There are really no set criteria for abuse, and it really doesn't matter what label is attached to it. If he did things to make you feel bad, especially to make you feel bad about yourself, that's all that matters.

My ex girlfriend was definitely abusive. And she was definitely a narcissist. Yet, she rarely cussed at me or called me names, and when she did it was only under intoxication. I blamed the substance. But it was only after I was away from it all that I recognized the subtle things and comments she did to cut me down every day, and those things hurt much worse than the drunken tirades. Things like criticizing the way I do things, accusing me of cheating, telling me all the things I "should" do, telling me I need to dress better, eat better, etc. It was constant - every day! And that wore me out.

We aren't here to compare scars or battle wounds. Any one wound is one too many.

I'll be honest with you, I often felt like what I had wasn't abuse. I would look up domestic violence on Google and see awful and very visible evidence of beatings, etc. that I had never suffered.

But then I read further and found out that often, it is the small and most insidious things that can do the worst damage. That was why I felt so bad inside still.

A person strategically denying you emotional closeness, compliments,or moral support when you need it can be abuse. Someone not paying attention to you when you need it in whatever form can be abuse. Feeling invisible, being cheated on or isolated while other people are given preferential treatment by the abuser, can be abuse.

As Kevin said, feeling bad about yourself due to things your husband did is more than enough proof in itself that you WERE abused.

I have read your posts, and there is no doubt in my mind that he was indeed abusive.

Take care and lots of good wishes xx

What they said. All of it.

Also, I've lost track of the number of times I have read someone's story and thought "wow, how on earth did they come out of that still sane? I'm so glad mine wasn't anywhere near that bad". Only to find out later, they were thinking the exact same thing about my story.

The truth is, when it happens to someone else, it seems so much worse because it's so much easier for us to see it for what it is. When it's someone else's story, we are not blinded by the "good" times we remember, or by the "maybe it was my fault, I'm not perfect either" thinking.

Abuse is abuse and it's all bad. And any relationship where you are left feeling bad, worthless, confused, wrong, stupid etc more times than not (or really, at all) is in my view abusive in some way. Likewise any relationship where you feel you are constantly chasing your tail to try to be 'better", or walking on eggshells to try to make sure he or she isn't "upset", or afraid to express your wishes or needs for fear of the response.

It doesn't matter how those things are done, whether subtly with just raised eyebrows and ignoring your wishes, or whether with physical beatings. The result is the same.

I myself have been through several abusive relationships (yay me - but never again), though the last one was the only one that included violence, being beaten and raped numerous times. And I can tell you that the very worst one is my father, who has never called me names, never yelled at me, he did hit me twice but that's not what made him the worst. He is clever and manipulative and nothing I have done was EVER good enough for him. Oh he was "only joking" when every time I came home from school with a test result he'd ask why I didn't do better (even when I was top of the class). He was "only joking" when he told me as I walked out the door for my very first job interview, that he wouldn't hire me because I have no experience. And so on. He is always "only joking" or he "didn't mean it that way" or I'm "too sensitive" or, if nothing else will work, he simply didn't say it.

Sometimes, the subtlest forms of abuse can be the worst. So never try comparing your story to others. Honour how the relationship made you feel, and know absolutely that you didn't deserve that.

Thanks again Kevin, Rockin and Liv. You are absolutely right. He made me feel like shit. That is what matters. That is why I left. I am now dedicated to honoring my decision. Onward we go. I know it will be a bumpy ride, but I'm holding on tight and going for the finish line. This is my life to live and to live in color...I like pastels...lavender, turquoise, pinks, lime green...time to start painting!

I asked at a support group tonight by famous question, "how do I know it was/is abuse or manipulation." The answer I received from several women---because it gives you pause and makes you questions yourself....
I begged everyone to tell me that I was too sensative, crazy, etc.
When i asked the professionals if it was abuse, it was very hard for them to say yes---I don't thnk they really can. They asked over and over how I felt and then told me that everyone has the right to feel good and be supported...
I guess (even though I struggle with it still) it doesn't matter what the action is that much----it is how you feel when you receive the treatmetn...and for me the biggest thing was that there was no remorse---there may have been token gifts or weird make up activities....but never "I am sorry I said or did x to you.".....unitl now when I am gone and he needs to get me back...
Sorry- I am recently out and am dealing with trying not to be angry, but I think it is part of the process to some degree.
Just know you deserve to be cared for, respected, and treated equally to all.

Hi Itwist... I must say, that you are not alone in this category and that what every wonderful person has said is true. If you have become so hurt by the things that he has done and said, it is abuse...

I often wonder, too, if I am truly being "abused" compared to many of the strong willed individuals on this page... I have only been physically "abused" a couple of times, I am called hurtful things... but usually only in the heat of an argument... I'm accused of everything under the sun, but is that because he "loves me so much?" He tells me I'm pretty, buys me flowers every now and then but now we never really talk... I mean... am I crazy? I understand you completely when you wonder if you are truly being abused... You are not alone. I must tell you how PROUD we are of you though for being so strong and moving on with your life!

In all honesty (my own opinion) the fact that you were at a point in this relationship where you were unsure if he was abusive, but knew things were not right and that is not how you should feel, and you had the courage and strength to leave THAT... Just imagine what you saved yourself from had you stayed... Imagine how much worse it could have gotten... But now, you can paint your picture and live a life free of abuse because of your strength to leave before it got any worse! I'm not saying, at all, that what you endured was not abuse, it truly was! But you had the strength to leave and that takes a lot of strength! Very proud of you!

