I understand how you feel. I'm apart from my husband, but still wish more than anything that our marriage could have been saved. I was willing to do anything, he wasn't...not even counselling. I still feel sad and lost, but in my head (not quite my heart), I know he was destroying me emotionally. I still don't feel like myself yet, I still don't have my head screwed on straight (live in a constant state of "mush brain"). And he did this to me!!! He is the reason I don't even recognize myself anymore. He is the one I can't talk to, turn to for support, blames me for everything, manipulates, right fights etc. and he refuses to get help. But the truth is, even if he did, it probably wouldn't work. The prognosis is very grim for the emotional abuser. So if you can relate to anything above, you're making the right decision by leaving. This is no way to live.

How long are you apart from your husband? Do you have kids?

I can relate. To everything you are saying actually. I no longer feel a physical attraction to him because I feel so distant from him and do not like the man i see when i look at him. We did do MC, but that was before I learned that this relationship is abusive and not just your average marital ups/downs. When I suggested we both do IC, at first he said no. He's fine with himself but that if I wasn't happy, I could go. I went and am still going. He finally started to go - 2 sessions so far - but this is just who he is. How can one undo decades of behavior?

I think, what if, now that i recognize whats going on, I continue to stand up for myself, put my foot down when I want to do something - not react and try and reason with him - just simply say, I'm doing xyz. What if when he starts to have a tantrum and act like a child, I just calmly walk away and say, we can talk when you calm down and are ready to talk to me like an adult. IF I did these things, and he keeps up with IC, COULD things settle down into a decent relationship?

I've been separated from him for a month...no kids. I started counselling last spring, but didn't realize I was in such an abusive relationship until the beginning of October of this year. I knew I was being emotionally abused due to the name calling and yelling etc, but I didn't realize the deliberate manipulation, blame shifting, isolation, constant need for control, denial, rewriting history, gaslighting ect until my therapist gave me the book "men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. See, I thought he was just emotionally immature and didn't understand what it took to make a relationship work due to lack of experience, his family environment etc. I thought it was something that could be "fixed" through education of sorts, but I now realize that it is deeply ingrained in their personalities. This also clouded by the fact that he was battling cancer, so I didn't know much of his behaviour was fear induced. But once he made the decision to end things and my therapist knew I was ready to face what was really going on and she gave that book, I saw things for what they really are. It's not that he's stupid, emotionally immature, scared ect, he's an abuser. If you get the book I mentioned above, not only does it outline the characteristics of an emotional abuser, but it also has some tactics for dealing with them. I never got the opportunity to try them as he already decided it was over by the time I read the book, but I caution you that the tactics, at best, will only shut down his behaviour in the moment. They won't change him at a core level such that he turns into the man you want to live with...it just might make him someone you can live with without going bat sh*t crazy. He will still always try to manipulate, control ect. Is that still something you want to live with?

We had only been married 2 years when he was diagnosed btw so he was likely sick most of our marriage as by the time he got diagnosed he was at stage 3

".... the tactics, at best, will only shut down his behaviour in the moment. They won't change him at a core level such that he turns into the man you want to live with...it just might make him someone you can live with without going bat sh*t crazy. He will still always try to manipulate, control ect. Is that still something you want to live with?...."

^^^ this is what I'm worried about ^^^

I guess I'm just wavering in my decision to move forward because I've been wavering and second guessing myself for years because of things husband would say to me. He was always like this - not this controlling and manipulating tho. So I started thinking, maybe I just handled it better years ago when i was younger. Now, 20 years later, I'm older, I'm a mom, have much responsibility and just slowly starting changing myself over the years to adapt to his ways.

When I think of it that way, I get angry. I wonder, who am I right now? Why did I allow him to do this?

I have been where you are, not. I have tried that route. The roller coaster doesnt stop. You have to chose to get off or ride along whereever they go however fast they take you. This is not something that they "get better" from. it is a constant everyday choice and that is why so few will change. It is just too hard to maintain in the long haul. As my H sat and talked to me last night while i did homework and text someone and virtually ignored him he made a few statements that just let me know he hasnt changed how he thinks at all. He has only wrapped himself in a nice new caring bow. unfortunately even that bow will get old and nasty and his true nature will shine through. Please remember that what you are doing is best for you and for your girls. If he decides to make the changes he needs to while you are a part then you can try again but dont let what ifs and he mights steal your lil ones younger years focusing on HIM and his BS. (AND FYI i am talking to ME as much as you)
God blass and take care

Oh btw, one thing I forgot to mention...you can't reason with an abuser anymore than you can communicate with them. It doesn't work. That's the one thing I always try to remind myself of when I get down. Do I really want to be married to someone I can't talk to about important issues? Issues that are important to me?

