I totally agree with this theory - and feel my life provides evidence for it! I believe I am a pleasant, generous personal who is kind and thoughtful. If I see someone in need, I willing offer help where I can. Every single relationship I have ever been in since I split from my son's father, has been with, using your terms, 'wounded people'. They are lovely to start off with, very open and honest, eager to please - but then things change, gradually and they totally abuse my giving perona. This has happened in a few friendships too. Do we deliberately seek out these 'wounded' people though? Im not sure, but I hope I can spot it a lot sooner and get out before I get hurt.

Hi IIene! You have to establish stricker boundries for yourself, to guard against you being hurt. People will only hurt you if you ''let'' them! Also find better people to hang around with, friends do not hurt us. And, the most important thing is you tell them, DO NOT CONFUSE MY KINDNESS FOR WEAKNESS!!!! You have to be able to defend yourself, even if it's with words. I am 56 years old, and I am making up for all the years I ''let'' people hurt me, when I did nothing to hurt them. You need to only have people who deserve to be your friend! Keeping only positive people in your life, As much as you can. Be more selective as to whom you reveal yourself to. I had to learn this the hard way...And, do not let this overshadow the wonderful work you do, helping others. Hugs!!! Angel Grace

Ilene,
You know, really interesting. I've been burned a few times by sweet people who I thought were my friends and it makes me wonder. I know one woman who was abused by her mother so, this is interesting, and it just give me a tool.
Thank you once again, Ilene

Possibly. I think an anthropologist would say you are describing a trait whereby "strong" or "dominant" personalities tend to surround themselves with people who are less likely to challenge that dominance. There are plenty of examples:
- schoolyard bullies tend fo have a handful of friends who aren't really bullies themselves until they are around the "dominant' person.
- sports fans will describe a "cancer" in the clubhouse - a player who has such an ego that the team's performance suffers.
- High up corporate managers like to hire "yes men".
- Organized crimes tend to have a "kingpin" or "ring leader".
- Dictators have "puppets" to run their agencies, and anyone who challenges their authority is eliminated.

I served on a jury a few years back on a case where a young woman was accused of armed robbery. Her attorney tried to describe her as a basically good person who was hanging out with bad people. This was probably true, because another in her group was apparently a very bad person. But she was there during the crime and aware of what was going on, and facilitated the robbery by driving the getaway car. Now she is in prison, even though she wasn't the one holding the gun.

I don't think it is that simple with abusers in general though. I have noticed that my ex's friends tended to be people who would not challenge her behavior or personality. And anyone that did, whether it be her sisters or her employer, she would remove from her life. I think she had other motivations, though than just a desire to have control over those around her. I don't think she and I got together specifically because of that type of relationship, but I think we stayed together for the 6 months that we did because I am fairly easy going and rarely objected or said much about the things she did.

Sounds really sensible to me. Explains a thing or two in my life too :) Karen

I also think that people tend to believe that others are like them. If a person is a serial cheater, then he believes his spouse must also be cheating. If you are a nice person with a kind heart, you believe deep down inside that this other person must be nice as well. I know I don't have to tell you about projection, I just thought I'd toss that in there for others as well.

I think your theory is pretty right on. It's pretty much what my dv counselor kept telling me when I was beating myself up for letting myself be a victim over and over. I felt like I was just stupid for not recognizing abusers right away, but I'm starting to understand how manipulative and predatory they can be as well. Heck, my stbx even conned my dv counselor at first, until he told her some cockamamee story about how his ex got an oop on him and the judge ordered them to stay together and live together... yeah right... no judge would EVER do that!

Yes, I totally agree with you Ilene - especially with Pandora's projection added in.

I honestly don't think it's because we attract them or look for them - or we wouldn't have good friends as well as these predators. I have some genuinely wonderful people in my life, who would drop everything to be there for me if I needed it, etc. And I've had a fair few predators in my life too. I am learning to spot and get rid of the predators faster, but I don't think it will ever be immediate, because my kind nature will want to believe the best of them, will want to treat them well, until they show themselves.

The trick, I think, is to not get emotionally invested until someone has really shown themselves. If I can get that one down, I'll be made! :-)

I agree with you too Ilene...

The thing that I find now, that I know this, is the shock on their face when they take that step too far and incur the practiced verbal ability to tell them that I am aware of who they are and what they are doing and that i they want to continue they had better find another target. And then end it with, love and light....peace out.

Everyone gets the same me, I am nice and sweet until you violate my trust....Like the sign on fb says," I do not spew profanities. I enunciate them clearly, like a f*****g lady."

and you know who taught me to do that, tho I know it was not his intention, lol. I can put that wall up faster than I can say "That person is an idiot."

Be sweet, be kind, be loving, and don't allow the idiots access.

Ilene~Excellent! Very insightful as usual!

