Hi there Hoyt, I remember when you were here a while ago. Thanks for giving us your update. It's amazing to me how many different stories there are here, and it's even more mind boggling all the different possibilities and paths there are that the stories can take as time goes on. I'm so sorry there are continuing struggles, but glad that things are improving for you, your husband, and your daughter. The piece that's the most important is figuring out what needs to happen for repairing and healing what's gone wrong in the relationships with our kids and our spouses, and everyone healing from the trauma.

Punishment for the offender/justice for the victim is one thing that can possibly be part of healing and moving on and is so helpful if and when it occurs, but if it doesn't happen, a way to heal and be a part of life still has to be pursued. Our son was also 18 when we found out, and he did choose to report it eventually after speaking to a few counselors about it. I don't know if he would have reported if his offender wasn't a teacher and my son knew other students needed to be protected.

I wonder if your daughter would be helped by looking at the other group here on DS: http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Sexual-Abuse/support-group
She may find some support and ideas to help her with healthy relationships. I don't know if she'd be open to another idea, which is seeing if a women's center, or rape crisis center, or battered women's center in your area had a support group she could look into where she could meet others who are able to really empathize with her thoughts and feelings. I imagine it's very difficult for her to really trust anyone when a trusted family member violated that trust so severely.

It's really good she's going to school and working. It seems she needs to take really tiny baby steps in going forward. I will pray for that to continue, and I'll keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers. It's really good to hear from you again! (((hugs)))

HoytJP- I am so sorry that your family has been thru this. There is no greater pain for a parent than to have their child abused by a family member that you thought you could trust and claimed to love you and your children.

This man is a pedophile so I am sure that he has other victims. Hopefully with time someone will come forward so that he will be stopped and put in jail where he really belongs. I don't know why some family supports these monsters but it happens often and I am sorry for that slap in the face.

I just spent the morning shredding more pictures of my son (at 12, the age he was when he sexually abused our youngest daughter who was only 4 ). Just when I think the worst of the pain is over more surfaces and I have to do something to purge the pain and disgust that I feel about him.

Our daughter is 20 months from disclosure date (she was 17 when she finally told us) and our son has been out of our lives since we found out. She is doing very well now and has come a very long way in the last year and a half. We almost lost her and it has been a very long hard road back to her sanity and ours.

I want to give you hope. I, too am a survivor of child sexual abuse ( at age 3 and 10). I didn't disclose until I was 29. Eventually it will become too much for your daughter to keep pushing down and I pray that she will then get herself into therapy. Therapy saved myself and my daughter.

It sounds to me like your daughter was brainwashed by her uncle, which does happen frequently when it is a loved family member. Our daughter had a very difficult time separating the good brother from the bad brother. Now she hates him and wants no contact ever. I can't even imagine how you must feel when you hear that she is still seeing them and him. It has taken everything in me not to hurt my own son.

Your daughter will need you when she does begin to really deal with what this has done to her. I pray that she does soon, for her sake and yours. God bless your family. Keep coming here for support.


Warmly,
Laura

HoytJP, although our specifics differ, we have much in common. My daughter, now in her mid-20s, just disclosed to us this year that, when she was 8, she was raped by an adult neighbor and subsequently involved in a sexual "arrangement" with his son for months. She had no illusions that this man or boy did any of what they did "out of love," and yet she took on many behaviors and attitudes similar to those your daughter displays and expresses (although she went further and became addicted to pain pills for two or three years, also without our knowledge).

Your comment about friendship rang a particular bell with me. Our daughter seemed to be incredibly compassionate, especially in high school, befriending all kinds of kids, but taking a special liking to the ones who had it "worse" than she did. To us, "worse" meant kids whose families were in some way troubled (as ours, thank the Lord, was decidedly not) or in some way outside the "norm": kids whose parents were divorced or who fought all the time, or were gay, alcoholic, or substance abusers. We took some pride in begin able to treat those kids to some happy family time -- meals that were friendly and chatty -- and even took one with us on vacation, something her family could not afford. We would still gladly help any of these kids, but what we did not realize then was that our daughter felt she had so much in common with them: anxiety, depression, a sense of being supremely different from, and inferior to, others in our fairly homogeneous (unfortunately) community. Unknown to us, within a year or two they were indulging in various substances as a way to escape. The secretiveness began to build, and although we still had a warm relationship, for the most part, we had no idea that our daughter lived SUCH a private life.

