In my experience an abuser never changes 100% & they may stop physically abusing but still verbally or emotionally abuse. If I was your sister I would get out of the realationship now.
Deb

I think its really cool he is going to anger managment.
I think your sister is right to take a zero tolerance policy to him, but she has to remember every body gets upset and has angry outburts- probably even her.

Yes she is correct that his outbursts are unacceptable.

I don't think he is necessarily saying that they are acceptable. He may be simply asking her to give him some grace as he is on a learning curve. And its true that he can't be perfect. None of us can. After studying the subtleties of emotional abuse, I have come to realize that many people have tendancies to be abusive on some level. Likely she does as well. If she has ever called him names, undermined him to her children, or hidden a receipt for those shoes that she doesn't want him to know how much she spent on them.... then she could do well to notice that abuse and control issues are not limited to raising your voice, intimidating and hitting. Women can be great manipulators, but typically fail to recognize the abuse that lies therein.

I'm not going to say that she should or shouldn't stay. But if she is with one of the rare few who actually takes ownership of his problem, voluntarily recognizes when he slips into the pattern, and has made a decided determination that he wants to be a better husband and father, then she would do well to realize that this first crucial step is a rare one. My husband took this step, and together we have each taken the reigns of our own controlling personalities. We have each given eachother some grace, and forgiveness, and have over TIME rebuilt a sense of trust that is stronger than I could have ever imagined. It didn't happen over night. His desire (and mine) to change didn't just magically manifest into a perfect man who never responds badly.

The question is... does she want to participate in it working out between them? She has to realize that she is a participant. How is her constant finger pointing and telling him he is somehow not good enough because he isn't supernaturally cured isn't helping to cure him. If he is really engaged with this process, she can only support the process by joining in. My husband and I are blessed to have a wonderful pastor and a terrific marriage and family counselor. If my husband weren't a willing participant, holding himself accountable for his actions, there would be no point. I'm so glad that we took a chance to defy the odds.

I guess the key is, if she can't forgive him... she should let him go. If he is determined to change and she is not giving him the grace and support to believe he can, than he will ultimately be able to grow into a healthier man without her influence.

Only SHE knows what she can deal with and if she says she can no longer put up with his outbursts, then he needs to accept that and determine whether he is willing to change his behavior or not.

bigguy....

it sounds like the husband has decided that he is willing to change his behavior, and the wife has even recognized the evidence of this by the decrease in the frequency and intensity of the outbursts.

Just how quickly should anyone be expected to complete erradicate any and all negative emotional responses?

I know I'm very focused on being a Godly mother and wife... and yet... as a human being, I do myself at times of stress find that I raise my voice when I maybe shouldn't, I over react at times when my emotions are temporarily irrational, and I just sometimes plain say things I don't mean if I am finding myself on the defense for any reason, whether the offense was truly relevant or wrongly inferred. What it comes down to is... humans aren't perfect.

So what should I do when my imperfections rear their ugly heads? Condemn myself? Be discouraged by those around me who lack a sense of forgiveness? Heck no. What I must do is regain my sensibility as quickly as humanly possible (which gets quicker over time and practice) HUMBLE myself and acknowledge to my loved ones that my behavior was wrong, unacceptable and out of order. I must NOT minimize the wrongness of my actions by trying to validate them through explaining the feelings that fueled the bad response. Understanding those things is MY tool for growth, not their tool for excusing my actions. Then what I must do is, after acknowledging that my behavior was inexcusable, ask them to forgive me, even to pray for me or with me, and to know that I am actively "working on it"

There is a wonderful book called the 4 agreements. One of those 4 agreements is to always do your best. It doesn't mean always be perfect. That pressure undermines success because it is simply unattainable! My best is better some moments than others, like everyone. If I have been busy and forgotten to eat, I can suddenly become irate. I do my best to make sure I don't allow myself to reach a sudden desperate hunger... but the other day, I barely ate, and then I was a bear without even knowing why. Thankfully it came to me quickly to realize that I was actually hungry. I used to not be so quick to recognize the problem. I ate. I felt like a new person after half a sandwich. Knowing that I had been hungry didn't dismiss that when I snipped at my daughter I was wrong. As a family we are learning, growing and accepting responsibility for ourselves. Its a process.

I thinkhe's discounting her feelings - a form of verbal abuse - and it is up to her to determine her boundaries instead of let him define what is or isn't ok with her. Is she in counseling for domestic violence? Domestic violence is not necessarily physical but mental and emotional and being with a man who needs anger management is abusive.

I don't think the problem is what he is saying necessarily, it's the tone he is saying it in. That comment is inherently sarcastic and it even reads that way when typed out in your message.

