Wow, I never really thought of the fatigue that way before. In regards to the brain having to work harder. Interesting.

To answer your question, I don't know. I wonder the same thing myself. I call myself lazy all the time. But then I realize, I don't even do things I want to do. I don't think it is depression on my part, because I really want to do them. I want to go to the park with my girls. Even take them and just sit and I try and I just can't do it.

And no, there is no normalcy to MS.

I was so tired when I was first dx with MS, I slept all the time and only took out the dogs when they need it and made supper when I had to and then went back to sleep. I slept all the time.
I had that feeling of waking up tired, I hated it so much and I really did not know what to do.
So then my friend who was in a seniors exercise class took me, so I joined and my fatigue slowly went away when I started exercising. So that is how I combated my fatigue, but I do have that odd nap now and then because I still get tired.

OMG Ichy! (it's like when Frank Grimes got nicknamed "Grimey" on the Simpsons) I too am horribly fatigued all the time. And, like you don't sleep very well. I wondered the same thing - since I'm fatigued and sleep all day, is that why I don't sleep at night?

I don't know if you could call anything "normal" with MS, I was severely depressed, upped my anti-depressants, and am changing CRAB drugs. Being off the Interferon and upping the anti-depressants is helping with the depression, I think...

Will we ever know what "normal" is again?

I'm like Tara, I feel lazy a lot of the time and have to remind myself it's just the fatigue and I can't help it. i have a fatigue-related question too that I hope people answer on the discussion board.

I don't have it nearly as bad as you describe though. Before my dx and before the meds, I did quite often!

When applying for disability never write fatigue as one of the reason for needing to go on disability, instead writ MS fatigue, because MS fatige is not in any way like normal fatigue - and this proves it is a different kind of fatigue. I have read post that I agreed with that called it MS lasitude instead of fatigue.

But I think in practice our fatigue comes from a multitude of sources with MS & depression being the largest sources. How could some one NOT be depressed wit the effects MS cause to a person plans for life & I don't think there shoulsd be any shame whats-over acknowledging that depression exist in a normal MS person's life. Its like saying my feet are too big for these shoes so I can't wear these shoes, I have to get a different pair-what's the shame in that? Same as I have MS and I'm slightly depressed most of the time.

oh god ya, fatigue is the worst. I can handle the pain, the stupid walking, the brain farts but damm the fatigue is the worst part of this.
Hope you feel better
Anne

i don't know if this is normal but it certainly is a part of this for me! there are some days that i feel i don't know if i will make it through the day. i am still able to work,( thank goodness i can, but we don't have much choice financially)i too get up tired and go to bed tired. no one understands that you tell them you are tired and don't feel like doing the things that i used to that this is not just being tired ! it is the most awful feeling.yes , in my opinion the depression plays a part in this but this is way past being tired, no one seems to understand.i am tired of being tired! i haven't slept a night through in i don't remember when. i would be courious if other people have the broken sleep at night???? sorry i have carried on so, these last fews days have just been UGH!!!! my best to you hope tomorrow is a better day for you:)

Matz, I would think too that my doctor would want me to have the energy during the day and that I would sleep better, but not. I've trust in my doctor and will therefore follow his direction, but certainly talk to him the next time I'm in to see him about starting back up the provigil. I'm just totally wiped out without any assistance.

Oh yea, lchy is just fine with me! I got a good chuckle off of it. I tend to pronounce it "litchy", hahaha, I got a good laugh anyway.

tarabummuy, yes, the fatigue information was amazing and makes so much sense. Don't feel you are lazy, you can't help being so totally exhausted, and like you said, it's not that you don't want to do these things. I want to shower daily, but find only every other day meets my needs since I don't do anything but lay around! Thanks for making me feel not so alone in this battle.

jodilynn005 - I get to where I want to exercise, and even got some exercise tapes. I'm just too tired to insert them in the machine and go for it. Mabe if I push myself a couple of times exercise will come easier? I just don't have the energy or excitement to exercise, but thanks for the reply. I'll try pusing myself sometime.

