I'm just curious did he ever bother to tell you what he loves about you? Or why he wants to work it out other than growing old together? I ask just so highlight one thing I try to remember in each of my conversations with my spouse. My issues are never I.pprtant enough for him to actually truly answered.
Just hold on and keep taking care of you.
Another thought .... mine is like a mirror... if I need space soon he will need space. If I was offended he is somehow offended. Could this be what urs is doing?

Yeah he said I am loving, caring, an excellent mom, hard worker, always has his back. He reminded me how we had the same core values and why we fell in love in the first place - family-oriented, both educated, good morals, both catholic, etc. He also said he realized when I first pushed for the separation, he overreacted and used a lot of "I" statements and seemed just concerned about having to move out, being a single dad, getting an apartment,... But that this is not his main reasons for not wanting to divorce.

My thinking is, I try and put myself in his shoes - if he came to me and said he wanted a divorce, my first reaction would be that I would feel crushed - thinking back to the time when I was in love with him of course. So, if he is just NOW "getting it" and truly was in love with me in a loving way, then why wasn't his first reaction like that? Why, instead, did he first get mad and stand his ground and refuse to move out?

And yes, mine is a mirror too. He also told me he doesn't feel like I've been a partner to him, and how I didn't communicate well enough and how we both drifted apart.

Interesting.

You indicated you wanted closeness (by kissing him) and he responds with... gladness? No, you're apparently a bad person, violating him by expressing yourself.

You ask if he loves you, and he 'can't' answer, hurting you. You start to get settled with the knowledge that he doesn't love you, and he pops up with I'll love you forever.

'If we're not going to try to fix things, we can't go on like this' I read as pressure to make a decision now.

I also spot a "He LET me go out with friends..." and a lot of confusion and self-blaming. As well as a recognition that when he's out of your life, you're relaxed and not stressed.

Just pointing out what I see here.

you initiated the closeness personally I can see his point depending..
I'm not sure what your husband actually did?
do you think the therapy is working?
separation doesn't have to be forever but someone does need to actually move out. I would talk to your therapist.

I think you've got a case of 'cold feet'. The difficulty of divorce and all that goes with it are becoming closer to becoming reality and you are questioning your decisions. Understandable anxiety. Go back over the reasons you have for wanting a divorce........ then nudge yourself into making whichever choice is best for you.

I agree w Bax and the others.

This is just MHO. I think you are confused bc you are used to living with push back over every statement and decision. Sunday you didn't get push back (well, until you got home) and this felt so liberating, so much a dose of what you've wanted all along that you start to reassess. However, I think this comes back to lowering of expectations. For him not to harass you about something so basic felt like a profession of devotion, when in reality this is the bare minimum. So when he starts the push back you're still back on feeling so grateful for the lack of abuse earlier. The history with an abuser is they tell you you're asking too much among other things. So you go into old patterns of thinking and it's not hard for you to believe that perhaps this ration he just gave you really SHOULD be enough.

What I've come to say to my H is his actions are not in proportion to the severity of the issue. I see that here. While he doesn't know about your intentions, he knows something is up. Perhaps a new wave of calm as you anticipate the future. Regardless you aren't responding as you used to. He may just be reacting to the uncomfortableness of feeling he's lost some control so he gives you a small ration. Do you feel his actions are in proportion to the feelings of neglect you've expressed?

I see several things in his statements. You kissing him felt weird and he needs space. Abusers need to be in control and are uncomfortable when they feel a loss of it. You responded unexpectedly so he naturally would feel out of control. I'm thinking that the feelings he's talking about are regarding the lack of control and less about the actual kissing. Just a thought. My H is also not good with words so it would also make him feel on the spot to have to express this. However, I would expect that if he truly does love me he would not want me to hurt and would show with his actions that my feelings impact him at some point in the near future if he couldn't on the spot.

I wonder if in part you are feeling guilt. You are keeping this "secret" from him and while it's necessary it still makes you uncomfortable. While you may have optimism about what could be without him, could it be that you also have much anxiety? Is it possible that even subconsciously you are looking for a reason to not face your own unknown? Understandable BTW. I can just relate to a lot of what you're saying so just passing along some things I've realized.

