Glad to hear it.

When you post here,
you constantly express
feelings of confusion.

What does your therapist
say about your mother's
behavior patterns?

Also, what is your therapist's
educational background,
clinical specialty and
choice of therapeutic
approaches?

She hasn't tried to talk me out of stopping contact. Her specialty is child psychology, she helped my sons through their own abuse, at the hands of their brother, but I just really liked her and asked if she would counsel me.

(I also should have
asked how long you've
been working with her.)

I'm really glad that
she's helped your
sons.

And liking a counselor
is part of a good
therapeutic relationship.

I'm concerned, however,
based on a number of
things you've said
and also on the
overall tone of your
posts and responses,
that the skill set of
this clinician is not
a good match for
what you need
right now.

Her specialty generally
focuses on a different
set of insights than
what, in my opinion,
you need at this
moment and also,
going forward.

I'm not saying here
that she can't provide
any amount of support
to you, but based on
your constant expression
of confusion. . . . . it would
appear that working with
this counselor is not
providing you the understanding
and stability that someone
with the specialty of
dysfunctional family systems
or recovery from abuse
might be able to provide you.

I say this because based
on what you've shared with
us here, there are really
few mysteries about your
mother or what possible
ways would be useful in
responding her abuse.
Many responses here
are giving you more
information about
abusive parenting,
than apparently
your counselor has.

First,
you don't necessarily
need to go no contact
with your mother, though. . . .
from the perspective of
your own recovery, that
would be one of the most
effective approaches, and
if you were my client, that's
what I would strongly recommend.
If you want your son's to
have connection with their
toxic grandmother, that's
another question to be
addressed.

And you don't even need
to change therapists, though,
speaking from my own personal
and professional experience,
that's what I would strongly
recommend.

It just sounds, based
on the sum of your
posts here, that this
therapists is NOT
providing you the
insights, skills
and strategies
that would help
stabilize and
eventually
IMPROVE your
emotional life.

That's my perspective
on your situation.

Sending you hugs
and wishes for
clarity and better
days ahead.

I agree with you completely, I'll talk to her in a couple weeks and see if she can recommend another colleague. My confusion all stems from needing her approval and constantly mimicking her feelings. From a distance it's semi-easy to see the errors but when on the phone or in front of her I lose all faith in myself. This no contact is not to punish, not to hurt in any way(the guilt is pretty huge) but so I can stop taking on her views and her feelings and focus on finding my own views. Also to stop needing her approval and stop getting hurt and mad when she doesn't have my back. Confused is an understatement right now lol. I just feel like my head is spinning with the back and forward feelings between guilt, anger and my personal boundaries. Thanks for the advice. I've often thought this of my therapist, she's an amazing lady and I saw her work wonders with my sons.

There are reasons you are confused, that you feel vulnerable, guilty, become the receptacle for her emotions, and feel the pain of her disapproval. It is because your mother is the queen of gaslighting! I mean-wow, she's pretty darn good. It is no wonder to me what-so-ever that you feel the way you do when and after speaking to your mother. In my opinion pretty much anyone would, first of all. Second of all there's many years of patterns developed-you could think of it as you've been molded over a long time to respond a certain way. That is totally normal, unfortunately, with abuse. This is one reason why it's easier to figure out and practice ways of dealing with certain difficulties while you are not experiencing them at the same time.

You are not an idiot-you are trying to do something that is very difficult. Your difficulties not being sucked in by your mother, and this emotional turmoil which occurs when you are don't have anything to do with an incapacity reason things out, or keep your whits about you or anything like that. You exercise those capabilities every day in other situations. It's that to do that with someone like your mother is extraordinarily difficult. She knows your buttons, and she knows exactly when to press them. So please, give yourself some credit for doing the best anyone could do in that situation, and know you have the capability to keep yourself safe from your mother's onslaught within you. You'll just learn new strategies to do it. This takes time. You are already doing the work and taking the steps, and it's hard work. You will FEEL this strength, this confidence in time-but it's not a straight line. It's worth it in the end. It's often worth it along the way too.

This is what you have to deal with:

1) You wanted No Contact-she knew it and she broke it with an excuse about bringing a gift to your sons. Boundary violation.

