One fact remains that our country soon will have a 16 trillion dollar deficit. Every dollar we spend 40% goes towards paying (I think the interest). We are in a war (Afganastan in which since it started over 1,000 precious souls were killed. Just last month 53 were killed (going by memory here so not sure if that is right).

Whether or not someone votes is a personal choice. I really in 08 listen to the candidates, the debates, the facts and was completely hook winked into believing the "hope and change" touted was going to happen.

I am for sure going to vote November 6. I definitely know who I won't vote for not sure yet who I will.

Wag, I don't know if the UK's Daily Mail is really the best reference to use but within the article they said this:
"The figures include children, the retired and others who do not participate in the labour force.

Nonetheless, they largely reflect the sudden jump in the unemployment rate after the 2008 financial crisis and subsequent recession.

Unemployment rose from around five per cent at the beginning of 2008 to a high of 10 per cent in October 2009.

As well the increased number of jobless people, the reduction in the number of taxpayers is a result of low-income workers taking pay cuts and reduced hours, and therefore slipping out of the tax system.

It also includes people who illegally fail to file a tax return even though they might have earned enough money to do so."


I think that kid of goes along with what Donna said about the figures being misleading. The population is higher now than the year compared in the article (1984) so even if a smaller percentage is paying, there are still more paying than the comparative year. A large retiring baby boomer generation, kids, disabled (including war vets), the unemployed and underemployed, and all those wealthy folks who tax dodge - who should take most of the blame for not paying taxes? The ones who can't afford to even qualify to pay anything or the ones who just think they are above it?

Why should rich people have more rights than poor people just because they can pay taxes? Does that sound fair? I don't think so...

That is the trouble with numbers... and both parties spin them. For instance when you run out of unemployment you just disappear from the ranks of the unemployed, you are no longer counted. Your still with out a job but the government no longer counts you. Like wise if you lose a good job and end up taking two low paying jobs you are now counted twice as two new jobs created. I heard this 50% number on several news shows... but I merely did a quick search just to be sure I had the number correct. Please feel free to do a bit of research and make sure its correct if you find it important. Now honestly... Did I say rich people should have more rights? I said that people that are not contributing shouldnt vote because they tend to vote for those that give them the goodies. I said that... but boy am I in good company now. I have been hearing a lot and reading a lot how much the unemployed will afect this election. NOW that is my opinion and I am not asking you to agree... I understand and I believe its your right to disagree... But never judge a book by the cover. I have lost everything twice in my life.I have lived in my car, shaved at a gas stations, and showered at the state park. I have done some poaching to feed my family, even crossed a picket line once (something I said I would never do). I know its hard to find a job at times but I also know it can be done. BUT you have to look, make finding a job your job, and work at it. OR you can run out nearly a year of unemployment, find a doctor that will say your not fit to work and apply for disability. Please dont tell me that never happens and I am mean.... do some research.

http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/infographic/2012/02/nearly-half-of-all-americans-dont-pay-income-taxes?query=Nearly+Half+of+All+Americans+Don't+Pay+Income+Taxes

http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/infographic/2012/02/nearly-half-of-all-americans-dont-pay-income-taxes?query=Nearly+Half+of+All+Americans+Don't+Pay+Income+Taxes

Wag, I don't think anyone here said it doesn't happen (course, maybe then the doctors should be held more accountable in those cases that they are saying someone's not fit to work if they still technically are...but that's beside the point) I'm just saying that it's not fair to penalize a whole segment of the population who aren't purposefully ripping off the government just because there are a few people who do. I think there should be more checks in place so the number of people who do cheat gets whittled down to as close to zero as possible. I'm not looking to reward lazy degenerates who are cheating the system...but I do think there are a lot of honest people who are still working hard and getting paid very little for it who can't make ends meet without some governement assistance or make just enough to be living on but hardly enough to be paying into the tax system (and don't forget, there are various deductions people can qualify for that even if you do initially make enough to be paying taxes, your deductions could equate to not paying too...).

Those people shouldn't get to vote because they will support someone who (heaven forbid) will support the programs that are helping to keep their heads above water and get through the hard times? That's like saying millionaires shouldn't get to vote because they're only going to pick the guy who gives them a tax break.

