Using such language about your mother is really unfortunate to read...

Although, I do understand where you're coming from. No, we do not have that much control whether or not we sleep - if only we did! Sure everyone has problems, she's correct in that, but to walk off and expect anyone to deal with issues such as insomnia is maddening. It's funny how people without insomnia can say things such as that.. If only it were that easy.

Hey, you know what helps me is having a little water fountain in the room where I sleep. The trickling water sound is really soothing, for me, at least. I've heard that calcium is supposed to help. maybe you could take some calcium before you decide you want to go to sleep. laughter helps, too. Do you work out? Working out can make you tired, and help you go to sleep. Hope things get better for you. Try and let go of some of the anger. It's bad for everyone. Trust me, I know. Good luck!

Enchant-I 100% agree. I was just so angry at the time. After yet another poor night of sleep feeling the usual tiredness she seriously flipped out and made herself pissed and then I overheard her talking to my sister about the just manning up thing and I got so angry. I've been extremely emotionally unstable the last month or so and I honestly believe it's a symptom of the lack of sleep. After that happened in the morning, I literally didn't do anything I planned on like working out because I was a combination of so angry and feeling so depressed at the same time. The whole day we didn't acknowledge when either one of us was in the same room and finally we talked a little bit about it very late at night. It's totally unrefreshing but I'm usually at least lightly sleeping at night but I'd be surprised if I even fell asleep lightly tonight..its about 3 a.m. and I'm wide awake and I'm positive my previous emotional state today caused this total insomnia tonight.

Also to elaborate on the problems thing....Insomniacs have the billion other "problems" everyone else has in addition to the dreadful insomnia. What gets me even madder is how she always keeps telling me how lots of other people sleep bad or get hardly any sleep seem to be able to get through with their lives. Well for 1 thing, those people take caffeine(I don't which is one of the frustrating parts of my insomnia because I don't use anything to perk me up),2- Those people are so tired their entire effort is on their job(so they don't workout, rarely do things with others, and probably sleep or lay down pretty much every non working moment they can), 3- They Live an unhealthy and short life(I really feel like part of the obesity epidemic is directly tied to sleep. Because of the fatigue people feel, they just focus on work and don't feel like they have any energy left to exercise or even think about eating healthy or do much else), and 4- They are overall unhappy(Even if they do stuff besides work, they're constantly reminded of how they feel and rather than enjoying life, it feels like they're trying to survive it; even when things aren't going horrible like my day today, it just feels like you're barely making it by). So yeah she's right, they deal with it but of course with serious consequences ranging from serious poor mental and physical health to overall happiness and enjoyment of life.

Lightbright-the water fountain might work for most people but not me. I hate almost every sound when sleeping(I'm pretty sure I have abnormally exceptional hearing like a hawk). Additionally, water noises wake up me up more because they make me think of a stream that I fish all the time. Water noises don't make me relax, they make me want to go fishing and/or explore instead lol. I do however "legally" download videos from youtube of various sounds/meditation music onto my ipod and listen to it on a stereo thing. Typically they make me very relaxed and stress free but don't help actually "sleep".

By taking calcium are you talking about calcium pills or would regular milk or yogurt do? I've heard if you microwave milk so it's warm, it helps sleep. In the past I used to have hot non caffeine tea to try to sleep-Can't remember how successful it was or wasn't.

Exercising-That I do my friend. That's part of the most frustrating things about my insomnia. Not only is it difficult to work out(I'm pretty elite for conditioning, not just your average gym goer) as hard as I do every day on lack of sleep but it's also creating self doubt on my career choice. Lately the thing I love doing is the thing I hate because I have horrible head aches and overall fatigue. For my career, I actually want to be a personal trainer(Overall I want to go into physical therapy but a Personal trainer is a stop along the way to get the degree for that and I'll need more money to even do that anyways) and I see me having trouble with this job simply because of sleep. I struggle getting up at 8 a.m and going to bed at midnight...I don't even want to think about having to go to bed early and getting up early as heck for clients that want to! So yeah, insomnia creates serious self doubt about my career choice. I constantly wonder what I'll do when that time comes and wonder if I'll have to work my life around how I sleep(Basically working a graveyard shift).