2) She lied regarding her excuse for calling you. When caught in a lie she changed the subject-I'm guessing to something you did wrong, or a baited you in some way. Typical abuser gaslighting trick. Abusers are not interested in truth-they only care about deflecting your accusations of their abuse. They will tell you the sky is blue and then ten seconds later insist it's been green along and they'd never tell you any different. Feels like your going crazy. "Lie, what lie? Look-quick! Did you see that over there? No? Okay, back to why you should do what I want you to do......"

3) She lied about the meme too as well as having done that to spite you-which she admitted when she said " it was for all kids, not just yours" So she DID it intend it as a crack at you, and she minimized it again. She's making you doubt your interpretations of her actions while admitting to them at the same time. She is GOOD at this! She wants you to parent the way she sees fit and she is punishing you for not doing that. That is about as perfect of an example of an abusive behavior as you can get. Abusers hurt others to try and assert control. And she will do it every single time you don't comply (although I am sure she is lovely at times when you're towing her line and she's getting her way).

I highly doubt you will EVER in your lifetime get the validation from her you clearly need. She will ALWAYS spin you around-that keeps her in power and you unbalanced. You can want it so badly. You can try everything under the sun to get it. I tried everything to get what I needed from my ex-pleasing him, standing up for myself, backing off, trying to reason with him, being assertive, being passive, comprising, created boundaries, placated him, challenged him, I threw everything I had at the problem because I just wanted him to stop hurting me. But nothing ever worked because all he was concerned about was not losing that power he wanted more than he wanted my happiness. Accepting this and that none of it was my fault is a hard pill to take. I thought I was in some measure of control over the situation while at the same time got myself stuck in a corner, helpless to get out. Moving on from that truth takes work. We can validate you, we can remind you that its not YOU and that you don't deserve it, that your responses to abuse are normal for many victims, and there is a life outside of that you can be a part of. A good therapist can make a world of difference as well, and one trained in trauma, or abuse would be the best specialty.

I know the meme was intentional, I mean I won't ever know because she will never admit it, but my gut says she did. Do they know exactly what they are doing at all times? Like this strategy of firm, weak, up and down and every which way that keeps you on your toes or is this a grasp? I mean I've been guilty of being insensitive but when the light bulb goes off I'm quick to accept and acknowledge it and apologize if necessary. Is their brain on a different frequency?

She did admit to one thing but my cynical side makes me wonder if she only admitted it because my best friend and sister can attest to it.

I feel guilty for leading her on granted she barged right in and just kinda took over and before I knew it I was apologizing to her for my feelings. She is good lol. Well I sent a text to my dad saying sorry for placing him in the middle but to pls not encourage her to fix things. No response and that was several hours ago. I'm chasing him, I'm not going to come between a man and wife. If he texts great if not I will text him for Xmas.

Well my dad has gone to the dark side. I have to laugh because I don't know what else to do. I caught my mom in a stupid lie, she said that my dad wants to cut off Netflix because they don't use it. I said that's fine but if possible I'd like to take over the bill and I'll just write a year subscription check to them. So after our fallout a few weeks ago I figured I'd ask my dad personally if I could take over the bill and he was confused and asked why? I said because mom said you don't use it and he said he uses it?!! So what do you know, after this morning letting my mom know that I need time to myself, I go to turn on Netflix and its disabled lol. So I check my sons devices and sure as shit theirs are disabled as well. I texted good riddance and blocked them from contacting any of us on any devices. I'm not mad my sacrid Orange is the new black is gone, I'm a little sad that the boys got a big old smack in the face but not suprised really, I'm mad that the tit for tat saga continues in the only way her cunning self has. Please cover your eyes if vulgar language offends you but fuck that stupid conniving bitch, she's dead to me.

This was her next step when things didn't go her way, it my dad was so easily manipulated then so be it too. Yes I'm hurt that he chose a side vs not choosing but sadly I sort of can't blame him because he lives with the bitch. 35 and orphaned now. I'm so mad I want to hurt her back, won't do anything but make me regret it and feel ashamed so I'm not biting. I wanted no contact, I was naive as to what she was capable, well not really because in hindsight this is her, she just pulled the same crap in January and cancelled an order I asked her to place for me when I took a much needed break then lol. I have to laugh because if I don't I'll drive myself crazy.