I have voted when I was working and paying taxes and when I was recieving some kind of aid and not working.If we leave only those who have not fallen on hard times vote,we would have no compassion and could wind up living in a even more crazy world than we do.If some has paid into the system for say 20 years and one year has fallen on hard times should that take away their right to vote?
I have chose not to vote at times for reasons which is a right I have.There will all ways be people who use and abuse the system.No matter what.
There are some politicians that want to do good.I think for the most part they are on a power trip and are in it for personal gain and satisfaction.I am an animal lover and I wanted to leave you with this quote that is on the light side and might have some kind of truth behind it.
Ever occur to you why some of us can be this much concerned with animals suffering? Because government is not. Why not? Animals don't vote. ~Paul Harvey

Morning... I'm sorry you dont see the danger. I am not saying take away the programs away although we should try and reduce the fraud. But I am saying this... we have a country where people feel entitled to a living provided by the government. Its no longer help to get you on your feet, its now their lively hood, their job. And yes they do vote for the man that will promise them the most. Consider.... Its against the law to buy votes. If I stood out in front of a polling place and offered 20 dollar bills to any one that will vote for my candidate I will be arrested. But if a candidate says vote for me and I will give you------- (you fill in the blank) then its perfectly legal. Now what if we reach a point (and we are nearly there) when the unemployed, welfare recipients, and disabled (yes I am one) out number those working and paying taxes? 50% is thought to be the tipping point... the point where the worker wont have enough after taxes to feed and house his own family.
I am not a cruel person and would never refuse a person that really needs help... but it is possible to spend more than you have... and that will be our undoing. I never said take away their money... just their right to vote themselves raises... you know, like our Congress and Senate does. LOL

I think you are selling people short Wag.I for one dont vote for promisses.I vote on more of a merit basis.Can a person deliver what he promises.Is what he promisses right for our country?How did he live his life.What are his acomplishments in his life.What are his short commings.The poor and the needy have to be more careful who they vote for they can not aford to just vote for promises.They dont want more hand outs they want hope for a better brighter future.I all ways have been the working poor at one point in time even a non working poor person who needed help.So many of those that do have more try to cheat on taxes.Higher help under the table and will take over the next person in a heart people.You can judge a person on their unemployment status,if thry are on disability or public assistance.It does not speak on the integrity of the person.A poor loving parent on public assistance might vote on a man who she thinks will do more for the country and her or his children will have a better future.A person that is in a etter situation might vote more selfishly.We have to be real careful when we catagrize people.

Sorry for my typos

Sorry for my typos

Wag, do you not realize that we're already at a point where workers can't afford to feed and house their own familys and that is why they don't meet the threshold to pay taxes?

Also, you said "But if a candidate says vote for me and I will give you------- (you fill in the blank) then its perfectly legal." Do you not think that lobbyists, big name corporations, and other big money donors aren't getting deals in return for their campaign funding like tax breaks and pork barrel spending for causes that don't necessarily help the greater good (which comes out of the budget that is paid by taxes)? A candidate saying "vote for me and I won't cut your social program funding" is hardly the same as a candidate taking money from a big corporation in turn for giving major tax breaks (that oh by the way, would affect how much hard working taxpayers would pay to make up for those corporate tax breaks).

It saddens me how bitter you seem to be about the state of our country and our people. Voting for a candidate that supports social programs isn't "voting for a raise for yourself" as you say, it's voting for someone who won't let the struggling middle class and poor fend for themselves by killing those needed programs. There is no promise that those programs will be given budget increases to pass on to recipients - just a promise that they won't be cut. Hardly the equivalent of a raise - more like the equivalent of not getting a pink slip, which by the way, a lot of the people on those programs already have received, hence their need for the programs.

You want to not spend more than you have...? How about making those who can afford to pay more actually do so? Roll back the Bush era tax cuts - they're not helping us in any way. Before those tax cuts we had a surplus and now we have a debt. Roll them back and make the wealthy pay the rates they used to pay and we can get our country back on track. Obama wants to roll them back. Romney not only wants to keep them but also wants to make those tax cuts even greater for the wealthy which will only make things even worse. Want to talk about a sense of entitlement? How about rich folk that don't want to pay their share...?