She was able to maintain a few positive friendships with kids who were not "troubled," but this ability to find what she apparently thought was HER denominator -- the "outcasts" (I hate the idea that kids can be outcasts!!) -- made it very easy for her to feel quickly comfortable with the very, VERY dangerous people she eventually relied on to find what she needed to feed her habit. She felt so unlike her high-achieving old high school classmates that she was uncomfortable reaching out to others with her own true, high-achieving interests when she was in college. Again, she gravitated toward classmates who were troubled -- one was thousands of dollars in credit card debt because she smoked so much marijuana every day.

My reason for telling you all this is because it may be that kids who feel they have so much to hide seek others who have something to hide. Often, these kids' friend-making abilities are compromised as well. They believe that this is the "best" they can do -- to hang out with the "outcasts" -- and never develop the skills they need to befriend people who are emotionally healthier. This may be where your daughter is right now. It will take time and steady exposure to young adults with her true interests in common before she may be able to work up the courage to introduce herself and suggest a get-together. Thank God she's in community college so she can get some of that exposure to people and ideas that really interest her!! My daughter got a glimmer of what her true "peers" are like when she was in grad school (she had to drop out last fall -- long story for another time, perhaps), and knows that those are the people she really wants to be friends with eventually; when she gets back into grad school, I believe her self-esteem will have risen to where it really belongs.

A difference between my daughter and yours is that my daughter was willing to seek counseling to help her with her PTSD from the abuse. Since February, she has gone twice a week -- a huge expense for us, but worth it; she is making real progress, and we've begun to heal as a family. I would like to find some resources that may help for your daughter to reconsider her need for therapy. Sorry, I need to sleep, but I will be thinking of you and your daughter. Our children deserve friends and healthy relationships!!! And we parents can't really relax until we see some of those taking root; these are indicators that our children will be able to survive and to thrive on their own, as part of a community of healthy peers.

I probably sounded very condescending, with regard to my daughter's former friends. I don't think I'm better than anyone, but I do think that my kids are as GOOD as anyone. In fact, I have to confess that, because I'm a loving parent like you, I think my kids are better than anyone!!

And what I forgot to mention is that currently, as a result of my daughter's former drug habit and having to leave grad school (not directly related), she has NO friends. It's heartbreaking, but she is doing the hard work she needs to do to understand and believe in herself so she can make new friends again.

One of the worst things about the nightmare of incest is how it messes with the minds of victims and their families. You and your husband have risen above the denial and are on the path to healing, leading the way for your daughter when she is ready. She has already taken huge steps by disclosing, going to school, and working. I pray that she will seek counseling to help her fully deal with what has happened to her.
I too will never understand why people support the abuser. They just don't get the devastation it has on its victims.
The suggestions from bandmom are really excellent. My daughter struggled with feeling alone, that she was the only child that this has happened to. There are not any support meetings for victims in our area currently, which is really horrible. Maybe if your daughter is able to not feel so isolated, she can better come to terms with what has happened. She is an adult, however, so it will be up to her.
Sending you prayers of strength, love, and hope. You are so strong and your daughter is lucky to have you and your husband.

Thank you so much for each & everyone of your comments & stories. I feel deeply for each of you & you have touched my heart.

I hope that my daughter will find the strength to seek therapy. But I don't personally think that will happen until she finds the 'maturity' to realize that she doesn't have to be a 'victim' anymore - She can make her own decisions to effect her environment, instead of 'blaming' the environment/people for her own mistakes, so to speak. I will always be waiting for this & help her when she reaches this point.

It is heartening to know that some of my daughter's behaviors are more of a syptom of the abuse - that other girls are doing this too. Growing up, she also found 'outsiders' as friends: blind girl, extreme family dysfunctions, etc. We also thought that as part of her compassion & having a sister w/DS. I understand about the dangerous people: At one point we cahd to stop her from leaving the house because we felt that she was putting herself in a situation of the 'slave girl market'. While I know she stills has her 'secret' life (I still snoop when I can), it seems to be just more inappropriate (married men). But I just take a deep breath & wait for her to realize that her decisions are based on being a victim.

Unfortunately, I don't feel yet that I can have intimate communication w/her yet on this subject. I will never again put myself in the position to be a 'badguy' towards her. Growing up, I was always the disciplinarian (spelling?), dominate personality. My husband was always the 'knight that saved her from me'. This is where I think her hatred for me came up.

Does anyone have any ideas how I can get her into healthy relationships (w/out mentioning therapy) - she'll become stubborn at that point... Are there any previous discussions on this subject? I do so much want to help her...

