cases where I went back, I was abused worse and the honeymoon period got shorter and shorter, to where they didn't even try to disguise the cheating or lies.
In the cases of physical abuse, the beat harder and more. In sexual degradation, the upped the ante and light choking went to almost strangling, biting and bruises, to watching porn to wanting to video me.
Promising to quit habits, smoking, drinking, drugs, cheating...is all manipulation and they will leave hints just to hurt you. Panties on the floor, numbers laying around, tell you to answer their phone..knowing she will be calling, or even bolder going where he knows his ex will be to parade you around her or vice versa.
They drink, smoke, use more.
The telling you " You are the one that pushes my buttons." You can make me so angry." You bring such drama upon yourself" You do not communicate." If you would of just answered your phone "
You talk in riddles. You need to just let it go already.
We just have to start fresh and forget the past.

All of these things are gaslighting, projecting and basically just blaming you for their own faults. He will do the same to her.

That is you mourning the dream-because you know the evidence that he will make anyone happy is nill. Him saying he behaved that way because of you-typical abuser response-avoiding responsibility-crazy making, eroding your self worth. It also shows he's one of those breed of abusers who is conscious of his mistreatment of you-a nasty breed for sure.

It's okay for you to mourn the dream-there will be stages of grief like with any death. Just make sure you are "reality checking" that dream, and let yourself feel the pain, don't judge yourself for perfectly natural feelings.

Aral2003, I agree with what Joaniesle said, "those that have abused both physically and emotionally, none have been capable of change". I heard someone say "once an abuser, always an abuser" at an alanon meeting once. It made me angry because I didn't want to hear that. I wanted to believe that my husband would change. He went to inpatient and outpatient addiction treatment, anger management, and we did couples and family counseling. We joined a church and were very active in it. It appeared he had changed. He was still verbally abusive on rare occasions, but I didn't experience anymore physical abuse. However, 2 years after he died, I learned that he had been physically and emotionally abusing our son up until his death.

It's hard to let go. I wonder if you have any knowledge of his previous relationships to help you to see his pattern and to confirm for you that it's a pattern and not your fault.

If a healthy, non-abusive person is unhappy in a relationship and feels someone "pushes his limits", he might leave...but he wouldn't abuse. Even if you "pushed his limits", he had choices about how to handle that and he chose to abuse.

He had once told me he was sorry that I was hurting and sorry that I was upset. That just made me even more angry bc there was no accountability. There was no "I am sorry that I hurt you." Saying "I am sorry YOU are upset" is not that same as saying "I am sorry that I made you upset."

I am trying so hard at no contact but still get upset when I see things that make me think of him or our marriage. It just doesnt seem fair that this is his fault, yet I am hurting.

Jac70 - He had one serious girlfriend before me that lasted about 4 years and ended 5 years before we got together. He told me he treated her like garbage but that was bc he was young (early 20s) and immature. His friends also told me he wasnt too good to her. They are still friends and communicate via text and FB sometimes. That leads me to believe there was no abuse.

The fact that she still communicates with him tells you something about her-it doesn't change what you already know about him. She is not in a good place in her mind and heart. She does not have it within herself, yet, to deal with these mind games, to know she deserves better. HE told you what he did-his friends told you what he did, and your own experiences gives you reasons not to doubt this.

He knows this is your greatest fear-and he's played on that every chance he got-and will continue to if he gets more chances.

I went back to some of my abusive boyfriends despite friends and family advice. I did not know ex wives or girlfriends to ask them if they had been treated badly. I was at such a dark place, I believed I deserved to be treated like shit honestly.
I kept communication open with an ex until I caught him literally cheating. That was my breaking point. Beating me, I let slide. Forcing sex on me, I let slide. Verbally abusing me was child's play at that point in my life. I had lost my ex husband, my ex fianc, my mother had passed, had lost 2 much loved pets, was unemployed, and pretty much on self destruct.
Eventually I found out that each of them had patterns. Two or more ex wives, that they had at the least cheated on multiple times and with one of them, he beat her, even in front of others.
One guy was such a head screwer that his first wife ran away with their child to another state and ended up losing custody because he knew people and she to my knowledge is suicidal yet due to the mental and emotional damage he did.
I know this as I talked with the second wife, after getting out of the relationship for the third and final time. He had drug her by the hair, passed out high and drunk and missed their child's birth, decided he was not finished with her after she left him and filed for divorce, he stalked her.
Even while we were dating, he tried to get her back, I found out later.

I feel a lot of times, ex girlfriends or wives are too traumatized too talk or feel they won't be believed anyway. As for still communicating with the abuser, there is something called trauma bonding, which could be the case. I am a bit better about not going back and have literally had to block everyone, including the abusers friends from social sites, phone, email etc, to stay strong.
There have been times I have run across an abuser on a dating site. It used to wound me a bit, wondering if they are going to do better, kind of wondering about the last one now, but then I realize, if they were doing better and doing the work on themselves, they would not be on these sites, looking for younger women, a friend or a date instead of a lasting relationship, they would not be lieing on their profiles, and they would be waiting to date, like I did and probably will go back to.

I think they just simply cannot be alone. For to be alone means that they have to look at who they truly are in the mirror and they can't face that. Also they would have to take responsibility for themselves, stop the entitlement they are so good at, stop playing the blame game, and grow up.

Sorry for all the length, I just thought you should know, of the men I have dated, even long term relationship lived with, even the one I married, all are to my knowledge still the way they were and not happily married with the white picket fence.

Thing is....it is not OUR responsibility to make others happy, it is our own to make OURSELVES happy and to join in someone elses happiness and to enjoy each others company.
I sure hope you get to do that. Hugs

Your right going back to him wouldn't work because he would be back to his same old crap, so he found someone else good riddance, I say be done with him. Move on. I only say this now because it just doesn't change. They are self centered bastards and deserve what they get.
Sorry I am so sad and angry right now that maybe me answering you is not very good for you right now but I am so right there with you on this one.

The good thing is you can't turn your feelings off like a switch, and the reason it's good is because you are a good person who does have feelings, It is so painful. One day you will look back and atleast have your dignity. The reason I say this is because when I go to counseling, and I don't talk to my ex and he's gone or so I think he's gone, the times that he is gone, I do really well, it's when he comes back that I get really messed up.

No, run forward don't look back and move on. Get busy getting busy work on yourself, go to counseling I do counseling 3 times a week the weekends really slow me down, because I have no one else to talk to on the weekends but him. During the week I am ok, you can do it.

joanieslegacy I swear when I read the stuff you write I am looking at my own story, it's so similar. I'm so glad to read your posts because it really helps me.

When I get on these date sites, I go on there thinking ok I'm just gonna look, and when I go there and look all I think about is, exactly what you said, is this guy here because he was rejected by a really nice girl, then I see 50 year old men flexing, I'm like are they serious? Did they not outgrow that bullshit, and some of them I pass and look and think damn he looks like he just go out of a mental institution, lol, so I gotta ask myself, why in the hell then am I looking, they all look so ugly to me, and not just physical ugly, but you just see it in them they are broken, sad looking pitiful and pathethic. YUK!