Morning My Friend,

Wag, do you not realize that we're already at a point where workers can't afford to feed and house their own families and that is why they don't meet the threshold to pay taxes? I sure do… as I have said I have been there. The problem is the poor economy, we can agree on that. Where we disagree is how to improve the economy. Until the economy turns around raising taxes hurts the middle class. When you tax a business the owners costs increase. He can raise his prices and that hurts us, he can lay off some employees and that means more folks on assistance, or he can move his business to Mexico or some other country. All of these things harm the taxpayer… every time you pull up to the gas pumps or go to the grocery store you have less and less to buy what you need. You have less to spend and that hurts the economy. Donations to charities are down… because disposable income is down. You will say that my taxes didn’t go up… but I pay more and more each year as my deductions disappear. I do dog transports… or I used to. Most of us are retired or disabled and on fixed incomes. The transports are almost dried up because the gas prices went up, food went up, rent went up…. Tes give a rich man money and what does he do? That is cut his taxes and increase his profits. He usually hires that man or two he needs, he expands his business, or he buys the new machinery and vehicles he needs. You might say he puts it in the bank and sits on it… but he really doesn’t. He will invest that money in the stock market IF he can see a profit to be made and that allows another business to expand. Like wise give a poor man money and what does he do? He buys those kids the shoes they need. He might say lets go see a movie or baby needs some clothes… but it helps the economy too. Every body benefits from tax breaks. If you tax the rich too high you slow the economy. I know we wont agree… and that’s OK. I will never change your mind and although my mind is open… I can see we are headed for a disaster. You cant spend your way out of a depression using borrowed money, its been 4 yrs and things are worse. They tell us its better… but look all the places we have had to cut back… and we are still cutting and the prices are still rising.




Also, you said "But if a candidate says vote for me and I will give you------- (you fill in the blank) then its perfectly legal." Do you not think that lobbyists, big name corporations, and other big money donors aren't getting deals in return for their campaign funding like tax breaks and pork barrel spending for causes that don't necessarily help the greater good (which comes out of the budget that is paid by taxes)? A candidate saying "vote for me and I won't cut your social program funding" is hardly the same as a candidate taking money from a big corporation in turn for giving major tax breaks (that oh by the way, would affect how much hard working taxpayers would pay to make up for those corporate tax breaks).
Saying to me “They do it too… is like saying the system is fine, don’t try and fix it.” My friend you are right and that needs to stop, like wise look at all the goodies our Congressmen and Senators get. We can only dream about the free vacations, nice dinners, and toys the lobbyists buy. No sooner did Obama care pass than special interests started lobbying to be exempt. Your Congressmen and Senators are exempt… why? Don’t they at least owe us the decency of spending it wisely, being careful not to waste it or spend it on programs that don’t work?

“It saddens me how bitter you seem to be about the state of our country and our people. Voting for a candidate that supports social programs isn't "voting for a raise for yourself" as you say”
When you have more people collecting more money than the tax payers can provide what will happen? Look at Greece… the people want their pensions, they want their fat retirements… and will riot if they are told the Government is out of money. So the Government printed more money and the money decreased in value… now they beg money from other countries… We are almost to that point…. And honestly… they do vote for Santa Cause… that’s how and why all of these programs came to be… politicians buying votes.

Everyone should have a right to vote.The rich,the poor,the employed,the unemployed,those who are self employed.Those who are on disability and those who are on public assistance.

Yes mamm it used to work just fine, but what we see now is a whole new thing, a generation of greed. Sadly I fear they are voting to "get stuff" with no regaurd for the good of their country as a whole. When they out number the tax payers we as a nation will collapse economically. Who will want to work when they can make a living staying home and watching TV? Why should people not paying taxes tell those paying how to spend the money theyhave invested in the system? Somebody once said "Democracy has to more than two wolves and a sheep deciding whats for dinner." Just my opinion folks... no politician would ever back such a plan... it would cost him all of those votes. With out votes he would have to return to being a private citizen and work for a living. No more jets, fancy dinners, free vacations, no free gas and cars.... etc etc etc