sorry didn't mean to sound so angry.. I'm havin a bad pain day.. grumpy old fart I am... yepp

Well, maybe you should look at your post and re read it again. In MY opinion, you sound very angry, not to anyone or any gender in particular....just angry full stop!

A lot of people on here think that abuse can be healed together all as one, and not gender specific. I personally, on the other hand, dont think that men and women who have suffered from DOMESTIC abuse can help eachother heal at all. We are too vulnerable and too untrusting of eachother to be of any help.

Take care

hey russ i found nothing wrong with your post as i have always had mixed friends both male and female and refuse to drop a male friend because a bf doesnt like them or is jealous or what ever - i have one female friend and one male friend that have completely been true friends throughout my life - i do not mean family members but friends made beyond your family - i would rather have 1 good friend than 10 mediocre ones - i have a female aquaintence - i do not consider her a friend - she is bitter over what her ex husband did to her and always puts all men in the same basket - one thing my mother taught me was tolerence and that men and women should be treated equally - it is a quality that i admire in myself - i refuse to put all men or all women in the same basket - when i bitch it is not about all men just those specific to me or i obviously wouldnt have the same long term male friend i have now - i know this site can seem like a men haters club and i know that you are not acusing members as such but just pointing out in frustration that all men are not the same and all females are not the same - we are all individual people - pls let me know if that was the point you were trying to make out of frustration - i dont believe you are really angry but just couldnt explain yourself as well as others in this group can in writing - thank you for reminding me people are people where ever you go and male or female has nothing to do with it - hope you have a good day - jd

yepp Jane that was what I meant...don't be so eager to bash all men or women just becaue... and as for abfab... yeah I am an angry person.. but I don't let it control me... I was in terrible pain.. when I wrote this comment.. most the time I just pass it off as male bashin and feel sorry for those that bash a gender just Because...

I disagree... we the abused have to help each other heal..just take kindness and hope... take your time and maybe some trust will grow.. but if you don't plant the seed nothing is going to be there to harvest....

gender bashin is abusive... Stop it... only you can prevent shottin off ya mouth... always Russ...

Anger aside, I do agree with you here abuse does not discriminate..just stop and look at where the abuse is coming from and from WHOM..male/female it makes no difference, it is still wrong. But not ALL men are abusers and not ALL women are either.. The key, i believe is healing ourselves and striving to get rid of the anger which causes a lot of mistrust and anxiety..the abuse in my life came from my mother as well as my ex husband..I could not actually divorce my mom,, but I did tell her I would not take any more of her abusive games, and you know what,? she did actually apologize to me..for not having the patience one needs in raising a child..It was not much, but it did help me.. at least I KNEW that she KNEW what she did was wrong..Now the ex, he is history..plain and simple HE was the AH..But I did promise myself that I would NEVER be anyone's victim again..I am in a great relationship with a wonderful guy..we argue at times but we don't go out of our way to hurt one another..We get out what we need to get out and get it over with..The key is finding solutions together..

Its ok to be angry about something and vocalize your thoughts and feelings constructively, like this post here, russ. I see nothing wrong with the way you handled your anger about this whole tendancy toward sweeping generalizations of "ALL" men/women/etc. If you attacked a person who used the word "ALL" in an inappropriate and degrading or aggressive way, that would be destructive anger... but your expression here, I don't think, is negative or needed to be curtailed at all.

I don't really get what adfab was talking about with the notion that genders shouldnt/couldn't mix in the healing process. I'm sorry if someone is that vulnerable to believe that because I'm a woman, a mans perspective couldnt' help me. That is a sad notion. but I'm not really clear if that is even what post #2 means.

RUSS: its very clear by your post exactly what you were directing your anger toward... not just "angry full stop" but specifically... VERY specifically... you are angry about the ignorance of SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS. that is the clear target of your post. My suggestion, russ, is, when someone uses a sweeping generalization... receive it as a reflection of THEIR ignorance... possibly give them a gentle correction about how NO sweeping generalizations can ever be absolutely true and only make a person sound silly... but overall... best to just ignore the comment... if as a man someone says "ALL MEN" just laugh at them quietly and let your other actions remove you from the ignorant equation, as it holds no logical merit, and really deserves none of your energy.

stereotypes, I agree, are destructive, and many people don't realize that its a subtle sort of cultural abuse to say that ALL of any set of people are any certain way... save to say something like "ALL Chinese people have asian heredity"

laughter is a great neutralizer for anger. learn to laugh at the ignorant, and trust me, you will find yourself with no shortage of opportunities to laugh... they are everywhere!

Ok....I was only expressing my opinion on this matter...is that not allowed on here now? Its NOT male bashing...just expessing an opinion...why all the fuss?

Cant it just be left and we agree to disagree...we CANT all think the same, life would be very boring if we did.

Cheers!

abfab... always voice your opinion... I wouldn't have it any other way.. you don't have to agree with me... I'm not upset with you...I was just sayin HOW I feel.. about how all sounds like bashin...

trust me I've been bashed by some of the Best... fur reel..

Thank you Russ.

Now about this dog you sleep with...I can better that, I sleep with 2 cats!!!....lol

Take care
x

I agree with you russ, I do not think all men are bad. I just think my ex is bad. No I think he is evil. Evil beyond words!

My father is/was a great man. The men in my family both on the mother side and father side none are abusers. My ex's family all the men are abusers and that should have been an eye opener for me. But I saw him as the different one in the family. His ex sister in law thought the same way of him until I told her what he had done to me. Then she said well he is an "his last name here) they are all abusers.

