I don't know that I can be of help, but I fear the same with my son, because my Grandmother had Bipolar. However, I have read many posts, and no one is exactly the same in their experiences. My son who is 7 with ADHD and ODD is consistent across the board. We have the same issues at home, school, church, etc. Others, I have noticed, don't have the issues in some environments, but do in others. I can say that my son is a perfect sweetheart when he is getting his way, but becomes defiant when we say "no" or "it is time to quit" to something he is enjoying. One thing to remember is that Bipolar is generally not diagnosed until adulthood. I have a friend who has a child that was diagnosed with Bipolar for many years, but then was recently put into an inpatient treatment program and they dropped that diagnosis altogether. My understanding is that Bipolar doesn't just go away with time, so it appears she was misdiagnosed. For now, I would worry less about the diagnosis and more about what you can do to change the behaviors. I read a book about "No more meltdowns" and it discussed looking for the triggers that set your child off and then trying to avoid those triggers. That doesn't mean to let your child do anything he wants to do. You just try to word things differently or find more appealing ways (to the child) to obtain the desired behavior. I am definitely not a parenting expert, so I get a lot of my suggestions and knowledge from books. These kids have to be parented differently. The hard part is to figure out what works for your child and to be consistent. With my child any inconsistencies undo anything I have already tried. He looks for weaknesses in adults and uses it to his advantage. I wish you the best!

It seems to me ODD is more like the precusor to a personality disorder. It could go into bipolar...but bipolar goes with certain factors..like sleep and how well you take of yourself. Naturally bipolars have something to do with light and it cycles.

I think ODD has a chance to get under control with the right professional help and guidance. I imagine at adulthood a reevaluation could be done to see if there is anything else occuring or maybe by adulthood the ODD may clear up.

Thanks froggy21. It seems your son is very consistent throughout. Not so with ours. On certain days he can be absolutely lovely and charming, and fairly robust against frustrations coming his way, on other days (which we can now sense and call them "one of those days") anything can tick him off, even if nobody else is in the room. And once he's in that zone the topic can vary every 15 minutes.

I'm not so much looking for the "correct" label to attach to him, but to get him the right treatment. If this is bipolar (and the cycles in which his rage appears seems to indicate that to me) then a mood stabilizer might do the trick. You're the second person telling me that your kid's ODD is fairly constant and predictable, so those are good data points.

I have concerns over my own daughters behaviors and right now am having her treated for anxiety and ODD type symptoms with therapy, zoloft and an RSP one night after school. She is also getting extra help in math at school since some of her ODD type behavior stems around that as well.

My team (for her) including her pdoc and child psychologist think she needs to be watched closely for bipolar disorder since I (her mother) have bipolar disorder and her dad has clinical depression. My facility here in town will not diagnose her with bipolar since there is no official psychiatric diagnosis available until adulthood. I am very aware of what that diagnosis means and what the medications are about. I hesitate very very much to put my daughter on many of the mood stabilizers especially the antipsychotics. Instead I opted to start to get help with the RSP after school that will help teach her DBT mindfulness and other skills to stop destructive behaviors. I am lucky that she is 10 and still wanting to be helped. DBT though helps adults who struggle so it can help kids as well. It saved my life.

DBT therapy is really good for destructive behaviors and I highly recommend any child with behavior problems or what seems to be a mood disorder to get in the class. Some facilities offer a younger class and older class for adolescents.

I know all too well what bipolar looks like and can't say for sure that is what my child is experiencing. But here is a link to a web page I looked at and will keep looking at as she ages:

http://www.jbrf.org/juv_bipolar/approachanddefinition.html


My advice is stay conservative with the psychotropic drugs. Many have long term side effects that could impact your child in a very harsh way. I told my pdoc Trileptal would be the one I would be okay with atleast for a little while if we must go that route. The anti-depressants don't scare me at all...but you have to be careful with high doses if you have bipolar.

Take care and hopefully you will find your answer.

Thanks, MerryMay. I'm bipolar as well and went from Risperdal to Abilify to Saphris to escape some involuntary movements that started to show and which could become permanent. I wouldn't want my son to start on something like that. The link you showed I came across a while ago, you're the first one who knows about it. I wonder if they have a list of practitioners who subscribe to their view.

They very well may have a list. If you find one please post a link here if you can.

I know the new diagnostic book will be coming out either later this year or next and I am excited to see how the dx's have changed or evolved as well..for children and adults.

We have asked ourselves many times is it ODD or Bipolar disorder- Our son can be a dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde in the matter of moments. Then other times I wonder if he's the exorcist. I beginning to realize that I think his behavioral issues stem from underlying learning disorders--especially understanding and comprehending verbal communication. When our son was at the Neuropsychologist office the other day we realized that he had NO CLUE as to what the psychologist was asking him--she is all she wanted him to do was to repeat numbers that she said backwards. So when I saw how he looked at her blankly--I asked if he knew what backwards meant--He had NO CLUE. This lead me to wonder do 6-7 year olds know what that means? As a curious mother I had to ask other kids his age the same questions he was asked--These are kids that are not having LD or behavioral issues--there responses were the same--they had NO CLUE what giving the numbers backwards meant until we gave them a visual clue by using our hands and demonstrating what we meant by backwards. This leads to me to wonder and question some of these drs that are supposed to be experts in their fields---are these kids being diagnosed properly?
So with that said--what are the criterias that have to be met for a child to be diagnosed with such conditions as bipolar or ODD because my son fits the criterias of both if you look at the symptoms. However if you go and look at the symptoms of food allergies, he fits those as well, and yet to date NO DR will test him for food allergies. So as a parent, what direction should you go in? Me being the stubborn B**** that I am, I am going against dr's and having our son tested for physical signs such as food allergies, deficiencies in vitamin and minerals--because all of this can have a huge impact on the neurological/brain connection. As a parent it is our best interest to protect our children and I for one would rather know if there is a deficiency before I start giving him a drug that could do--gosh knows what else to him.---Just a thought to your question if it's ODD or Bipolar to ponder over.
I for one know first hand how food allergies and diseases can impact the body physically, mentally and neurologically. Please consider it as you travel down your path for answers. Don't leave any stone unturned and be persistant and make sure the child gets the best care possibly available. Whether its through standard medical practice or alternatives.

If you were to see my daughter at the mall, you would be hard pressed to ever believe she tells us to shut the hell up and she hates us when she is not getting her way. Every day is a constant battle it seems with a struggle of control. Whether it is getting ready for school or just getting her to agree on where we are going to eat dinner. She is 16 and we attributed a lot of her behaviors to just being a hormone raging teenager. When we final sought out counseling, he told us she had ODD> when I read the signs and symptoms, I swore she was the poster child.....the main issue now is a mood disorder which he now thinks the ODD is secondary to. I asked about her being bi-polar and he said he really needed time, anywhere from 6 to 12 months to really see her moods and most children are not diagnosed till they are adults.
From my experiences with this, my daughter is constant with her ODD behavior. Everyday is a power struggle. From the minute I tell her it is time to get up to school till she goes to bed, there is some type of defiance. We did see some relieve when the dr put her on 10mg of Abilify for the first 6 weeks. Now he believe shes needs an increase to level her moods. Every day is a struggle but some days are better and some days are worse...hope I can shed some light for ya!! ~K