Ugh, so sorry for all you are going thru. I'm a Christian too, and I agree, some people just don't know when to not open their mouth. {{{hugs}}}

I definitely understand where you're coming from on this. Even though I go to church regularly and help teach the children's classes, I don't consider myself to be Christian because our church is Unitarian Universalist, which is kind of non-denominational. That said, our church still has Judeo-Christian roots and uses Christian teachings sometimes. I was really irritated that one day this summer the children's message was on the importance of forgiveness -- no matter what. Um, that's a nice notion from a philosophical standpoint. And, I do think it is healthy to eventually gain perspective and peace with those who have wronged us .... I hate that teaching because for an abuse sufferer it is just toxic and it confused my daughter. Similarly, while I'm very grateful to my M-I-L for her support and guidance, she's a counselor through a Christian church. She's been good enough not to say that being more religious would help my situation, but I can tell that she thinks that.

I once lived my life strictly as the bible teaches. Not so much anymore. But two things I was taught that help me.

1. God did not plan for my children to be abused. He gave men free will to do as they please. He does not have pre set plans for them. Unfortunately, my father in law (who claims to be a Christian) used his free will to abuse my children.

2. No amount of judgment from man will touch what God's judgment has set forth for him.

That all being said, my faith in humanity and religion has surely been shaken.

Feel free to vent as much as you like. I hope you find we are here to help, even if it is only to listen.

Warning: This is a long one!

I also resent that "it's part of God's plan" thinking. That just makes people feel better about what they cannot control, and allows them to step back in "admiration" of the victim without getting involved in her/his healing. It's a very cowardly stance.

There's a great old book from the 1970s written by a Rabbi Kushner called "When Bad Things Happen to Good People." Very user-friendly discussion. It makes the case that, in order to believe that God exists, we have to decide which he is: all-loving, all-knowing, or all-powerful. Given the crap his children sometimes (often) endure, we can only believe he is two of these, at most, or none of these.

So, it's possible for him to be all-knowing/all-present and all-powerful, but a loving God would not allow this stuff to happen. If, indeed, it's "part of his plan," then it sure is a sadistic one (and what kind of numbskulls would we have to be to worship THAT?). It you believe he is all-loving and all-powerful, then you can't accept that he has a clue what's going -- again, what good is that God? Where will he be when you call out for help? Will he hear? If not, that's benign neglect, at best. The only way we can believe in a God who loves us and is always present is to drop the idea that he is all-powerful -- at least all-powerful in the way we would like, in terms of prevention, instant karma, etc. If God loves us, and knows we are suffering (or sharing in his joy, etc.), then maybe his power is in just that -- his deep comfort for things he cannot prevent.

How do we access that deep comfort? I think we can look for the answer in the best of all our religious traditions -- mindfulness (aka awareness of ordinary miracles), meditation (prayer), a call to self-renewal (or rebirth, however it looks in any religion). In other words, it's about focusing on our spirituality, regardless of our denomination. And BTW, Jesus didn't say, "Hey, let's start a church and name it after me!" I think he would be totally cool with practicing Buddhists and Jews and Muslims and any form of native worship that follows his example of compassion. (Interestingly, in what used to be Nazi Germany, high school students are now required to study religion -- all forms of religion -- to try to get to the core of what all religions have to offer; Germany has not been a military aggressor since the defeat of the Nazis. That's called learning.)

I remember distinctly this happening one day: I was praying and I suddenly felt utterly abandoned. I could almost hear the sound of an icy wind, a suctioning of all energy from my connection to God, and to the spirit of my father, who had died six months earlier. I felt ALONE. And I have not been able to pray deeply -- not in the way that I used to pray -- ever since.

That was right around the time that my daughter was first raped by the Nazi. She was at the Nazi's house when my spiritual abandonment happened. I had no idea of this monstrosity at the time -- that would take another 15 years before my daughter summoned the courage to tell me about it. At some point as my world was turning upside down, I remembered that sound of icy wind. I realize now that God wasn't abandoning me -- he was answering the prayer I didn't know then to pray: help my beautiful baby!!! He kept her alive that day. When the Nazi asked, after raping her, if anyone knew that she was at his house, God gave her the strength and courage to say "Yes," because I did know she was there. I am convinced that if she had been too scared, because of her newfound shame, and said "No," we would have spent that evening with the police, searching dumpsters for her body.