Chicagogurl: I just woke from a 4 hour nap, and I'm ready to go back to bed. Can hardly type this because I'm so sleepy. I have a feeling i will never feel normal again!

thisiscra: It seems great minds think alike, our posts are so alike! I hopefully will get some good advice from your post too.

nnyll: MS lastitude huh? Well, should I decide to retire I will be sure to use that term vs. fatigue. I know I'm depressed, just how much to the point that all I want to do is sleep? I mentioned I just had my anti-depressants bumped up 100% so I cannot imagine that my fatigue stems from depression, but I could be wrong. I agree, dealing with MS is enough to cause depression, and it being brought on by the CRAB drugs doesn't surprise me. I'm on Tysabri, and I don't know if depression is a side affect. I'll have to do some research. It seeems when I get my infusion I'm home and sleeping for about 36 hours after my infusion. It makes me awfully tired. Thanks for your input here Lynn.

Isaboo - I agree with you 100%. I think if I wasn't so tired all the time I could deal with the rest that comes along with MS. Thanks for your reply, it's nice to know I'm not alone.

gretchen916, I never sleep the whole night through. I don't ever go into REM or deep sleep mode because I sleep 2-4 hours and them am awake (like a sleep walker though) for a couple of hours until I go back to sleep. My nights are totally screwed up too. Thank goodness I work from home or else I would be putting in for retirement disability. After I clean myself up I'm the most tired. I just wnat to lay down and sleep I'm so exhausted. Just brushing out the tangles from my hair is exhausting, I can't imagine drying and styling it too. At least I can pull it back in a poneytail while at home and slip into some sweat pants and a t-shirt. If I had to put on a suit or dress everyday and all that goes with it I would cry for sure. It doesn't sound like you have much support at home? Having to come home from work and cook for a family is also mind-blowing. I can't image. We do carry-out about 3 nights a week, and the rest of the time someone else will cook or eveybody fends for themselves. Last week I made home-made fajitas. I do it all from scratch. It took me about 4 hours to make, and by the end, I was totally exhausted. The next day all I could do was lay on the couch I was so wiped out. Then, another day I went to the mall for about an hour. Same thing happened to me, I couldn't move the next day I was so fatigued. For me this problem is getting worse of MS. And, no you are not alone.

I did a 24hr adrenal function test. My cortisol levels showed to be low in the mornings which results in fatigue. My hollistic doctor put me on Adrenal support and Ive noticed that my fatigue levels have improved. I never thought about these levels before but he did. Maybe give it a try??

I think MS is a vicious cycle operating with a faulty and sagging message system. We are depressed because we are wiped out, we are wiped out, at least in part, because we are depressed.

I actually tell people that I am feeling pretty good. Well, I moved, alone with the cats, into a large studio apartment because it is all I can handle, I live within real walking distance of most everything I need, and one block from buses and trains.

I was depressed alot of the time from the sexual tension in my home. So I moved...the bf has chosen to stick with me, but it is easier for me to deal with this way...I might never sleep if I was too worried about peeing the bed. This way, I feel like he makes the choice to be here and knows the deal.

I have made this a place I like to live and it easy for me to manage, and I deal with what I can do and no more. Selfish, maybe, but I also feel like after 13 years of being together with certain routines and plans, the changes, me not working, my limited "desires," my various issues, I have to work out the best way to deal with them on my own. If I am not always comfortable with what I deal with, how can I ask anyone else to be? I am lucky, he is a real good guy with alot of patience, and doesn't mind that I have a list of things I need done the minute he walks in the door. But it is really sad for me sometimes.

I get up every day and do not go to work. So no matter what, it is there to remind me every day. Starting in Dec, I am taking two online classes...I wanted to try a classroom, you know, meet people, have contact wit the outside world, but expense and travel made it not work. But at least I will have a reason to get going every day.

Even at the worst before I stopped working, I always managed to show up, so I am looking for reasons to have to "show up" somewhere, if that makes sense.

I think it is a combo of it all, and I think there are physical reasons included in that. I don't have an answer, I do yoga, sometimes on the side of the bed, I try to get out in the fresh air every day, not on a schedule or to go to the store, just to breath, I make myself shower and get dressed, even if I lay back down...I am trying to find a new routine, a new direction, and I am hoping that ths will help me to get up and get going.

The change in diet helped alot, Melatonin helps for a while to sleep, got to use and then stop for a while, I think the supplements and vitamins I am using right now are a good balance.

I hope that you find some things to help, I know that place you are in and I fight not to be there, so I am sending out lots of good thoughts.

There is never a day that I don't feel exhausted. Sleep never comes for more than three hours. Grooming and Cooking wipe me out.

