Narcissist Trauma Survival and Recovery Community Group
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Sadly, I am in the process, long considered, of going no contact with my daughter.
I divorced my N/P H 4 years ago, after a long and messy divorce. She has been angry with me, and I thought very stressed by all that happened, so I gave her the benefit of the doubt. She did not give me the benefit of the doubt. Even after seeing what her father is really like, when she had to deal with him on her own, and seeing what I am really like living with me on my own, she still treats me badly and like it is all my fault.
She has had a lot of life problems. Our psych and custody evaluator said she could not be abused since she did not show the signs. Well, she meets most of them now. Her life has not been what was envisioned pre-divorce.
Now she has started verbally attacking me, challenging my personality and my decisions or care of her. (I spend most of my focus over the last few years on my kids.) She has tried to manipulate relatives of mine and my boyfriend. She seemed to think she could fool these people and I would not find out what she did. Wrong on both counts. She minimizes my good qualities and accomplishments. She is obsessed with herself, personal pleasure, fun and entertainment, and staying on the move. Others who work with teens say she is far more narcissistic than the usual teen. Her older and longer-term friends seem to be dropping away. With the ongoing anger, even after understanding more who I am and who her N/P father is, and with the narcissistic behavior and personal attacks, I have decided I can't and do not have to take this from an adult child, and can not take narcissistic abuse from another generation.
I've been facing this possibility for over 2 years. At first, it was horrifying. I was uncertain whether I was seeing her right, but subsequent behavior has made it clearer and clearer until I can no longer miss it.
I guess I just wanted to share with the group, and let people know that sometimes it turns out this way. Does anyone else have experience with going no contact with N or P children of N or P spouses/SOs? The way I feel, I'll check in with her when she's a few years older and maybe has more perspective and growth.
I divorced my N/P H 4 years ago, after a long and messy divorce. She has been angry with me, and I thought very stressed by all that happened, so I gave her the benefit of the doubt. She did not give me the benefit of the doubt. Even after seeing what her father is really like, when she had to deal with him on her own, and seeing what I am really like living with me on my own, she still treats me badly and like it is all my fault.
She has had a lot of life problems. Our psych and custody evaluator said she could not be abused since she did not show the signs. Well, she meets most of them now. Her life has not been what was envisioned pre-divorce.
Now she has started verbally attacking me, challenging my personality and my decisions or care of her. (I spend most of my focus over the last few years on my kids.) She has tried to manipulate relatives of mine and my boyfriend. She seemed to think she could fool these people and I would not find out what she did. Wrong on both counts. She minimizes my good qualities and accomplishments. She is obsessed with herself, personal pleasure, fun and entertainment, and staying on the move. Others who work with teens say she is far more narcissistic than the usual teen. Her older and longer-term friends seem to be dropping away. With the ongoing anger, even after understanding more who I am and who her N/P father is, and with the narcissistic behavior and personal attacks, I have decided I can't and do not have to take this from an adult child, and can not take narcissistic abuse from another generation.
I've been facing this possibility for over 2 years. At first, it was horrifying. I was uncertain whether I was seeing her right, but subsequent behavior has made it clearer and clearer until I can no longer miss it.
I guess I just wanted to share with the group, and let people know that sometimes it turns out this way. Does anyone else have experience with going no contact with N or P children of N or P spouses/SOs? The way I feel, I'll check in with her when she's a few years older and maybe has more perspective and growth.
In your situation, I would make myself unavailable for more abuse. You can't fix her and by keeping up contact with her, you are sending her a clear signal that it is OK to treat you badly. No one deserves to be treated like that. It is super-tough to go no contact with one of your children, but sometimes, it's necessary.
Hard I know.
But then Ns aren't easy x
My daughter is 21. I've been trying to provide better modelling since my divorce for 4 years. I hoped things would get better for her once she got away from home to college, but she became more dysfunctional. I've been clear about trying to help her, but she does not view it that way and has no interest in my help or anything I say. Sadly, her narcissistic and verbally attacking behavior has grown worse over the last year and a half, especially lately due to some recent family changes. So, that is why I have made this decision. But first, I was clear about why, and that did not seem to matter to her.
But meantime..I would say..sorry..but right now you're forcing me to take a big break from you to protect myself from your serious ungrateful disrespect....and if any time you want to see me and be respectful towards me fine..but until then..
My son was behaving in similar ways and he still lives with me (until he finishes college)....I had to put up huge boundaries..I walk away and refuse to engage with him if he's being disrespectful..I wont go in his car with him unless he's willing to speak nicely to me...I have stopped pandering to him..and he knows that hes out if he can't speak to me respectfully....he slips back and is full of self entitlement and it can be very shocking at times..I do worry if hes turning out like my ex..or if I've also given him way too much too easily?
Its very hard to know how much of the behaviour hes picked up off my Narc ex?..which can be very worrying..someone said to me recently..no-one ever told me that the 20 to 23 year olds were going to be a million times worse than the terrible twos!
Hopefully they'll all grow up and realise one day...how good we've been and how we deserve huge respect..
Sorry to hear it. That sounds hard.
I did tell her all that explicitly over and over. And I tried what you suggest for years. Nothing has worked, and now it is just intolerable.
