This post is not at all silly. It is a very keen observation, that disordered people do not possess moral intelligence. It is why Hervey Cleckley called psychopaths "moral imbeciles." He was not being derogatory. It was his best effort at description.

I had numerous experiences with my P ex that were similar, but not quite like this. The main one: For 6 years, I have lived above a diagnosed psychopathic prostitute whose last home was the state mental hospital. Her speech is the most vulgar I have ever heard. She is sex-obsessed and thinks everyone is. She rants and screams, is banned from all the local bars, assaults people and respects no boundaries. When I met P ex, I had lived here 2 years. The woman called me all the time, talking dirty to me, on the phone, about her sexual escapades. She would call at all hours, and come to my door. I never let her in my apt. As I talked to P ex 10 hours a day, every day for a year (before he moved in) I told him about her. He pretended to be all sad and sorry for her, and convinced me to let her into my life. Thus began, a year of abuse of me, my car, my time, my resources, my money, my peace of mind, by her. He continually sympathized with her and urged me to forgive her--for keying my car, assaulting me, harrassing me, and making my home unsafe. Plus, he always wanted the 3 of us to get together, as he said, "because I know you care about her." Bullshit! I can imagine what he was hoping for. Ickkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So yes, no ability to empathize with a nice woman (me) being abused by a psychopathic woman (her) but he sympathized with HER!

Early on, I recall him balking if I ever made a value judgment. He told me that his best friend--a woman--was very promiscuous and described her adventures to me when the 2 of them went on vacation together. I said I found that a sad lifestyle or some such thing, and he said, "I don't judge anyone." I actually felt, at the time, he was superior to me because I DO make value judgments. However, he had portrayed himself to me as a celibate lonely recluse, so...I thought he had morals, but in fact, he was a an Internet catfish having sex with multiple victims. Of course, he felt an aversion to value judgments. They reflected upon HIM.

Basically he sided with wrong vs. right, consistently. He sided with evil vs. good.

One time, he went to church with me. He was 58 years old and he said he had never been in a church before, except for his mother's funeral. At the time, I attended a U.U. church, which is hardly churchy, more like a peace and love rally. The man was so unomfortable and terrified-looking. It was the strangest thing I have ever seen. I have NEVER seen a person terrified of church before.

We watched the Denzel Washington movie "Mo Betta Blues. In it, the Denzel character buys both of his girlfriends the same red dress in Paris. That Christmas, D bought me and his ex-wife (with whom he was having an affair behind my back) the same New Yorker datebooks engraved with our names.

So P's are very much attuned to, aligned with, and sympathetic to, evil and immoral deeds, ways, and people. They are very uncomfortable with good, love and purity, even critical of it.

And in your story, unable to even grasp it, which might explain discomfort with it.

Well I don't know if this would qualify with what you are talking about but what I can say is no matter what his daughter did to me, I was just suppose to forgive her and move on. She literally called me a bitch in the hospital while he was recovering because she told me via text, "you can leave now" and I wouldn't move after that. NO matter what she did, I was always suppose to forgive her because he did, no matter how she treated people.

This last time I recently found out that his son told him that when I was on the phone with someone he overheard me tell them that I was upset because if something happened to my ex that I wouldn't get anything. It was a lie, he made it up and his son and I were never in the same room together except once which was the night he was admitted and I wasn't on the phone. He only came to the hospital once, I was there since he got admitted, I was the only one there for him, day in and day out, and my ex believed him. He says he doesn't, but his whole family lies, so I didn't know when I was coming or going anymore. My mind was manipulated and tortured almost on a daily basis when I was in the hospital.

I believe this is what became the demise of our relationship.

I saw that movie, a long time ago when it first came out. It's definitely unique and thought-provoking. I have a different take on your bf's reaction, though it could be completely off-base. He might have known that you were quite excited about sharing it with him and he pretended to find it pointless just to drive you mad (crazy-making). They do that, too.

Rosenkranz, that was my initial thought, too. But it just fit that of all movies we ever watched, THIS would be the one he didn't understand. Even if I'm wrong, I'm taking it. :p

Well I have to say mine isn't a psychopath but I have a story to share in this category tooo. He just doesn't get why legitimately "borrowing" things and then never actually returning them is a problem. Um hello isn't that still called stealing? Tools are the worst but it could be hedge trimmers, hair trimmers, a chain saw, or once he kept my dads plumbing snake for like 4 years. Just cuz he cohldnt be bothered to return it.

Kris7167, I don't know if my ex was a psychopath, but I do know he displayed narcissistic traits. I think he may have been BPD because occasionally he'd cling to personas he saw around him. He lost a job once around the time I introduced him to a show called Prison Break. In that show, the main character folds paper cranes a very specific way when he wants to leave some form of landmark or hidden note. My ex totally did that when he got fired, giving birds to those he especially liked, and those he didn't. It seemed so odd to me, but I didn't mention it at the time. He was young, he liked a show a lot, okay, whatever! But when I went back over all the thoughts of things that seemed different from what I've seen of others, that was one of the things that stuck out. Your red dress/engraved planner book thing reminded me of that one.