For as glad as I am that he is going to anger management counseling, it really is his attitude toward his wife and children that needs to change along with his actions. It sounds like he's going just to shut her up. He may not be, I know. I will never make a claim that he's straight out lying. But he wouldn't be the first one to come out of an abuse intervention program with even more knowledge of how to get around his target of choice. They learn about our triggers and our emotions and then they figure out how to work around them. Be supportive, but cautious.

She recognizes the drop in frequency but does he stop during one of the outbursts that he still engages in and realize, "hey, I shouldn't be doing this" and disengage until he gets control? That would go a long way to showing that he is willing to change. If he has cut the frequency but doesn't do anything to short-cicuit the outbursts that are still going on, then it will be hard for her to fully acknowledge the effort. It is extremely difficult but it can be don.

Bigguy, Its all subject to interpretation I guess. For me, I interpreted the decrease in not only frequency but also intensity as an indicator that he is catching himself and trying to get better control when his is in the midst of a bad reaction.

And I totally agree with queenval that its not just his actions that need to change, but primarily his attitude. Changing his attitude is in fact what will enable him to successfully change his actions.
I don't agree though that the 'give him a break he cant be perfect' is necessarily indicative of his tone. Remembering that this is being typed by someone who heard from someone else that yet another someone said something like this.... tone has long since been lost.

But indeed the tone that he had when he did say whatever he said would be telling.

Whatever the case, the truth does remain that he can't be perfect. Whether she chooses to give him a break totally depends on how much hope and faith she has in his intention and ability to change.

This is why anger management rarely changes the an abuser. It might alter the anger type outbursts (for a while at least) but the abuser takes on different forms of manipulation and control, like sarcasm and irony.

The root of the problem is not the husband's ability to deal with anger, it is his narcissistic need to control her. Since the anger part has not worked, he will resort to other methods. The real danger your sister faces here, is that the control mechanisms will become more subtle - things like criticism of the way she looks, dresses, acts are ways that an abuser attacks the self-worth of an individual.

Bottom line is that abuse is not about anger, it's about control. He obviously needs the anger management for some form of self-control, but he also needs counseling for his narcissistic and controling behaviors.

"The root of the problem is not the husband's ability to deal with anger, it is his narcissistic need to control her." Ref to "Give me a break - can't be perfect" - i.e. SHE is the one who is failing to accommodate him (again).

However, - no, nobody can get through this life without the odd reasonable blow up. We all get pushed beyond our point of control. But not every day, or every week, or even every month.

I think it sounds as if your sister has had enough of him Full Stop. Time to move on. He now has the reward of his behaviour, and can - for his own sake - continue his anger management.

I agree with revpatty that anger management alone isn't enough. Individual counseling to get to the root of his control issues is a must. I just think it is encouraging that he has had ANY positive result from anger management counseling. Most of those I know who have gone through it have done so with closed ears and hearts and just did their time to fulfill the courts requirement and come out no better off... no revelation. It sounds like he has had at least some level of revelation, and that could be enough to get him to agree to further counseling.

As far as abuse turning to more subtle forms, I kinda agree and disagree. I mean, it could happen. But I don't think its certain to. Anger management class was actually the first time that my husband (and I, through him) were exposed to the idea that sarcasm, for example is even a form of abuse. We both marvelled over how incidious the subtleties can be. But I think, too, that we need to be careful not to take identifying "abuse" to a level of rediculousness either. Chances are if the wife examined her own actions she would find her own tendancies for trying to control her husband. I don't think there is anything wrong with counting the small steps as victories. If physical abuse and raging outbursts can be first erradicated, and then address some of those other subtler forms together (his control issues AND hers)... then I think thats a good move.
None of it is acceptable, but as processes go, removing the overt violence is a good first step. Not the end of the journey, though.
I'm so thankful that my husbands mandated anger management class brought to light my own much more subtle control mechanisms.

How many wives browbeat their husbands? ... and never consider themselves abusive.

Your sister needs to read "Why does he do that"? by Lundy Bancroft. Abusers do not change. I don't blame your sister. She's just about had it.

If she is willing to stay, she should put a timeframe on when she wants to enforce zero tolerance....marriage counseling would probably help that...she more than likly reached her limit with his crap and knows she deservs better.

Hi, i am proud of your sister,it should be about her now, by not accepting any more comments like give me a break, let me tell you it is much more then saying give me a break,it is about true forgiveness,on your brother in law part,the words give me a break, is not the words for forgiveness or is it a way to tell someone you are accepting that you are a abuser and wanthelp and forgiveness,your sister has shown true grouth by not accepting less then she deserves,with this kind of out outburts he will need much more anger managerment mettings, and family counseling, your sister is hurt bad by this, it will take a long time for her to be able to start to heal,she will need counseling for her self,yes no one is perfect but there is no excuses for abuse,again i am proud of your sister,she needs your suuport in her choice not to be abused anymore,and neverever accept less then she deserves. i will pray for your sister and her husband.