My H has recently started to react in a more agreeable way and it is tiring to constantly feel your feet knocked out from under you when it takes so long to come to any kind of resolve in the first place.

Nothing wrong; you are having normal feelings towards someone you originally wanted to spend your life with. Probably better to base your decision to divorce or not on what kind of life you will actually live, not to base the decision on your feelings, and then let your feelings be whatever they want to be. Feelings are complicated in abuse, because first of all we had initially good feelings, they were abused, but we stick to those feelings and there is no shame in that. To make matters more confusing, there is traumatic bonding. So, it's better to base our decisions on what is happening rather than what we are feeling. And remember, you always have a choice. Even if you decide to divorce now, if he really does change down the road, you can always get back together.

I think the fact that you felt relaxed when he wasn't around is very telling. I can totally relate!

so, you're flying through the bermuda triangle minding your own business when you suddenly spot a parallel universe where conversations aren't games and questions like "do you love me" don't take 2 hours to answer, so you aim for the vortex that took atlantis, hypnotized by the image of happiness. isn't that what happens to everyone in the bermuda triangle?

why were his first thoughts about himself? because he's self centered.
why has he waited so long to be perfect like he was on sunday? because he didn't have to lure to in to reject you again, you were already there.
why does he say he understands now? because you zig, he zags.
why didn't he answer when you asked what he loves about you? because he couldn't come up with something that gave you nothing in a nice enough way that you confused it for something worth doing anything for. (i'm going to have that embroidered on a pillow)

heres what your post tells me:
you are so starved for a connection and some kind of life with this man that 4 hours of respect sends you on a tailspin of emotion and starts you ever questioning the divorce.
you are trying so hard to find some redemption in this relationship you feed him lines from the "stuff humans say to other humans who love other humans" guidebook and make yourself ask if he loves you, only to have him respond 'you're not the boss of me!' and come back later with a rehearsed snippet from page 25 of aforementioned handbook. it's right after the "you complete me" speech from 'jerry maguire.' this is the romantic equivalent of setting your shirt sleeve on fire while cooking and then sitting on the couch for 3 hours before panicking about it.

i mention these things only to say that you, my friend, have lost some perspective. of course its normal to hesitate before you pull the trigger, this is big. of course your heart grieves one more time for the life you thought you were gonna have. of course he has that super psychic ability all abusive assholes seem to have that makes him able to know the weak points and tip you when you're are barely balanced. all these things fighting against your intellect and gut, do you really have to help it along? he gives you one lousy afternoon and that's supposed to mean something to you? spread out over the relationship that's like a nano second a week. sounds about right.

don't see these things and be jerked around, see them for what they are.NOT ENOUGH. it's not enough to say oh yeah i love you 12 hours later. it's not enough to be decent for a minute and a dick the rest of the time. it's not enough that you already accept that he sucks with words and affection and yet STILL disappoints your low expectations. not enough not enough. you are more than this. it hurts to feel that he doesn't love you. don't stop there. he is the one who is hurting you by not loving you. this is not a sad realization its an active insult. you're not simply being insulted he's shooting them at you. the question for him isn't why do you love me but why do you love me this way?

you can hold on to the papers until he pisses you off again, which will probably be by the end of this sentence. or you can read your post again and see what he has convinced you is acceptable is not, and one lunch does not a marriage make. have compassion for the you in that post, and the you that went through hell to get those papers in the first place. and then paper cut the crap out of him.

What they all said.

The thing that leapt out at me the most was a sense (and I know I'm overstating it, but doing so deliberately) that, because he "let" you go out for one afternoon, that means the marriage is worth saving, you acted too hastily in going and seeing an attorney and getting papers drawn up, and maybe you should give it another go.

Really? Because he "let" you go out? Once? Since when should you need his permission EVER to go out? Yes, I understand that in abusive relationships we practically need their permission to breathe - but we shouldn't.

We get so trained, we have our expectations managed down to such an extent, that them "letting" us do something once that we should never have needed permission for in the first place becomes a big thing.

