I know I am not a parent of a child who was sexually abused, so I don't go through all the emotions quite the same as you. And I can't even imagine the perp and the victim both being your kids. That makes it so much harder, I'm sure! I'm a survivor of incest, my abuser was my cousin. I've had many other abusers in my life, but I've never told anyone (in my real life) about the other ones. Anyway, I want you to know that the fact you're going through all these emotions and the fact that you're having a hard time means you care, and to a survivor, that means a lot. But please, PLEASE, cut yourself some slack. My mom and uncle used to find my cousin and I locked in a bedroom, or hidden in a closet, but they apparently never suspected anything! And the one night that they did kind of catch us, we never talked about it after that night and my cousin lied about what had happened, to pin the blame on me.

I know that this whole thing is very painful, and it affects everyone involved. Your husband sounds like my whole extended family. "If we don't discuss it, it doesn't exist." That's my family's mantra. But the way they have chosen to deal with my situation has caused me so much pain and ultimately, I've cut ties with half my family. I needed them to be there for me to believe me, protect me and defend me. They didn't. They swept it under the rug. This being said, it means a lot TO ME that you're fighting to protect your daughter. I mean, I know you're hurting and I know this has been so hard, but you are doing everything you can right now as a mother to protect your daughter and that's AMAZING!! My mom didn't do that. My family expected me to still be around my abuser after I came out with is. Do not blame yourself for not knowing what was happening. No parent wants to believe that their daughter's privates are sore because her brother is molesting her! That's not usually a parent's first though, either.

I don't know if anything I've said as helped, but from a survivor, you're an incredible mother. You're doing all you can right now to protect your daughter and that's amazing. You will get through this. You have every right to feel the feelings you feel. Hang in there.

Jennifermom- Our stories are so similar. I too,was a step-parent to my perp son, raised him since he was 18mon. and finally adopted him as an adult. Everything that you have talked about I have felt. There is nothing harder than having the victim and the perp in the same family. The amount of anger that I have carried is immense. Anger seems eaiser than sadness for me.

The choice that you make is of course, personal because every family does different things. Please be very careful about allowing your son back into his little sister's life. She is still quite young, right? He could easily manipulate her again. I know she loves him and wants him back but he could never be trusted again. Because it went on for such a long time she may be brainwashed to believe it was okay. Maybe that is why she doesn't want to talk about it? Abusers are very good at manipulating their victims without even uttering a word. My God, my daughter protected my son for 14 years. It is only recently that she has been able to see thru his good guy image. Now as an 18 year old young woman she understands the horrible damage that he did do to her and NEVER wants a relationship with him again. I don't think your daughter will ever be safe with him; not even with all of you in the same room together. She needs a lot of therapy before she will be able to make a rational decision, until then protect her from him. You have the power to do that until she is 18.

I wanted and still want my son to die. I have talked about killing him many times but I know that I would just go to jail and I wouldn't be able to help my family or have them help me. So....what to do with the anger? I haven't quite figured that one out yet. I know that I could never see him face to face because of what I might do. Maybe I will write a letter someday. I do know that I cannot carry this anger much longer because it is starting to take its toll. My daughter is moving on-she faced my son in a joint therapy session and she is now officially a survivor. She told me she doesn't want me to be angry anymore. She wants me to be happy and move on like she is. For her I can do it. The best revenge will be living a happy life with the rest of my family and letting go of my son forever. That is how I will finally heal the huge hole in my heart. Life will go on and I have realized that I really haven't missed my son at all the last 8 months. I always knew deep down that my son belonged with his bio-mom. Now she is back in his life, he is an adult and I don't have to be a part of his life anymore. I hope that we can both find healing and peace. I never thought that I would have to choose between my children but I simply had no choice with this situation. I didn't choose this my son did and now it is time for him to pay for what he did.

Please keep coming back here for support. There have been days and nights when posting here has been the only thing to keep me sane. HUGS, Laura

Both of you ladies are doing the right thing from my perspective. My wife was abused by her brother for years as well. Her Mother & Father have kicked her to the curb and treat her rapist brother like a victim. She has was not only abused as a child but she is now being abused in different way by her family. You and your little angels will have a far better shot then my wife ever did or will. Continue to let them know that this is not their fault, when they see you being upset that is something that they feel responsible for as well. I think it is better to not let them know that you have this pent up rage. I know for years I would show my outrage for her perp. & her family and it took me a long time to realize I was hurting her as well. With that being said however I'm not so sure I can honestly say that my rage has gotten any better. When I see my wife having nightmares and startled and symptoms of her abuse I want strangle my Brother-in-Law.

I know you both have an unbelievable amount of anger towards your sons, and rightly so. I know if one of my sons abused my daughter they would banished from the family forever just like I believe is the only way a survivor can heal. My wife at 55 years old and still dealing with the affects of CPTSD and depression has started to heal when her perp. has been out of her life. My wife has mentioned to me many times that it hurts her tremendously now not getting support from her parents. You both however will never have to deal with that I hope because you are both being supportive now and I'm sure that support will continue.