I am waiting for 3 possible things to happen as she grows up more:
1. Her brain to finish forming and hopefully inhibit some of this behavior more (including thinking before saying something)
2. Her to get farther away from narcissistic modelling and see more normal life
3. Her to gain some perspective on how much I did for her and how hard that is, as well as what it takes to make your way in life
Hopefully, she will see. And then we can spend more time together again.
In the meantime, she is doing her best to keep making me be in contact. It is a battle.
Thankfully the girls left home and I get it in very small doses from one now...which I can just about tolerate..But I'll never allow her move back home even if she was homeless..
Its very difficult to know which end is up..If its the Narc modelling or just the sheer societal crass me me me combined with a HUGE sense of entitlement?
I tried very hard to instil good values..good manners and thoughtfulness...so sometimes I also wonder like cobalt1959 wrote..if I just have 'Sap' tattooed on my forehead.
My ex Narc was quite abusive..and although he hid it from my kids..I still wonder if they sucked up his sense of entitlement and extremely rude thoughtless and mean demeanor?
I'm hanging on in...just like you..hoping for the one two and three in the future...But believe me..I know full well how hard it can be not to say... F-off for good..and then run to lock the doors tight..
This is interesting though its us who need the time out! ..
http://www.angriesout.com/teach9.htm
This link is also good...though as they say... if only not dealing with a pathological narcissist...(which most of us here are.. mostly in our primary 'love' relationship or with an ex)
http://www.angriesout.com/teach9.htm
Sorry I took a while to get back to you. I got overwhelmed there for a while and had no extra time to check in.
I would have tried again but she didn't want to bother....Still think Crystalcave its well worth a try if things break down to near finishing having a relationship with your child/young adult..and think all avenues should be exhausted for as long as is possible..Personally I would not feel good about myself at all if I gave up fully on any of my children..
I've got children who have a P/S/N father and the stepmother is worse....
Some things to think about...
The children have been watching how your husband treated you for a long time. Even though you might have hidden the worst of it - the kids would have seen how to treat you.
If it were me- (and I have been dealing with a 16 yr old who displays MANY traits from her father)- these are the things I HAVE done or would do as she gets older... ( i also understand the horror that your child is one of these- I obviously still have hope mine will grow out of it- but I believe some of this behaviour is learned and CAN be unlearned.).....
Decide on your own boundaries and stick to them. Try to stay calm when you are in the situation....
"I dont deserve to be spoken to like that- come back when you can speak to me courteously/respectfully" or however you want to phrase it.
Learn how to say no.
Learn how to disengage gracefully when the behaviour is inappropriate.
I believe you will be best served in getting individual counselling in helping you set these boundaries. You're probably a really giving person which is why you were targeted by a N in the first place.
Teach her appropriate behaviour and boundaries by modelling.... Unfortunately its so much easier to pick up bad habits this way- which she has been doing from her Dad..
Maybe give some of this a try?
Coralie
me as well as my son had witnessed so much verbal abuse and disrespect. I asked
him if he would prefer to go to boarding school as I didn't want to keep living with him
if he was disrespectful and abusive. After his dad moved out he calmed down and
things have been a lot better, but I still know that accepting abuse from anyone is NOT l
loving them. It is actually hurting them as well as hurting yourself.
There is this saying that there is no excuse for abuse. And that also means reactive abuse.
I don't know about you, but I have a very hard time not reacting to someone yelling and
putting me down. Again. fighting and arguing abusively is not love. It does no one any good.
Maybe taking a break can help both of you grow stronger. Give yourself a chance to heal
somewhat and her a chance to take stock of the real world. My adoptive mom was so abusive
to me that I told her I was going to take a break for a number of months. Nothing permanent.
Maybe you could put it that way let's take a 6 month break to get some perspective. Maybe
just letter writing contact instead.
I don't know if that helps at all. Just know you are in my thoughts and that I wish you all the
best moving forward in clarity. Never an easy decision, but when you've tried everything
else, it's understandable to avoid abuse and model self respecting self loving behavior.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions. Probably what I did was closest to what BettyBean suggested.
The good news is that time off between the two of us worked. It took about 3 months of no contact except for required financial matters. For those with teens and young adults, my going no contact did not really hit her until I told her that I blocked her from my Facebook feed. Apparently that was incomprehensible to her as she enjoyed following mine.
She came around and started trying to talk more nicely about topics we shared. That progressed to doing some things we both like together on a tentative basis. Then to asking my advice as a parent. So, we are mostly back to together, though we are both still wary.
What really helped was to focus on the now and the future, not the past. Just before the blowup, we had both been forced to confront the past and bring longstanding issues surrounding her father, my marriage and divorce to a head. Now that that is done, we have been able to move on to looking forward.
Definitely letting her grown and mature and be on her own more helped too. She was working and got more of a dose of real-world. Her brain is still growing too, and more time helped. She has recently gone back to college and 2 years away made a big difference in how she is coping.
So there is hope unless the kids get the wrong genes. I believe, though, that the N/P genes are a mix, and they might only get some, not all. There is always time to unlearn what they have learned, and learn new things over that.