I truly think personally, and most of you will probably think I'm bat-crap crazy, but for me I think most of my ms "symptoms" work in the opposite direction. For example, fatigue. I'm an insomniac, mainly. I can stay up well past 24hrs and not even blink. I'm serious, I've had 36-48hr stints and felt like I just woke up. It's like I catch my 4th or 5th wind. I once even tried to give up sleeping altogether, to replace it with more life. I thought, "If I sleep 1/3 of my life away per day and gave it up, I would be awake hence alive 1/3 longer!" Didn't work, only made it 3 days...

Another example (and this is confirmed by multiple nueros), I have over-active reflexes. Both physiological and mundane "catch something" reflexes. Or everyone seems to ask me to read fine print, or see something at a far distance, even though I was the one who went completely blind in each eye. Even things like being overly balanced. It's hard to describe. If there is a bell curve of such things, I think I may be on the other side of the norm. Of course I'm fully aware that everything is potentially subject to change, and I've had it 9+ years so I hope it's not about that time....I think I can only attribute it to being extremely aware of my body at all times. That and mental gymnastics. I know there may be things I cannot control in the future, but as of now; if I feel even the slightest inkling of a "symptom": tingling, headache, annoyance etc., I somehow "will" it away. Literally. I don't call it something cheesy like "positive thinking". I literally beat it into submission and make it disappear. It's extremely hard to describe, And I don't truly understand it myself, nor do I question it. Maybe I'm part buddhist monk or something. Or Maybe I'm just a big dummy....

HEY, and since we're handing out "nikki-names", could I be...uh...I dunno..uh.."Figgy"? How about "Fig Newton"? "Grr-it-out"?, I DO like to argue hehe. Meh, that's kinda cheeseball, you can't give yourself a nickname, its gotta come to you....

And hey btw, why would you wanna "Tear a bunny's ears"? Seems kinda mean...."I say Boo" to that....and I do play guitar, so I guess a could rock a "Gretch in 9/16ths" but that's a strange timing.....But I guess I got the "Chops" to play it....and who wouldn't wanna "Marry Lyn"...unless her name is spelled "Backwards-sdrawkcab" of course....oh and "Chi-Gal" quit bein so timid already...And then "Jedi Jodi" used her mind tricks to convince everyone named lynn on the forum to respond....and let's all never forget that all "Mimes are BS"...but in this instance, I can learn from mimes, I should have been silent along time ago. I'm so Punderful that it's "Crazy"...But then I think "Nah, can't Lie" about it, I love being corny... It's all just a "Figment" of my idiot imagination. I guess it's just my "DailyStrange"

Jen, your 24hr adrenal function test was a smart thing to do. I had no knowledge of this so I research it on the internet after your suggestion. I wonder if my cortisol levels would show to be low also. I will definately mention this to my doctor when I see him later this month as the fatigue is horrible and I just feel like I'm simply "existing." The past couple of days I have pushed, really pushed myself to get up, shower, and get dressed even though I'm not going anywhere. It feels good, but I still lay down and nap. This just can't be normal MS I'm thinking...Could it be from the Tysabri? I usually sleep about 36 hours after my infusion and then remain tired throughout the month?

hi i havent gotton that far yet i slepp through the night and i dont need a nap i do go to bed at 9 pm every day and just no lay down in the room and watch tv till i do go to bed i stop drinking at 6pm so i dont need to go to the bathroom its been working so far. i eat healty and i do exercise at least 30 min a day thats 20 min on the bike 5 min weight lifting i do 10 sit ups on the ball i bounce on the ball for my back walk the dog 10 to 20 mins 2 to 3 times a day i thank god i can still walk. get up and down the stairs just thats what i do for work. i make it my job to do this since i got ms . ms is my job. i take avonex no side effects yet its been 8 shots so far. god has a plan for us and ust go with it. i hope every one good health and we can do this. love ya all april

Nikki, I wrote you a personal message on your post, but you know that I thank you for your great advice.

marilyn, you sound like you are in the same place as me. I'm sorry that anyone has to feel this tired. How do you get around your symptoms?

"figgy" - what do you have kryptonite or something?!? hahaha! I'm glad you are on the other side of the curve! Wow, that's incredible, and so unusual I thought for MS patients? But, I think maybe one must start with positive thinking in dealing with fatigue or it can consume your life and become depression too like nikki suggests. I also think that maybe you power talk yourself some and maybe don't realize it? Maybe that is part of the reason you are on that bell curve? Life is not just existing, it is looking forward to the present of today. Thank you too for your thought-provoking post!