When my sons ask why their Netflix doesn't work i don't even know what to say, honesty? Lie and say it's an error until we get it set up on weds? I have no clue. I should just say "your grandma and I can't get along so she's punishing me by taking away her Netflix" then let them draw their own conclusions.

Hi Jenny,

I am sorry that you are still going through so much.

Have you ever heard that, sometimes, when we are to close to a situation, we are not able to see the whole picture? That is why, people can give us advice, and we are like oh yeah, I didn't think of that, or I didn't see that.

Right now, I think you really need to spend time with just you and your sons. Get away from the whole thing, take a much needed breather. You are consumed with all of this, which I understand, but, you need to take care of you and your sons.

Life can be good Jenny, and I hate to see you missing out on so much of it. Give yourself time.

We cannot control what anyone does, we can only control what we do. You do not need anyone's approval, to have a great day.

You are in my prayers.

Thanks skeer, I know it may look like it but I'm really not mad and am honestly thankful to be going through what I'm going through right now. I mean I would be so much happier and thankful to have a healthy relationship with my mom but given what I'm dealt with this is great timing. I was forced to deal with her for 18 years, I naively (and regretfully) dealt with her for 17 more years by choice. Now, with her help, but really just allowing that light bulb that went off to shine for what it was, I get to live out the rest of my life drama free, abuse free and receive the same love I put out from people capable of loving me. I'm stopping the generational abuse in its track and not to sound rude or ungrateful for what parents did do for me but screw their feelings. My sons growth into happy adults who can love whole-heartedly their spouse and children means more to me than any hope for a relationship with a couple odd balls I call my parents.

This right now is my Ah ha moment, I'm sad I lost my parents but my love for myself and my children clearly outweighs the grief I lost. Now I get to grieve in a healthy way, with the help from a healthy person with my best interest in heart, and I get to learn who I am without her, enjoy my life to the fullest with no shame, guilt or insult. I feel like life is my ride now, her thoughts will be muted and mine will finally be heard fully without anything trying to shut me up anymore.

This decision was a long time coming, my guilt and love for them, my dutiful daughter mentality is gone. They took one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make in my life upon themselves and showed their true colours. I have hope my dad and I will one day reconcile but I'm not blind to the fact that he made a decision without respecting or loving me enough to care to ask what my take was on all this. I love him and will let God handle this one. I can't change anyone, you're right, but I am an adult who get to choose to be happy in life. It's pretty cool as sad as it is that I ever had to make this decision.

Can't say I'm surprised by the petty punishment, and would suspect there will be more where that came from.

I am so sorry about your dad. I know that hurts so much, and I'm not saying its okay-a father should protect their child from abuse and stand up for that and their kid-but just keep in mind he's a victim just like you and many others in your family. You know how effective her abuse can be in getting people to go along with her.

Once that light-bulb goes on things that used to look clean look dirty, and you can never go back to a state of ignorance again. I can hear strength and clarity growing. I mean-look at the clarity about what you want - drama free, abuse free, to break the cycle, to genuinely love and be loved, to raise your boys into whole, healthy men and to not be effected by your parents feelings and actions.

Sometimes it can be so hard just to clear our abuse fog away enough to see a future, to see what we want and what we value, and you've done that. It can serve as your guide for what you will and will not participate in with those around you. You can ask yourself, does doing X line up with what I said I wanted and valued? Nope? Okay-not getting involved in that then! I have every faith that you will take this experience and learn, grow, and move forward. I agree with ya, if they can't act in a loving, healthy way, screw 'em.

Ugh I truly hope that that was the last petty thing she tries. I swear if it happens again I will pack up any thing she's ever given me and drop it off in her driveway lol. I do owe money from some appliances I bought off them so I will just have my cousin give it to them. Then that means nothing will be held over my head and no unforeseen issues of money will ever be a reason to contact me. Unlike my money hungry sister I've never had an interest in blood money so when I get the whole "you're out of the will" I can graciously say thanks for your consideration. This is my only defence is being prepared.

Thank you all again for your wisdom during this difficult time. I would be at my wits end trying to sort through this mess. I will add on a side humours note that my Netflix is up and running as of this morning lol. Orange is the new black is back Bahaha. I hope you all stay as strong as you've shown me and am sending many healing vibes your way ((hugs)))