Take it easy on yourself, Broken, and everyone else. God may not be able to control the world he created -- he may not even be able to MAKE a plan -- but sometimes the mysterious ways in which he works show his true power. See if you can believe only that you are loved, and that God knows your suffering. Those who say that suffering is part of God's plan are really trying to comfort themselves, and clinging to an unexamined definition of power. I now believe that God's power is not in his planning, but in his healing.

Thanks all. This has taken over my entire life. I just don't see how it will ever get any better. I guess a way to describe it is that I'm stuck in my own head, consumed by rage, disbelief, and sadness for my daughter and the world is just going on around me. I feel isolated.

You know, I am torn about answering your post. On the one hand I want to encourage you but on the other hand my faith might cause you to stumble even more.
I too am a Christian. I have a total of 4 children who have been sexually violated, 3 with the current circumstances. My children had knives, scissors, feet, fists, belts, straps and whips used to physically abuse them. My best friend of 8 years deceived me by never telling me what they DID tell her...they were being hurt and inappropriately touched by her 4 kids. My on-the-spectrum 12 year old was orally raped just a couple years after he almost died from a life-threatening illness at the age of 6...abuse continued until he was 11 1/2. My daughter was raped at knife point at the age of 4...she was abused by 2 boys and a girl including being forced to film pornographic films with them until she was 8 1/2. She has over 30 scars on her body from weapons. Then she acted out with my oldest son who had just survived a year of cancer and he being in a yolo phase reciprocated. My 4 year old son was an anally raped when he was 2 1/2...abused by all 4 monster children the year his special brother was fighting for life in the hospital from cancer. He too has at least 10 scars from weapons on his upper back. We learned about all this the day after we got back from our Make-a-wish trip to Alaska...all the hope of trying to get back to normal was dashed. Over a month since our case was FINALLY submitted to the DAY, we still have no knowledge of their plans going forward.

If you want to hear my take on forgiveness or God's plans, let me know. It's probably not what you want to hear but I'd love to share with you.

Maybe one day but I'm not ready, I'm so sorry for you and your children.

It does take over your brain, your whole life . Faith won't make that go away. It just may help you to feel less alone when another human isn't available with whom to share. Getting unstuck is a long process. I hope my sharing of my own religious perspectives didn't offend anyone. I just wanted to spell out how I've been able to continue to find spiritual healing and hope in spite of the fact that this horrible thing has happened to my daughter, to me, to our whole family.

My faithtoo has taken a beating but I am afraid not to have faith,what is there without faith,I don't want to feel that.I have no idea why God did not stop this,my daughter had enough problems already.my daughter was always faithful,loved church and seemed to know things about God that I sometimes wondered how she knew it.She was always inviting kids from the neighborhood to church with us and even started a Bible club at school.A couple weeks ago she told me she has no faith.I let it be,the last thing she needs is a lecture.I decided I would have faith for her until she could do it for herself and I told God that.But that does not mean that I am not so angry with God,I am,and I am angry with him for all of you.And I hold him to his word that he will not give us more than we can handle and that revenge will be his.BTW I would never tell anyone to have faith,that it must have happened for a reason or that forgiving will make you feel better,it is a personal decision ans a simple" I'm so sorry,how can I help" would speak volumes.isn't that what God would want? Help each other,feel compassion for each other and put others before yourself?

What an awesome kid, hopefulmama.

I wonder if she might not be adding this to her pile of guilt -- that she's given up on God. She may never come back to God, but it might help her to know that you'll keep her faith safe for her while she releases her anger. Instead of a lecture, it's a gentle favor.

I am not a Christian anymore, but I can still send you bigtime hugs and emotional support. :-) Our world was rocked as well when our 4year old disclosed. It's almost impossible to make sense of any of the things we believed before the disclosure. Not much makes sense anymore. Again, sending hugs to you

My daughter doesn't even know if she believes in God anymore and says she is now bisexual

I completely understand I was furious at God and myself for what happened. I had such hopes and dreams for my daughter and the thing I most didn't want was sexual abuse and by just 3 years of age that was taken from me. It was a dark place for a good while but by God's grace I did emerge ... I do have restored hope for my daughter. I continue to believe and pray.

