When I volunteered at my local shelter, I was told that less than 2% of abusers make a change for the better and of those who do, its even less than that % where the change is permanent. But I can't site that any further.

I haven't been able to find any other stats. I think part of why they are hard to find is because 1. not many are actually following up (I don't think the justice system is doing much to help), 2. maybe what stats there are aren't all that great, and 3. only some DV is reported AND we probably don't know how many reported abusers are actually in recovery programs.

Many of the articles I've read recently refers the reader to Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That." I haven't read the book, but I do know he's worked w/abusers for a long time. So you might start there.

From what I have seen, anger management classes and most "classes" for 'batterers' don't get to the root cause(s) of the problem. And ya can't solve a problem unless you get to the root cause.

My personal experience, and that of others I know is that the abuser promises to change and may "change" for a short period of time. But they always revert back. One the the ex's oft used comments to me was that I was bitter and unable to allow the past to stay in the past. My final response to him was that it was hard to leave the past in the past when he continued to do the same things the same way in the present that he did in the past.

I used to teach corporate level change management. What I learned from my education and training is change is hard for all human beings. Its even harder for abusers. Here's why:

Let's take this on an individual case by case basis. Here are the "things" needed to create positive change.

1. We can change ourselves.
2. No one else can cause or help another to change.
3. A person has to WANT to change.
4. A person has to WANT to change for THEMSELVES and not anyone else.

In addition, change takes the following on the part of the person who WANTS TO CHANGE:

1. Awareness & focus
2. A concerted effort over a long period of time - w/an abuser its usually many years
3. Educaiton/guidance/facilitation (especially when it comes to an abuser)
4. accountability & responsibility

Then there are the following issues that contribute to abuse and make it even harder to make lasting positive changes:

1. mental/emotional disorders
2. addictions (especially to drugs/alcohol)
3. childhood abuse

There are also key components in the abuser's recovery process:

1. a QUALIFIED therapist who understands the dynamics & effects of abuse; has modalities that help the abuser get to the root of the behavior AND is trained in modalities that will facilitate healing and change.

2. ongoing treatment/support for the abuser

3. continued effort & want to change on the abuser's part

4. the ability to feel empathy (many abusers don't have this quality) & consistently act in empathetic ways. i.e the abuser HAS to see for themselves how their behavior/actions affects others. And they rarely truly do. If someone continues to apologize by saying "I'm sorry." or "I'm sorry for my part in this," it's a red flag. When we are sorry for something, we usually say, "I'm sorry I said/did...." i.e. we are specific in our description of what we are sorry for. That shows the other person we realize/understand what what we said/did. If we were being empathetic, we would say something like, "I'm sorry I said....., that must have hurt your feelings." And then we try not to do it again. Abusers can mimic this but it usually doesn't last very long before they revert back.

I'm sure there are more things that can be added to these lists, but that's all I can think of right now.


I've been in this group for many years and I've read many posts about the abusers changing, but those changes only lasted hours, days and sometimes months. And there was almost always a subtle discount like, if you hadn't done...I wouldn't have...." Of those who continued to post, the results were that the abuser always reverted back to abusive behaviors.

I can only remember one person who said their abuser changed. And if I remember correctly, from what that person said, the abuser hadn't really changed. They were still being abusive, but the poster had consequences in place so the abuser would respond to all the rules/boundaries the poster had set up and was enforcing. So the abuse may have been short lived, but it sounded like it was continuing. IMHO, that's not a healthy way to live. But of course it's the poster's choice.

I believe in the adage, "past behavior is predictive/indicative of future behavior."

And I believe in trusting our inner knowing above all else. The way we know if its our allowing the abuser to create self-doubt is to not trust our thoughts. Instead trust how our body feels. How does your body feel when you start doubting yourself and/or thinking about being with him. Do you feel happy? Scared? Sad? Nervous? Excited? Our bodies never lie.

You can also do things like Ilene's Index Card Exercise. Make sure you date the cards because it will help you see a pattern & if he's still doing the same old same old, then you'll be able to see it in black and white. That's way harder to deny.

You even said "even though I know deep down he's not going to change." THAT is your inner knowing!!! Trust it!

This is king of off subject but I'm weird that way.

If you want to cook something that requires lots of ingredients but you only have 2 of the 15 ingredients, your food isn't going to resemble anything like what you want it to.