Keep up the total support for your daughters and continue to come her and get advice from surivors like Hannah. She will be able to shed some light on the best ways to work with little angels.

Good Luck and I have to say I love seeing Moms like you both fighting for your girls...

Warmest Regards,
Tom

Jen, I'm so glad you came here and posted what's going on with you. I'm so sorry you are having a difficult time. Be careful what your expectations of yourself are, you are allowed to have bad days, or even go through a setback--with new or more thoroughly realized things that come up, you are bound to feel anger and frustration. It's good to feel them and not stuff them; just be careful what you do with those feelings. You are an awesome mom and have gone well beyond what was required to best handle the situation you were dealt. You have been such a rock for your family and for people here; let us be there for you, ithelps us too.

There is no need to apologize for your post, we are here for exactly that--to reach out when we feel we need support, and to support others when they reach out to us. I know what you mean about feeling too empty to post or reply sometimes. I went through that too a couple times, and now I feel like I may not be empathetic enough to new people since I'm down the road a ways, but I still come here as much as I can. It's a kind of home for me, and it's your group and a kind of home for you too. You are one of the ones who was here just after I first came here, and you helped me more than I can express. I'm so glad you're reaching out here again for help. I have a few different things coming to mind. Firstly, have you been doing some things to take care of you? You need breaks from this, you have to allow yourself to not think about this 24/7. You have to give yourself permission to go do something fun for a couple hours a week at least. You need to let yourself get renewed and recharged, no one can keep going on empty.

You have done everything right for your daughter and your son, and have tried to do what's right for your husband too. You can only do so much--plant a seed and water it, if it doesn't have a healthy interior, it won't grow. You cannot make people be healthy, they have to want it and work for it. I think your husband has been very self absorbed about this, and has passively or not so passively commanded things so he can do what's most comfortable for him. But this is a family problem, and if the way things have been dealt with aren't what was best for you and your healing, then he should want to take you and your needs into consideration too and want to do what's necessary for all family members to heal. He hasn't even started a healing process if he isn't talking or acknowledging anything. He's not being responsible to his role in this.

Laura hit the nail on the head regarding your daughter: she shouldn't be anywhere near the perp if she hasn't really processed much of this. If she's just starting to talk and make progress but still is enamored with her brother and wants to have a relationship with him, she doesn't see what happened as wrong and illegal yet. That will only come as she increases her rapport with her therapist and allows herself to divulge more, examine it, and allow herself to feel the feelings that will inevitably come at some point. It's better for her to go through that part of it as soon as possible rather when she's older and when you have less control over her and her environment. As Laura said, your son could manipulate or control her even from across the room with a certain gesture or look. She just shouldn't be put in that situation until she's been well counseled and prepared.

As for your son the perp, what can I say. You have every right to be angry and distrustful of him. He's done the ultimate act of betrayal, and it should take an enormous amount of genuine effort and remorse for you to want to have any part of his life. He seemed to be doing this, then as soon as he got some freedom, he went right back to it. He hasn't earned even a little bit of trust in my book. Soon he'll be 18 and you'll have no say in what he does. It's easy for me to say these things since I'm not in your situation; I apologize if I sound insensitive. What will get through to him? Would he have any epiphanies if he read some of the graphic descriptions of feelings and diagnoses of some of the victims on the sexual abuse and incest survivor boards here? Would it help him have some ah-ha moments if he was made to volunteer in the children's wards of inpatient mental health centers? I don't know--he needs to really get it somehow.

As far as you getting some of that anger out, in lieu of slapping him repeatedly, maybe you could draw a face on a target and throw darts or do archery, throw rocks at it or something. The Wii Fit helped me expend some energy. I hope and pray you can find a way to sleep. Once I started sleeping a few hours at a time, it helped alot. Jen, my heart goes out to you, and you are in my thoughts and prayers. I wish I lived closer, I'd come give you a hug and take you for coffee. Big (((hugs))) to you. Keep coming here for support, and let us know how things are going. ;0)

Thank you both for your replies, I actually have kept up on both of your stories. I have been coming here for the past 20 months give or take, and it is the ONLY thing that saved me. Aimee, I watched your video and read some of your blog last night. I had been meaning to, but wasn't sure I could handle it. You know what I mean, I am sure. I just didn't know if I had the strength to feel the pain of another abused child. But you gave me a lot of insight to what my daughter may face as she gets older and that I need to continue to gently push her to talk and heal. I will repeat what I know lots of us have told you, you are amazing, strong, beautiful, special and very loveable. You are have a giving nature and a kind soul. I, like everyone else who has read your words am struck by the maturity you have, even as you struggle with the child inside who has suffered so much. You are incredibly self-aware. I know I am not your parent, but I am so proud of who you are. I appreciate you sharing. I have no doubt that what I learn from your struggles will help me help my daughter.