One line sticks out for me "Am I not taking care of myself?" Or perhaps is it, "am I keeping my expectations of certain people low enough?"

Last week I had a surgical biopsy to evaluate breast cancer. My father, who had recently fractured his elbow, who I had called and checked in on many times, did not call me before my surgery or after my surgery to see how I was. My father is a Taker and he was abusive to me. And I ended up in an abusive relationship....

I was chatting with my therapist this week about my shame over the years I spent with my abuser. My therapist pointed out that in our innocence, we assume that everyone around us is as nice as us and has motives as pure. Then we get abused and we learn a hard lesson so we tend to swing in the opposite direction for a while and trust no-one. The hard part is learning to trust yourself to make good decisions about whether people are trustworthy or not lol.

Anyway, his point was that we all start out as innocent as babes in the wood and it's nothing to chastise ourselves for but learning where to draw the line in our future is very important.

Ilene, my personal opinion about your theory is that people gravitate towards those who validate them. Abusers love nice kind women because we let them think they are behaving appropriately and that they are really good guys/girls at heart. We are initially attracted because they turn on the charm (and make us feel special) and then we are bewildered when the nice guy disappears.

I'm quite certain my ex believes there's nothing wrong with him and looks for women who feel the same way. Then when they notice the cracks, he turns on them in a defensive manner because if he can make them out to be the bad one then it justifies his behavior.

Lifebut. . . . wrote:

people gravitate towards those who validate them. Abusers love nice kind women because we let them think they are behaving appropriately and that they are really good guys/girls at heart.


I think this is an enormous point.

(For the record, the people whose behavior
prompted me to draft this thread. . . all three
of them. . . . . are WOMEN.)

There are many great points in the responses.

The psychological permutations
of human behavior are complex!

I agree about dominance.
I agree about people in general
gravitating to those who validate us.
Who doesn't long to be validated?
The difference is that when non-abusers
don't get validated, we're disappoointed.
When abusers don't get (or don't feel)
validated, they become enraged.

Thanks, everyone, for your responses.
(And welcome all, who've not yet chimed in.)

My 2 cents...There was an instance recently where I was hurt by an otherwise kind, gentle women. However, I suspect what was probably behind the event was her husband. I think he is abusive in a quiet, private way, like the "water torturer". So maybe some of these wonderful women who hurt you cannot completely keep from leaking out the abuse they have potentially suffered either recently or in the past. I know that I have had to rein myself in this way and I agree about the conditioning to be predatory, however, I also think that if people don't realize that is what they are doing then they are blind. When I notice that I may have hurt someone or been insensitive, I feel regret, and try to make amends. There is a possibility though, that I have caused hurt and not realized it, having been through so much abuse in my life.

On the other hand, I am very aware now, and I don't think this is happening much, if at all.

Secondly, I don't think we can be taken to task for continuing to be kind, sweet people even when we know there are others out there who will hurt us. We take a risk by going out into the world, and we know this, but do it anyway. A child knows they will get muddy if they go outside on a rainy day and splash in puddles. I wouldn't say they shouldn't go out and do this, because of the joy they would miss. We choose to go out there into the world, and we choose to get muddy, because we want to live our lives fully. We have to come back inside and purposefully get cleaned and warmed up afterwards to protect ourselves. I think I will now go and make myself some hot chocolate!

There is nothing wrong with being sweet and kind, but we have to be judicious who we give that to.

I've been dealing with predators for years, having been raised by them in my FOO. So I kept dealing with them over and over, until I got wise that it wasn't me that had it wrong, it was them.

But staying perpetually naive is a real liability too, and it is hard sometimes to accept just how many people can display predatory behaviors, especially when they have been hurt by predators themselves.

I think predators are generally assuming that others will dominate them if they get half the chance so they think to take that preemptive strike. It's a really primitive reflex, kind of reptilian. And yes, they can sense who is vulnerable or just extra nice and they'll eat them for dinner given the chance.

So for those empathic types who have also experienced trauma, it takes a bit of doing to stay off the menu : )

Ilenew that keeps happening to me too. I'm actually struggling with the same thing right now. I will post something about it cause i am hurting and I need you guys again.

When you run into this sort of thing, does it take you back to not trusting anyone? And building that wall up?

I agree with all that was said here. I just want to add, I believe we are attracted to these predators for 2 reasons. First because we have been victims and their treatment is familiar. Also we look for others that are broken ( like us) we think we can relate to them. We think we can fix them. Because we are damaged we feel we don't deserve good people in our lives. I also think that people who are not damaged or ones that are but got away, tend to stay from us. They are looking for good safe undamaged people. Like all of you I am a good person and feel sympathy and compassion for others. I don't want to change that, I do know that everyone does not deserve us. We just have to be cautious and figure out which ones do. Easier said than done.