Possumlady...

He's always going to post the blame and guilt on you - that's how my H has done it..He's verbally abused me for over 5 years now (with this year incl physical abuse) and I started to believe and realize that no matter how I waited, or gave him space, or tried to talk with him, or even pushed him to talk--never worked..the last chance for us is counseling that way there's a mediator. But the funny thing is...even though there is counseling if there are issues of abusive behavior or other issues...he has to want to change or be different otherwise...going through the motions of counseling will be a waste of time. Things may subside for awhile here or there, but his abusiveness will start up again. I wonder - does he have any addictions? What does he do when he comes home?

I too grew up in a very physically abusive family and have had issues with being close to others etc....but that still hasn't stopped me from loving my H, my kids etc...but my H will always try to make it like I am the POS, worst mom and human being etc... and it's more because he's guilty himself or pushing his guilt on you. If he wants to talk..he can.

If he is refusing counseling then that's the biggest sign of him hiding something or being even more guilty of other things because for better or worse, that's what he signed up for and if he can't go in with a counselor he just knows he can't manipulate and silence you any more as the counselor will see beyond that.

You're not alone...read my post too "I know it's abuse..."

I like what mach said.

I have read a fair bit of your stuff, and the fact is that your H is never going to take any responsibility for anything. Not only does he not take responsibility for the hurt he has caused you or for his part in the relationship "difficulties", he is now having you take responsibility for how much he talks? Really?

So you now have to apologise for everything you've ever done, probably for breathing wrong (I hope you did apologise for all the times you breathed in the wrong direction), but you also have to assume that you have hurt him again and approach him about it because heaven forbid he should have to actually approach YOU about something that he thinks is hurtful to HIM. So I guess you should just randomly approach him every hour or so and ask if there's anything you've done to hurt him in the last hour so that you can apologise for it? And then, once you've done that, you have to beg him to please say hurtful things to you in order to make him feel better.

I call bollocks to that. It's hurtful, it's controlling, it's lack of responsibility, it's blame shifting, it's unhelpful, it's ABUSE!

Forget the couples counsellor, make sure you are getting some decent therapy/counselling yourself and make plans to walk away from taking responsibility for absolutely everything.

"""""""""""""""""""""Any thoughts?"""""""""""""""""""


[1] You are with an abuser.

[2] There are no techniques
to make life with an abuser
truly safe, certainly not bearable.

[3] Couple counseling in an abusive
marriage only provides the abuser a
safe environment ----- NOT the victim.

[4] Anytime you talk with your abuser
you are putting yourself at risk for
further emotional and physical
abuse.

As long as YOU have to apolgize, grovel and beg forgiveness, he has your attention taken away from HIS behaviors. Your relationship is an emotional one-way street, and I hope you keep right on walking out of there.

What everyone else said!!

I made the mistake of thinking couples counseling would give me a safe environment as well, and boy was I wrong!! I came out of there feeling even more invalidated, dismissed and abused than before. Couples counselors are not trained to deal with abusive situations. And any one that IS will in good conscience tell you that you and your abuser should NOT be in counseling together, but separate!

There is a whole thread about this somewhere. Many of us have made that same mistake.

Read Codependent No More and go see a therapist on your own. It is HIM not you!!! He has the issues. He is projecting his own short comings onto you. Do your research. Stealth narcissism.

That's a terrible feeling - feeling insulted or put down and the best the offender can say is "I'm sorry, but..." Sometimes you don't even get the "I'm sorry." Of course, being a caring, empathetic person, you actually question yourself, just to be sure. And after dealing with this for awhile, you begin to wonder if there actually *is* something you are doing wrong. And then something makes you realize that you have been falling in that subtle and slowly deepening trap, but your self-esteem is already crushed.

What he is asking is NOT reasonable. You shouldn't have to apologize for yourself if he is unwilling to apologize unconditionally for his verbal abuse.

I agree with what everyone else said. I've read the things that have happened too.
He is a grade A, crazy-making abuser. I know he's been using the "relationship talks" to abuse you, and he's just doing that again.

No. Of course you shouldn't be responsible for him dealing with his problems. No! You don't need to push him to talk about it (especially since you know he will just use it as an excuse to release the floodgates of verbal abuse!) And yes--an apology is fine (if you actually did something wrong, which I suspect that you didn't many times) , but then it's his responsibility to work through things on his own, without verbally abusing you.

Your marriage is already on the rocks, and it's NOT your fault!

My H also used to use the "feeling" talk in order to verbally abuse me. Of course, whenever I tried to alert him to his verbal abuse he would go on and on about how selfish I am for not being a "good listener" and listening to his venomous crap. (often after I HAD been listening to the same lecture that I'd heard a hundred times--for hours!)

Talking about feelings and working through arguments is good to do in a normal relationship--but his goal isn't to work through things and have a harmonious marriage-- it's to maintain an imbalance of power which entails you bending over backwards to try to please him as he continues to raise the bar and also verbally abuse you whenever he wants.

Maybe seeing a counselor would help you to put things into perspective and build a little strength and clarity for you. You deserve someone to listen to you and support you too--a counselor could help.

The only thing I ever did that helped to release me from his circular arguments and verbal abuse was to walk away and refuse to talk to him about almost anything. This is hardly the formula for a good marriage, but it got him out of my head long enough to start figuring out what was going on and how much more stable and balanced I feel when not around him.

Wow, I am going through the same thing as you but my husband agreed to go for marriage counseling. We went to our first session and he is even more angered with me. You may want to read my journal, our counselor seen right through him. He blames me for everything and does not take any responsibility. My h said that he asked me to go for marriage counseling a long time ago and I said once you go and deal with your issues first, then we can go. He did go to see a counselor and she said that nothing was wrong with him, he needs a marriage counselor. So he quit. The marriage counselor said that she could not understand how that counselor could say that nothing's wrong with him. She said if they would have questioned him more they would have noticed that he has anger issues, a drinking problem etc. This made me feel good that someone else recognized that. She said if he does not go see a counselor to deal with his anger issues then marriage counseling is in his hands. This was on Friday Nov 25 when we went. Since that Friday, he has given me more of the silence treatment/cold shoulder, has been drinking every night does not call to say where he is. Like you I keep apologizing and the more I do it the angrier he becomes. I get upset for apologizing but all I want to do is keep the peace. He said if he had a job he would have moved out long ago so the counselor asked him so whats stopping you from getting a job and leaving. He had no response. Last night was the last straw; he came home at 330am drunk and had been driving. He knows that I hate that but he does it more to pisssssssssss me off. I told my husband if we can't fix our marriage by spring we will sell the house and go our separate ways, I believe that he thinks I'm not serious but the fact is I will. Today I'm taking a big step, to me anyway, I am not going home after work, I am going out with my girlfriends shopping, normally I rush home but not this time, he says he doesn't want to come home well I don't want to go home either. You have to question yourself, do you want to be treated the way he is treating you for the rest of your life? You deserve better. Have you gone for counseling for yourself? If you were to go then you would understand that he is emotionally abusing you and you have done .

He is trying to blame you for the problems in your marriage as well as not taking ANY reponsibility for his behavior/abuse. Marriage counseling is not going to help. In fact it often makes bad matters worse when it comes to abusive relationships. He is also trying to get you to take responsibility for his feelings. You couldn't do that if you tried. That is his responsibility not yours.
You are not a coward but he is with his blameshifting and manipulation.

Here's a p.s. to my initial response:

It's NOT YOUR responsibility
to resolve anything in his life,
certainly not in his psyche.

THAT'S my persepctive.