So how can a person change into someone completely different if they don't have all the ingredients (new life skills, the desire to change, the ability to see that they need to change)? You can't It's impossible.

Are you lonely? Don't let that cause you to go back into a relationship that hurt you and caused you so much grief and sadness. Think of what you went through. How it made you feel. Good luck!

change into what, what you met in the beginning, you want them to go back to the person you fell in love with?

thats person doesnt exist, that was fake, what you are experiencing now is real.

fraud/fake/phony all of them, there is no change, he is what he is, and will alter it to get you back

not sure how bad it was or how old you are, but if you really want to know, you'll find a way, i tried, and we had 3 years apart, i ran into him, sold me the new and improved him, within 3 weeks, he was back to his bullshit

best to you, get out now, get around people who promote healthy relations, distant yourself from toxic experiences, you need to see how normal caring people interact. what real love is, they dont love us, none of them, love does not equal abuse, they dont love us, we love them, and they count on that.....be careful

I meant to add that Ilene posted some statistics on DV in general. When I started looking for more recent stats, they are not out there. I even called the Nat'l Coalition Against DV org and they told me that the stats on their website are pretty much the most updated they can find. Part of the reason is that many states don't report DV and won't respond to their requests.

@ reply #s 2, 3 & 4, great responses!

Just my opinion, but a few do change.


BUT those that change only change when they're not in a relationship, and have nothing to gain from changing...other than changing.

In other words, if he stays with you, or gets into another relationship, he's likely to change...for the worse.


If he stops chasing after you, stops looking for a relationship to heal himself, and starts living a life a responsibility. He's got a chance. My guess is that it takes at least one year to start to heal (just like with grief...and yes, he'll need to grieve his former life...grieve each holiday, each anniversary, find and deal with each trigger). At least two to be stable; and to make the changes that need to be made to keep his life stable.

And maybe, maybe if he's been alone, and faced his life, and has only himself to give credit to or blame for the changes he's made...and at the end if he ends up Happy...then he'll be ready to share his life with someone else.


I've known a few that did that. They were all young and had issues in high school or just after. Most swore off women, went to college, and pulled their lives together.

As I said, it took years. Not six weeks.

Thanks, all. These are all good and helpful points. Doing the card clarifying index has helped me.
I did read Lundy Barcroft's book and he didn't cite any actual data but he mentioned as an example that if 1 out of 10 men he worked with changed then it was worth it. I think 1 out of 10 sounds way way too optimistic and I was surprised he used that, even as a theoretical example.

It's just so hard for me to wrap my mind around a person treating another as an object. I can't comprehend how my stbx never really loved me and was basically just playing me for seven years. Sometimes it seemed like we had a genuine relationship but based on everything I've read and heard, the "good" parts were just games and illusions. It seems so evil and incomprehensible.
I agree with MTC that trusting your inner knowing above all is really the best way to sort things out.

Hi, *TW*, I suppose...

I'm afraid to post here because as someone said to me in a different thread but on this board, I'm the source of a lot of the pain here.

I emotionally abused my wife for years. I could go into a litany of reasons, justifications or excuses of why, but they don't matter. I did it. It hurt her. She is suffering. No excuse.

It's been 6 months, since things came crashing down and that I've finally vowed to change (again). Wait... that's a lie... 5 months.

(So, 6 weeks I could do standing on my head, and in fact, 6 weeks doesn't represent change, it represents dormancy.)

Anyway, I digress. I love my wife dearly, and I hate seeing the depression that she's fallen into as a result of my abuse, and once upon a time I posted here how to support the person whom you in fact put there. I got some great advice from here.

Reply #3, SockIt ToMe, has it right. If they 1. don't know they have the problem and in fact 2. are the problem, then forget 3 and 4. And certainly forget MTC's roadmap for full recovery.

I don't know where I am yet on the road. I do know that I am wanting to change, and I think that if I can be objective (which by definition I can't) I think that change is starting. But after 5 months, still only starting.

I want complete restoration, and that's hard right now while I'm trying to recover and while my wife is trying to recover. So rather than looking for complete restoration, which is so far down the road you can't see it, I'm looking first to provide safety for my wife.

I'm trying to make her feel safe enough to share her feelings, safe enough to yell at me, safe enough to tell me to get the hell out of the house because she can't stand the sight of me right now, safe enough for her to do the same if she wants to.

Maybe once she feels safe, the restoration can really begin.