MendingToday, what you're saying is still an afterthought of "that may have done it." It still definitely qualifies. Ugh, the lying is among the worst things you can do... because then there's nothing you can do!

Gigglemon, that's almost humorous, but I have some experience with at as well so I understand the frustration. It's easy to forget about something for awhile, hold off returning it for one reason or another, but when it becomes a trend....

I totally agree! It was funny... at first... but when ur up to like the 8th or 9th thing from the same person and we are talking keeping it for 2 or 3 years... it just shows how differently we view "borrowing"

This is another one that may be a bit fringe compared to the original subject, but my abusers` lack of awareness of other people along with right and wrong really came out while driving.

My dad was a terrible driver! Once when I was very young and he had let me sit in the front seat, we were driving along at some speed. A guy began to reverse out of one of the parking spaces set at an angle to the road, and Dad didn`t slow down or anything. My mother had to yell at him from the back to get him to stop in time. It was a real brake slam, as if he never saw the other guy until he was almost on top of him.

Then he turned around and said to her, indignantly, "Do you want to drive?"

I just thought, um, well, you weren't BRAKING, Dad! The guy was reversing on my side of the road, and if you had crashed into him, you could have hurt or killed me! Does any of that mean a frigging THING to you?? No, of course not. You're a narcissist. Your child is just like anything else in your life: an object.

To top it all off, he naturally blamed the other guy for having reversed at all.

I have one from my long-ago
then-abuser.

Before I tell it (it's a pretty
short story, in and of itself),
keep in mind that the guy
considered himself an
enthusiastic gardener,
with beds full of iris,
peonies, poppies
and plants that were
especially beautiful
in the spring.

I'd met him after work
for a dinner out. It was
around six thirty, on an
exquisite springtime
evening. We were
sitting at an outdoor
table, enjoying a glass
of wine while our
dinners were being
prepared.

For a moment, all
the pain of the years
with this abuser fell
away, as I inhaled
the delicious evening
air. I closed my eyes
and felt peaceful and
happy for the first time
in ages.

Unthinking, I said,
"This spring has
been more beautiful
than any I can remember
in years. Don't you think?"

His response
was barely more
than an expressionless,
neolithic-like grunt. (At
work he was an executive
managing dozens of people
and budgets of millions of
dollars. And of course, he
loved his springtime gardens,
but all he could manage was
an irrascible grunt.)

I was sling-shotted back
from my idyllic moment
of peace and beauty
to my abusive marriage.
I looked at him, trying not
to see a neanderthal
(sorry to be casting
dispersions on the
neanderthals) asshole
dressed in a suit and
tie, sitting next to me
about to dine al fresco.

That was before I'd
decided to leave.
But that moment
was a memorable
stepping-stone towards
the day I finally escaped.

Abusers are only
connected to
negativity
and destruction.
That's why
connection
with THEM
is so dark
and painful.

Wow, Ilene, that was a vividly- told story. He really couldn't tolerate your happiness, must have felt like a fly in his wine.

Rosenkranz,
you are right on as far as my husband went, not only for your reason, but, when I found something I knew he would love, he always hated it, no matter what it was. Actually his whole family was like that with anything anybody gave any of them.

Haha, Rsce and gem, My disordered mother would actually unwrap a Christmas gift I gave her and say, "Why would you ever get me this?" In front of the whole family.

Then she would embarrass me further by giving me a terrible gift. Once she re-gifted a sweater that had been given to her. When I opened the box, she said, "C gave me that. It would only fit a child. I don't know why C would ever give me something I couldn't wear."

Gem111, I forgot about that with my ex... his family was very dismissive.

They were never very excited about me, even though they'd met me only a couple of times. Our first Christmas together, my ex told me his dad liked cashew bark, and I wanted his dad to like me so much, so I made white, milk, and dark chocolate versions. After I made it, my ex realized he meant cashew brittle but didn't realize that was the name for it. So I learned how to make that, and added that to his dad's gift, too. When Christmas came and I gave him the gift, he said, "oh... thanks." Set them aside and that was the end of it.

I thought my ex and I were "meant to be" because we had so much in common, including that we'd been near each other for years before we ever met. I moved for college to the town where he grew up, and I lived within 2 miles of him for my first month there. I worked closely with his mom's department on campus for several years. In the summer I frequented the sporting goods store he worked at whenever he came home for breaks from his classes. When I got my first job out of college, it was in the town where he was just finishing up college, three hours away from where he was from. We both interviewed at the same place during the same hiring period. A few months later he found me on Craigslist and messaged me because he thought I looked like someone he knew. We got together, and I needed a roommate at the same time his lease was ending, so the timing was just right. It seemed so interesting to me that we crossed paths so many times, even hours and states away. But my ex just brushed it off like it happens every day, and even his mom stared at me blankly when I realized I had been emailing with her years ago for work and now we were finally meeting because I was engaged to her son. Couldn't she even just feign a little interest?! Hahaha

Kris7167, did you tell her, "well, if the sweater fits...." OH SNAP! Alright, I'm done being mean now.

Hahaha, bottled.

Your once-potential MIL sounds like a real sweetheart, too.