Then there was the kiss. He's been making out that he wants this thing to work, that he can't stand to see you leave - even that he wants sexual relations again. Yet when you kiss him in a moment of happiness, he says it made him feel "weird". Wow, I'm being bowled over by the romance there. The truth is that, as Godis said, it felt "weird" because he was not the one in control of that moment. I wouldn't mind betting it also on some level occurred to him that the reason you kissed him in the moment is because you were happy and relaxed - and you were happy and relaxed in that moment because you'd had time AWAY from HIM. So, he "let" you go out with friends, and this is how you repay him? By acting as if you have some control over your own life, and acting as if you can be happy without his presence? How dare you!

And yes, the thing about whether he loves you and why is just awful, for the reasons others have stated.

It's perfectly normal to have second thoughts, to wonder if you are doing the right thing. This is a big decision. But ... have you done Ilene's index card exercise? If you have, then now is a time to pull out the cards and read them. If you haven't, then maybe start, or at the least, reread some of your journals and older posts here, just to get back on track that his "allowing" you one afternoon is not the solution to anything.

Ugh I don't know if I'm more mad, sad or scared at myself for not seeing things the way you all have made so clear. I get so frustrated that I can't see clearly and always fall for his shit. I'm embarrassed!

I Am worth more than one friggin lunch! And Anything he does now will not erase what he's done and had continued to do over the last few months.

I never looked at my kissing him and making him feel weird as the way you all describe - that He wasn't in control of the situation. And then this morning comes and he kisses me goodbye?! And says, u don't have to kiss me if u don't want to?! Mind games!! Playing on my sympathies!!

God! Even writing it all out it sounds so insane!

I'm always SO appreciative for the support I receive here. It gives me such clarity. I really hope with continued IC I'll be able to be ME again, find out who that is and enjoy life. I'm sick of living this way. Waiting for scraps from him. Im Better Than This!!

I guess it's just such a huge decision. But I certainly didn't take it lightly. I guess I needed this to prove once again, what I'm doing IS right. Not easy. But Right.

Thank you! Thank you!

And now congratulate yourself for standing up tall and straight over such a short period of time!

You have nothing to be embarrassed over sweetie! You were only doing what you've been trained to do. You learned to do this out of survival, not preference. He isn't a bad habit, you were brainwashed.

The mind games are sooooo there. He feels weird when you kiss him and his response is to kiss you??? Control, control, control to make you lose your mind, mind, mind. It's 5 year old stuff. Jimmy doesn't want the ball until Alex has it. He screams bloody murder until he gets it and 10 minutes after Alex leaves he throws that ball at someone's face bc he doesn't want it anymore.

You all have helped me too!!!

Eh, it's always easier to spot how someone else is being manipulated. If it were easy to spot, it wouldn't be so effective, ya? Glad to help you pep up!

Glad you got some perspective on this, Notmyself. I get sucked in by the same things. It takes so little for my head to start spinning with "what am I doing?", "maybe he really has changed" and "wow for 10 minutes he acted like a great dad, why should I leave now?" kinds of thoughts.

It's that rocking boat that Vern posted about a couple days ago. Just when you're almost off of it, he throws you a line and reels you back in, just to subject you to some more seasickness, hoping you'll get so sick this time that you won't be able to climb off yourself!

My therapist once said "he's probably been acting half decent and you're so used to the horrible treatment that it seems like he's being a great guy". So true. Hugs!

I hate that feeling the most...UNCERTAINTY!!!

Yup! Even when I try to stay true to no contact I get pulled back in. I read everyones posts and I have to say they were spot on. But, I know how your feeling and how it sucks so bad...It's the dream of what it was supposed to be...like you envisioned "married life"...I'm so very sorry sweetie. I can't offer great advice because I fight these same damn feelings everyday...I was just where you are a few months ago, so it's still very fresh...I felt your happiness with you when you came home...and then reality sets in...it was just a dream...a very bad dream...

I'm sooooo glad you wrote your post! All the wonderful advice applies to so many of us...I am grateful to our friends for always giving us strength...

YOU are doing just fine, these moments and feelings seem to get a bit easier with time and honest
encouragement.

"HUGS"

you know it's like stockholm syndrome of the heart.

'thank you for not killing me, kidnapper whose been keeping me in a closet, i could tell when you were kicking me your heart wasn't in it. you didn't even use the steel tipped boots this time! and thank you so much for cleaning that rag you gag me with, that was really thoughtful.'