Promising change, and promising restoration, and promising recovery is impossible. So watch out for rhetoric like that. No one can promise anything. Especially without action. I always promised to change. I'm sorry. It'll never happen again. But it did.

You can't say you're going to make it to the top without wanting to take a few stairs. I didn't even take a step. Heck, I didn't even look for an elevator.

I don't know what I'm contributing to this conversation, especially since mari was looking for statistics, not a story.

So here, bottom line. I bet there are no good statistics on the matter because there is no finish in change. Change takes a lifetime. Change is forever. Change is only proven at the final breath. Just because someone has "been good (or whatever)" for 6 weeks, 6 months, 6 years, have they changed? The answer to each of those is, "Yes, for now." And that's scarier than "maybe" and "no".

@Mari "I can't comprehend how my stbx never really loved me and was basically just playing me for seven years."

This guy told me once that, "A woman may be able to fake an orgasm but a man can fake an entire relationship".

It's way more complex than a person "Changing"

All Humans are a mixture of good and bad. Methods of invalidation are found every where. From a sarcastic role of the eyes to rounding up an entire ethnicity and putting them in concentration camps ( Hitler)

Read "Nasty People" by Jay Carter

The main thing wrong with the main posters on this message board( in my opinion) is you automatically lump ever single poster's "Abuser" into one bucket.

Saying " they do this" " Saying .. " they do that"

Every "abuser" is a human and different than all other humans. They very well may be practicing the method of invalidation. BUT.. that is not their totality.

The only reason anyone would lump them all together is to get more people to sign up for their "Healing modalities"

Every person who comes here needs to make decisions for themselves and realize that their own behavior is playing into the unhealthy dynamic.

If you want to place every single ounce of blame on your "Abuser" you are doing yourself a huge disservice. It's a dynamic.

Now if an abuser like Ted Bundy, snatches you off the street and kills you... That is NOT a dynamic. but the man you married is NOT a Ted Bundy. By trying to lump them all together and not look at your own behaviors.. you will be destined to make the same mistakes over and over again.

In closing. The person who needs to change their behavior the most as in placing boundaries and having healthy reactions is the "Victim"

P.S.

A healthy reaction to any sort of violent behavior is to call the police.

Shasta, I'm curious...why do hang out on this board?

No offense, but I am so so grateful you weren't here two years ago when I was in the throes of an emotionally abusive relationship. I had so many doubts and no clue what was happening. I blamed myself, I went into a major depression. I simply couldn't understand what was happening at the time. His behavior was extremely confusing to me. I tried everything...mostly asking him to sit with me and have a conversation about what was occurring. Didn't help...in fact it made it ten times worse. If I had read some of your responses back then, I believe it would have been even more difficult to sort the situation out.

It makes me sad to think you may be having that kind of effect on some of the recent posters.

I, for one, am ever grateful for Ilene and MTC, and a few others who take time out of their busy days to provide needed insight and guidance to those seeking just that....insight and guidance. And I have never once suspected that any of these ladies hold ulterior motives.

Just needed to get that off my chest...

@Shasta,

What are Healing Modalities?

ITwist, I agree with you. And I will give you advice that someone gave me:

"Don't argue with fools, people won't know the difference".

There are so many people in this life who love attacking and blaming the victim. Although it still bothers me, I find it is best to pray for the ignorant.

In closing, keep striving, thriving and healing. I hope things get better for you.

Wow Shasta. You really are a piece of work.

I have some reading suggestions for you. Start with "Why does he do that," by Lundy Bancroft.

You know I usually enjoy reading your posts in some of the other groups. With the exception of the advice you recently gave to a lady who was seeking guidance on how to best tell a guy she met online that she was not interested in pursuing a relationship with him. She went out with the guy one time and you suggested she make up a lie about how she reconnected with an ex. Really....does that fall within the four corners of the Four Agreements?

In the three years I've been on DS I've only hit "ignore" once. Time to do it again unfortunately.

You know, as I read responses from MTC, along with some of the others that are offering similar ideas, I realize that most of these points apply to me.

When there is talk of the false apology being given, I need to learn not to accept it. Personal responsibility, wanting to change, working to change, taking the time to allow the change to really set in....this ALL applies to me.

I've been working on some of these things for a long time (even when I was in the abusive marriage). Is it possible that if abusers are rarely able to change, the same holds true for those of us who love them, for whatever reason (maybe carry over from childhood trauma for example)?