My ex is a drug addict and a preditor so I got the trifecta of men.

So hang in there russ and know that we care about you.

Oh, hi abfab..I miss talking to you.

~Idio

Russ, yes your post is angry -- but you knew that. Your post is provocative -- but you knew that. You apparently have gotten very good at compartmentalizing your anger -- but you knew that. It is clear that there has been some healing for you already and that's wonderful. Expecting everyone else to be where you are is unrealistic. Having said that, you do have a point that no one can run scared of the other half of the species forever. That's obviously completely unrealistic and counterproductive.

I know this is a minority opinion, but I think abfab has a very valid point. There's a reason that most recovery groups are segregated by gender - survivors of domestic violence are hurt, scared and distrustful. When someone posts on DS in that state of mind, of course they are going to say things like "all men are (fill in the blank)...." Putting them in a defensive position does nothing to accept them where they are and attempting to gain trust. It is forcing political correctness. Making a person in pain defend or, worse yet, apologize for, a post written in anguish does absolutely nothing to further their healing and ends up heaping guilt on top of it. It has happened time after time here on DS and truthfully - it's getting old.

Laughing at someone's ignorance seems cruel. Time and education will change some minds and not others. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to also truly examine whatever it is you are laughing at, lest one thinks the only opinion one needs to hear is there own.

Russ,

I think you show no understanding that you are in an Abuse forum.
I think you show no understanding you are in a non judgmental healing support forum.

I think you show no understanding of what abuse is.

I think you show no understanding of what it means to force your point of view on others.


In fact from this post you could very well be an abuser.
I think this is an angry rant at women in your life.
I think this is an angry rant because you came here and saw that you do some of the things we talk about here. And now your fear and denial is kicking up your rage and you are raging.

Hey I understand I do this too. I have expressed my rage agaist my parents and my x at inappropriate times.

And you are surely not going to get rid of hate with hate.

You are just dead wrong about everything in your post.

I know I'm in the minority here, but here goes.

I don't think that the majority of support groups should be segregated by gender. Separating never seems to help either gender. The guys can't find providers very easily (if at all). And neither get the benefits of having the opposite gender in the group. There are sooo many men and women who think that ALL (men/women) shouldn't be trusted, that they're out to get the opposite gender and think that they'll never be able to have a friendship with them. It's really sad.

I think that people are at a disadvantage because of this. When you avoid 50% or so of the population and mistrust runs rampant (and often isn't reigned in) then you have a serious quality-of-life issue. Sometimes this never gets addressed, and even if it does a therapist saying "Not all (men/women) are bad" is not quite the same thing as being shown that fact on a daily (or even weekly) basis.

The same logic applies to other types of support groups and some of them have been desegregated for years (alcohol, transgender).

It becomes apparent now that this thread is revealing itself, that this original post was fueled by something that was apparently said elsewhere in a another thread, which doesn't translate over to a reader who didn't read THAT post. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like abfab made a comment about "all" men or women or whatever, and then russ came HERE to a new thread? yes?

suffice it to say that my response was ONLY to the original thread here, not whatever drama may have precipitated it.

I still stand by the notion that any "ALL" inclusive generalizations are worth ignoring, as NONE of us has knowledge of ALL of any set of people to be able to assert such foolishness. but setting that aside...

we certainly are all entitled to have, and voice, or our opinions.... even if we are wrong. (I'm kidding, opinions aren't wrong, they are just opinions)

anyway... theres a better issue being revealed here... and disregard this is my assumption is unfounded.

If something happens in a thread that prompts another thread, then a clear line should be made traceable by the original poster (ideally) or whomever becomes aware of the source if the original poster doesnt do so. This is just my rule, and I accept that it may be completely meaningless to everyone else. But if the drama from one post fuels another, and the actual topic or subject is not addressed, then it is almost like a form of abuse in itself. At the very least, its a failure to communicate DIRECTLY, and indirect communication tends to contain a lot of generalizations in itself, which should be more direct.

RUSS. rather than generalizing about your dislike for sweeping generalizations, I think it would be healthier for you to have directly addressed the statement that offended you. Otherwise, you dupe people like me into walking into a scene that I don't even know exists, and participating in a drama that I don't care to feed.

I agree with what you said.
I don't agree with the subversive attack that you used to say it.

We aren't all going to like eachother. But the key to not perpetuating abusive cycles is to still show eachother a modecum of respect. By directly and concisely addressing the particulars of what offended you, you open the door for people to come together to help bring understanding to both sides. That doesn't mean everyone has to agree at the end of the day, but a deeper appreciation for a differing point of view is never a bad thing.

as for having segregation of men and women recovering from situations... I don't think its ultimately going to breed healing across the gender divide, but if some people feel that is something they personally need, so be it. Its not for anyone to judge what someone else needs.

The easy solution to the "all men" is to state it as a personal I statement. THere is NOTHING wrong with saying "I feel uncomfortable around/have trouble trusting ALL MEN, and therefore seek gender segregated therapy" Feelings are never wrong. Some men are trustworthy, but this statement doesn't assume they aren't.

and if thats the type of thing that gave rise to this whole thread... then russ... I think a bit more empathy and a bit less emotion might have gone a lot farther to show that ALL Men aren't the same.. For someone who feels that all men are aggressive, you've not made any point in revealing a new perspective.