Sorry to hear about his cancer. You're right though. We think it's immature relationship, etc - basically making excuses for them, but the truth is, this is who they are.

Thats the thing, the affects this is having on our children. I can only shield them from so much. They hear us, I know. This is why I BEG him to stop talking until after they go to sleep, but he never does. I end up walking away, and then he gets mad and says I'm controlling the convo - or lack there of - because I don't want to talk when he does. It's so infuriating. We need to keep pep talking each other Giggle ;)

You "allowed" because it happened subtly over time and you didn't recognize it for what it was for a really long time (just like me). The gas lighting (crazy making) plays a big part of it to. The most powerful tactic an emotional abuser uses (IMO). As long as he is making you feel crazy and invalidating your feelings, it has to be you that's the real problem right? Ya, I don't think so...but I needed a damn book to tell me that, lol!

YES we do! I hate that my kids see this! I hate that the preacher made me feel like i am the one that is hurting them by being at odds with their dad. i just hate the whole messed up mess! I feel like stomping my foot and screaming at the universe some days. My children really are my driving factor in this I think. The more I see my H in my sons actions the more I know things HAVE to change!

Don't feel bad Wiggy - I'm finding things out about the man I've spent half my life with - from this forum!! I have met an amazing group of people here tho.

Look I'm religious too. But, I never went to the church for help with this. I feel they would just advise to stick it out, honor our vows, etc. but the thing is its not that simple. YOU know the real deal. You live with it daily. And you know how he's making you feel. As for your children, that is very important - how they are affected by this.

The question of whether you can make it better by standing up to him takes the whole thing back to whose fault the abuse is. Abusers will abuse unless and until THEY decide not to (which almost never happens). They don't stop abusing because we want them to or because we react differently or because we ... anything. Changing your reaction may well change his tactics - but it won't change the underlying fact that he wants total control of the relationship and will do whatever he needs to in order to get and maintain it.

And your kids, meanwhile, are learning that this is how relationships work.

Abuse is NOT the fault of the abused. It's not the victim's responsibility to change the attitudes of the abuser. And it's attitude that is at the heart of abuse. It's not that they don't realise, or that they act inappropriately - it's that their entire attitude to love, relationships and other people is warped. Changing how you react to the actions will do nothing to change the underlying attitude.

I'm really sorry for where you are - I have been there too. It's like you have two choices, neither of which is acceptable. And what should be a great third choice - to get back the dream of a happy "forever" marriage - just isn't on the table. And it's not on the table through no fault of yours. And that's just plain not fair. You lived up to your side of the bargain, it's not FAIR that you lose because he didn't live up to his side and isn't going to step up any time soon, if ever.

I hope you'll talk to the attorney - it doesn't mean you have to file now, or ever. It just helps you understand your rights and your options.

Oh and as for the religious side? An abuser goes into a marriage on false pretenses - pretending they will love and cherish, respect and support, when they have neither the intention nor even capability of truly doing so. It's like they made the promises with their fingers crossed. I firmly believe that there is no true marriage in the eyes of God under those circumstances, and so getting a divorce just makes the legal situation match the true situation.

Livin, of course, I admire everything I read from you. You are so very wise. But I do have a question. You and many claim that abusers will abuse unless they deem unfit to continue. My question is how does it happen that someone (me) in an over the top loving relationship for 1 1/2 years go to "I am with an abuser."

Of course, there were red flags, nothing too too serious. And then "BAM," I don't like you anymore and I will no longer treat you with any ounce of respect.

Heartbreaking. Confusing. Sad. Not Understandable.

Thanks for any light you can shed.

So sorry you're feeling this way, not (and others who've posted!). Me too, unfortunately. I have moments of "oh my, what am I doing?" and "am I really going to try to raise two kids basically on my own?". In those moments, I think I might stay because, practically, it seems easier, especially if my husband maintains his changes of the past 3 months.

However in my heart I know that I can't love him the way I once did. Like you said, you look at them and feel other feelings such as disgust, anger, resentment, fear, etc., which are most certainly NOT love, in my book. Do I want to knowingly live without romantic love for the rest of my life, because right now it would be "easier", and potentially better for my kids? Nope. I feel like it's a major war going on inside my heart, my head, and my marriage. Push, pull, push, pull. And my husband is right there in my ear pulling every guilt string he can, talking nicer than he ever has, but still using guilt and other "feelings" of his to manipulate me.

I hope you have a good appointment at the divorce attorney. Like Livn said, you don't have to file if you're not ready. But going over your options can be really helpful. xx