Itwist ----

If the person who took a vow
to love, cherish and honor
you instead perpetrates a
pattern of being MEAN to you. . .. . . .

That is ABUSE.

The vows to love and honor
have been violated.
The contract entered into
has been broken.

His being mean to you
is ABUSIVE.

Have you visit the women's center
nearest to you? If not, please
consider doing that. There is
valuable information there
and you'll likely find lots of
different kinds of support.

You might also consider
doing the exercise I developed
when I was at a similar place
in my marriage as you are now.
I'll bump that thread for you.

Finally, practice SELF-CARE.
It helps, every day.

Sending you hugs
and healing prayers.

I picture a glass figurine. It's elegantly carved, intricate, beautiful. Let's say... a swan, neck curved in a graceful arch, wings outstretched, each feather sculpted with careful attention to detail. And a baseball. Simple, sturdy, and rugged. A sphere. Fun and reliable.

If someone chooses to play catch with the swan, and not the baseball, that swan's in for a beating. It'll likely never be the same. Similarly, there's not much point in simply displaying a baseball. It's a ball.

The important thing is - they chose to be careless and agressive with the swan. Is it the swan's fault for being too sensitive, too delicate? For not being a baseball?

The right person will know who you are, and enjoy your being part of their life - RESPECTING AND VALUING WHO AND WHAT YOU ARE. And if you're a swan, don't go letting them blame you for breaking off a wing because they can't figure out the best way to treat you. The way you deserve and want to be treated.

Itwist,
I agree with everybody else 100%
He was horrible. Maybe he wasn't so bad with the name calling, but actually he is calculating, clever and way worse than name calling. He got you your dream for you---You must have told him it was your dream--
Then took it away---WAY, WAY worse than name calling.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))

Gem, I am freaking out. I am convinced its all my fault. I believe if I had not gone into a depression, I would never have seen the "mean" side of him.

His first wife was bi-polar and he claims she was bedridden 7 of the 14 years they were together and he took care of her. He claims they had sex only once.

During our last conversation he reminded me of him wasting his life with her and how he wasn't going to be celibate....blah, blah, blah.

I guess he thinks because I got depressed for a few months I would end up like her.

I wish I could just push the "stop" button on my brain. The over-thinking and over-analyzing is just circular at this point, and now it's me, not him, driving me to the brink.

How does one stop torturing themselves?

I hate to say this, but it seems as it happens a lot. Really, it is not your fault. Go back and read ALL of your posts and pretend this is your best friend telling you this is happening to her.
He IS an abuser. You have to start focusing on yourself and stop the over-analyzing. It will make you crazy. The fog will clear the longer you are away from him and you will be able to see the abuser for what he really is. Just hang in there. It will get better. For now, as I said, focus on yourself and do something special for yourself every day.
I really wish you luck !!!!

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I also look at it this way - I used to say "If she hit me, it would have been much easier to see what was going on." And I think I have read that same comment from dozens of people in the year and a half I have read this message board. Same goes with name calling - you would almost prefer that because you would recognize the abuse sooner and get out quicker.

Itwist, please read the article on abuse posted by kazb. It is so spot on. The smart abusers are the hardest to spot. And letting go of who you thought he was and the dreams you had is extremely hard. All that waits on the other side is cold, hard reality. I know. Subtle abusers are the ones that make you doubt your sanity and are, in my opinion, the most insidious.

What he says about his first wife is CLASSIC abuser talk, blaming his problems and what he didn't get on someone else. And being a kind and humane person, you saw his emptiness and had compassion for it. You're normal, he is not!

But given the smokescreening tactics they employ, it takes a lot for us to read between the lines and say, "Hang on, this doesn't quite add up."

To give you some examples, I have known guys who tried to garner pity by claiming to be the knight in shining armour just waiting on a damsel in distress from another abusive relationship to come to him and be saved. The real situation? They blamed the women continuously for not leaving the other guy, called them b*tches, said they "weren't all they were cracked up to be," and worse. If they were really caring, they would not have let their ego into the equation. Sometimes there's no narcissist like an apparent altruist!!

And yeah, another huge trend among these people is a preference for the next youngest hottest 'thing' (puke, puke). They can be an average, plump, balding guy past his prime, but they will lap up the adoration of these young hotties like a dog. But that doesn't mean it's love; FAR from it!! Should these young women make too many demands or falter in their worship, they will be tossed aside like empty drinks cans too.

Never forget; a narcissistic abuser only picks PREY. They NEVER seek a strong equal and loving partner like you and I. Those sterling qualities are not in their wish list, ever.

Take comfort and I am thinking of you xx

I'm so sorry you're going through this. The others have offered some great advice, please don't minimize what you've been through.

It's hard not to question yourself, we've all been there, question marks flying everywhere! It's apart of the crazy-making they bring to our lives.

Everyone has a story, no two the exact same, but similar in nature! Point is he treated you shitty, and treating others in a poorly, damaging way is abuse.

Don't be sorry for babbling. Babble all you need to! It's all apart of healing. I bet you be kept alot of this to yourself for a while. Get it out:)