Oh I am always the "bad" guy too in our house. It has definitely caused some problems with my husband and I. We agree on most things but he wants to baby our daughter which I will not allow. Both kids still have the same rules and limitations as before disclosure. Of course I love them more than anything on this earth and I do cut her some slack when she is feeling overwhelmed. You have shown her love and respect by giving her boundaries. That is what a parent should do. You also know your limitations with her which is very respectful and I admire your ability to recognize them.
My daughter is 11 so I can still sort of control her activities but respecting her ability to make good decisions. As your daughter is an adult, it is really up to her to choose. I lavish praise on my children when they make good decisions. Maybe you could talk to her about how very proud you are of her for disclosing and making great decisions to work and go to school. You are modeling a healthy person by getting the support you need to be an even greater person, and more importantly, a strong, brave woman. She has great potential and I think in time, she will recognize it.

:) Patience... I've been hearing that word alot... Not very good at it... learning though. Her time, not mine. This is her story, I'm just a part of it.

HoytJP- I wanted to share with you that my actions as a young adult (before I disclosed my abuse) were much like your daughter's actions. I also looked for the people with the broken wings , they usually became my closest friends. It was a form of denial of my own deep problems and it gave me a sense of purpose in the world. I could help someone as long as it wasn't myself. I still struggle with this at times and have a very difficult time putting myself first.

I also had a serious problem with alcohol ( which your daughter doesn't have thank GOD!) I would watch for this though because I didn't start drinking until I was nineteen. I also had problems saying no to men , using men and never had a monogamous relationship until I met my husband. I also had and still have an eating disorder. Unfortunately, sexual abuse puts down deep roots and it does take time and a lot of therapy once someone faces their demons.

I don't want to scare you but I do want you to know that for some of us it takes time to figure out what the abuse has done to us. For years I just thought that I was a terrible person. It took me getting married and having children before I realized what had really happened to me. Once the light when on I was able to get the help that I needed and do the hard and necessary work of saving myself.

Many years later I am able to look back and feel only compassion for my younger self. I was doing the best that I could at that time with the knowledge that I had. Abuse is like a big , weeping and painful sore in the beginning and now many years later it is a scar that has faded. I know it is there and it will always be with me but it doesn't hurt anymore and it remains a reminder of my strength and my decision to save myself.

Your daughter has you and when she is ready it will make a huge difference in her healing because she will have that amazing support. You said, " :) Patience... I've been hearing that word alot... Not very good at it... learning though. Her time, not mine. This is her story, I'm just a part of it." These are truly words of wisdom so I know that in time your daughter will find her way onto that path of healing.

I am so glad that she has a mother like you! Laura

HoytJP, my younger daughter also had special needs. a communication disorder that required much of my time, and probably made it harder for my older daughter to want to disclose, because I'm sure I seemed too busy to listen sometimes and I'm sure she didn't want to make me more upset at other times. Down Syndrome requires a similar vigilance. It's another sin, and source of UNDESERVED guilt we parents feel, that our children who SHOULD have been carefree and happy were devastated by the abuse of others when we didn't know to look!!!!

I'm still thinking about you. I'll see what I can find about resources for forming healthy relationships.

Here's an older book I've been working through. It may be useful for your daughter, Hoyt. It's kind of a gentle nudge toward therapy without saying THIS IS YOUR ONLY CHOICE -- it allows the reader to decide, and then gives pointers for choosing a qualified therapist:

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Trauma-Survivors-Understanding-Reclaiming/dp/1600940617/

Another point that jumped out from what you've said, Hoyt, is that it seems to me that your daughter may not yet truly see herself as a victim. We all want to believe we have some control over our lives, and admitting that we've been had can be very demoralizing, even in the simplest matters! Have you ever clicked on one of Facebook thingies to "see what happens when you click here"? Of course: NOTHING happens, and we feel like idiots. It can only be infinitely more humiliating for a child to realize that he or she has been made to believe that sexual activity was appropriate, and to accept that it was NOT an act of "love" on the abuser's part!!! If she still thinks she was singled out for her uncle's "affections," she doesn't even fully realize that she's a victim. So I think gentle nudges may be one way to help her open her eyes to the reality of her situation. Also, it may help her to gain better perspective on her own childhood if she can consider how she would feel if she were to have a child of her own who was forced into a sexual relationship with an adult.

Here's something I haven't previewed, but that sounded promising:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/askheartbeat/2010/03/21/can-abused-children-have-healthy-relationships