You know, a symptom of my four-year-old and my daughter's abuse was they began not wanting to pray. I learned from my daughter that a lot of her reasoning was because of guilt...guilt that she instigated with her brother and he got all the flack for it, guilt for doing the sexual stuff at all...she still believed in God. As she's healed, her prayer life has become more and more normal. My little guy is the same way...as he's healing, his prayer life is getting stronger.

I simply point them to the proof that God exists (pardon my sarcasm but it makes my point):
1) Their lives were spared even with weapons involved!
2) We just so happened to go to monster family's house, where my baby crawled toward the stairs and I followed him, where I overheard that one conversation that lasted seconds about an inappropriate topic for 8 year old little girls to be discussing, where my mommy gut told me to make sure and talk about it late. My daughter just so happened to FINALLY be ready to share when I sat her down later on to talk...even after having asked at least once a year since she was 3 if anyone had ever sexually touched her!
3) The timing of us finding all this out just so happened to be before the interactions between my son and daughter became a legal-worthy case!
4) I just so happened to be schooled enough after all the research I did to pick up on the fact that something had happened to my four-year-old right before the forensic interview so he could participate.
5) The system of therapy that is supposedly the best in children's trauma therapy merrily failed us twice so that we looked elsewhere for therapists and just happened to find the most amazing therapists for my children!
6) My oldest son's therapist just so happened to be an ex-CPS-case-worker and was there every step of the frustrating way of trying to get our kids therapy, advocating for their story, the detective dismissing the case, new CPS cases being opened so that he advocated for our good parenting TO CPS multiple times!
7) I just so happened to lose my medical insurance which necessitated me needing a new therapist which I had already met as a possible fit for my daughter that she rejected. She's a perfect fit for me! AND, she's FREE with victims of crime so no more copays!
8) I was able to keep 3 friends who knew the other family and believed me over them and advocated for us to the point of the local church protecting other children by not allowing monster boy to attend club.
9) My husband almost died causing him to lose his regular job. When he was able to get back to work the same company that fired him actually begged him to come back and work contractually which means not only does he have more control over his social environment (i.e. not being verbally abused or overused) but he is making more money and working less hours than before which has allowed him to take one day a week to help people go to therapy!
10) No charges were brought against my son even though we reported it AND filed a police report ourselves! This has allowed us to be able to heal and become a family again.
11) Even my past with my narcissistic/sociopathic parents has allowed me to be able to see the big picture on monster family rather than doubting my own children's fantastical stories!
12) Through my children disclosing, we were able to help numerous other victims/potential victims get help AND/or escape from the abuse!
13) Having a mom who had PTSD helped me to know what the crazy symptoms my children started to exhibit were so that I could advocate for them when I had people either telling me that they didn't need therapy or that they just had regular anxiety.
14) I survived falling out of a van going 60 mph on a San Francisco Freeway when I was 4...with barely a scratch or bruise! I should have died...but...

Anyways, my list could go on and I'm sure there are many who might see it and think I'm just trying to squeeze a silver lining out of all the bad that has been tossed on us BUT, I share because, my kids find it very encouraging and uplifting to see the proof that God is really there listening to their prayers. Reminding them of these various happenings, not at all distracting from the reality of what we deal with on a daily basis nor dismissing their need for traditional therapy, grounds them in their own, little faith. I have watched them blossom and gotten to re-know my children now that who they TRULY are is not being overcast with their survival strategies!

Anyways, without putting too much more out there about what I believe, just keep reminding your children of the positive and comforting parts of what they do have. Rejoice in each little happy that occurs. Pray for them or with them. Sooner than later, hopefully, they will begin to see/feel/hope the same way that you do. I HATE the pain our babies have to endure...but I'm so grateful that I know how to comfort them!

Consciously looking for every little good thing you can is a powerful healer. I'm glad you mentioned that, warriormomx5.

Interestingly, wmx5, when I was in my early teens, I also fell out of a van (only doing about 35, though, and on a country road). That sense of being flung completely free from normal expectations is a pretty good metaphor for being the parent of a survivor.