Laura - I know how hard this is on you, I am in such a similar spot as you mentioned. I haven't shut my son out - YET. I am waiting to see what he does. He was willing to take responsibility and has completed his residential treatment program. He just got moved into a different out-patient treatment program. For the first 6 months after he was released into "foster care" he was in a program that was brand new and not really ready to be handling him. They gave him freedom that he shouldn't have had and he relapsed into pornography. he came clean and seems to be doing pretty well in this new program. They have much stricter rules and he has a new therapist that is awesome. He can be "charming" and so I am always worried that a therapist will be smitten with him and think he is doing so great. But this guy is really aware of the games he could try to play. He also has had a caseworker/probation officer that is very experienced in this and has years under his belt. He also is onto my son and can't be 'played'.

If my son shows that he cannot feel remorse or empathy for his victim(s) then I will close the door on him. I have no problem with that. He is 17 now. Soon to be 18. H had just turned 16 when he was picked up. My daughter will NEVER be alone with him. She won't be around him until she is sure she wants to, her therapist is sure it is ok, and I am sure it is ok. They are supposed to have a meeting someday where he tells her that he is solely responsible for what happened, etc. But I think that is a long way off yet.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent and boosting me up. You guys are so great. Everyone here has contributed to me still being sane is one way or another!!!! Love you all! Hugs!!

I,

Bandmom, I just saw your reply. You have been a huge part of me surviving this ordeal. I didn't realize we were both new here when I got here. I thought you had been dealing with this for a while. Your advice is always right on. I went thru these emotions at the beginning, thought I was better, but now realize I probably was just stuffing it down so that we could have some peace. I don't show any of this anger to my kids. They don't need that. My daughter knows I cry, but sheesh, I cried all the time even before this came out!!! They know I am a baby!!! I will not let him any where near her until everyone agrees she is ready. She is not old enough or wise enough or experienced enough to know what is best for her. He will be 18 in a month, but because he is still in custody I still have a bit of a say in what goes on with him. I am not too worried, though, because his parole officer is awesome and knows exactly what the score is with my son. He will be sure that he is not out there screwing up. I agree so much with your thoughts on him doing something that would make him see the effects of his actions. Also, he needs to be in the service of someone . As in volunteering at an elderly center, etc. A job is fine, but SERVICE is how you learn empathy or at least develop it more. He always seemed like a "caring" and "tender" kid. Now I don't know if it was an act. Time will tell I guess. Hugs to you, I gotta go to a Cub Scout pack meeting. Yipppeee!!!

I cried when I read your post this morning. Cried for you, your daughter, and my little girl and me. I had never seen in words exactly how I feel. My husband's little brother was my little girl's abuser. He was her hero too. I have never let my emotions out and your post really hit me hard. Don't apologize for how you feel hon! You are entitled to be able to get that out. It actually helped me. I still hate my brother-in-law.

He lived with us beginning at age 14. The only difference is I never was able to get attached to him. He always seemed distant and I felt a bit "off". But he was my husband's baby brother and I felt it was our responsibility to take him in after his father died and he was left along. (mother disappeared along time ago). I beat myself up every day for not listening to my "sixth sense".

I know what you mean about your husband feeling like its better just to put it away and not talk about it. He can't talk about it because he is afraid he will snap and kill him. I cried for him too. The fact that he can't allow himself to feel the pain that this has to be causing him. He and I don't talk about it period because he blows up and seems to get angry at me rather than his brother.

I don't think there is a time table for getting past what has happened or moving on. Each of us is different and we have to allow ourselves to heal gradually. It seems to that when you are trying-someone comes along and inflicts more pain and emotional upheaval into an already volatile situation. Or does something that re-opens the wound.

I've been trying to deal with this for over a year now and I can't. I agree that you should get a therapist for yourself. I took that step and made an intake appointment. Until then, a good scream into your pillow when no one is home is a good way to release that pain.

Please don't feel bad for venting. I'm pretty sure that's what we should do for each other and ourselves. I'm glad you didn't just do a journal entry. You helped me today. I was feeling really bad and you put into words so much of my feelings. Thank you for sharing with us. I will be praying for you and your family.

Anna

Thank you Anna, I think you are right on - venting does help when you are venting to people who understand. I am so grateful for this support group. I am not sure where I would be if I hadn't stumbled upon this place early on in this ordeal. Yeah - I scream in my pillow! I cry in the car when no one is with me. But I think you're right - it's time for some therapy for me. Sometimes I feel almost too exhausted to go thru therapy, but I know it will help. I am glad I was able to help you in some way. It does help knowing we are not alone in this, there are others who understand and don't judge. Hugs to you, I am so sorry you have to go thru this too. Jennifer