Hi there,
First, I just want to say that I understand 100% your frustration and anger. Severe insomnia is torture. I have it badly but try not to show my anger about it to my family because it only hurts them as well as myself . It doesn't help the problem to let the bitterness take over -it only hurts you. Your mom's reaction was not very nice and I do wish she had more compassion and understanding for what you are going through. Most of our loved ones just don't know to deal with it because they have no answer. And if they tend to be angry people themselves, then it is an unhealthy way of dealing with complex problems.
I've had insomnia since my early 20's. I am going to be 46 and I have been through extremely bad periods and then some good periods. I want you to know that I finally had my insomnia in a good place 3 years ago. Then out of the blue, I started having some sort of strange spasms that would wake me anytime I would drift off into a deep sleep. I can't breath when it happens and then I wake up. This problem has destroyed my confidence that took me years to gain. I've been to many doctors, had a sleep study, and have tried many medications all with failed results so I really have been living in complete misery for these past 3 years with the last three 3 months being extremely severe. But overall, if it wasn't for the strange spasm, I would be doing OK with my insomnia. It took a long time to get there but it can be done. What helped me to get to that place was making the decision to go on with living no matter how tired, not caring if I didn't sleep (even if I felt like death), and constantly telling myself that the body would sleep eventually and it always did. Sometimes it took a very long time for it to sleep but even just one good night was enough to start building that confidence to stay, hey, I CAN sleep. Any "What if's" that came to mind I tried to dismiss. And another key was to make plans on the calendar and keep all of it no matter what. I wasn't going to let it win. I went no to whatever event no matter how I looked or felt. Yes, this is a miserable existence but even after all these years, I'm still healthy, not overweight and still exercise just like you do. My BP and heart are all fine despite the lack of sleep all of these years. I often think I might have a heart attack while working out after so long without deep sleep but thank the good Lord, that has not happened.
I try to stay away from all the articles about what lack of sleep does. I have a friend in England whose mother had severe insomnia and lived into her 90's. I think when it is your time to go, it is your time to go. You could be the healthiest person on earth and still get a disease.
So I think in your case you have to believe you can get better. I am a person who never thought the problem would improve but it did. It took a long time. I pretty much had no deep sleep during my entire 1st pregnancy, including the birth and thereafter. In fact the nurse said during my delivery that I looked exhausted and after giving birth, I still DID NOT SLEEP for a long time after. I don't know about you but I really hate when people point out how tired I look! And through my second pregnancy, I also had very little sleep. Amazingly, my babies turned out very healthy and I remained healthy as well. I admit to being concerned these days because my problem is very severe with no relief in sight yet but what else is one to do except go on? If I were to die right now because of this problem, I would rather be trying to get the most out of it despite how horrific I feel. It is true we are just trying to make it through a day but at least we have some good memories, we can still get out of bed, see hear, etc. even if it is in a fog like state. I don't know what the answer is honestly but if I were you, I would continue to do what you are doing in regards to eating right, exercise and good sleep hygiene, and keep telling yourself that the body will sleep when it is ready even if you don't believe it. You aren't alone! Good luck and hugs to you.

Hi Slayer,

Sorry you are going through such a period of discouragement. Try not to be too angry with your family/Mom. They - like almost everyone that has not suffered with this - do not have a clue. They have no reference. It is why forums like this are important - even if we can not quickly provide solutions for each other, we can completely and sincerely empathize.

Don't be discourage about your career choice - that is just fatigue and despair talking. You will feel rested again and things will seem
better,

What always helped me when going through the most difficult periods was to research something new and give it a try - although I was reluctant to take any large dosages of pill/supplements.

You are an athlete. Sounds crazy, but you may want to try swimming laps for your work out, if that is an option for you. Most exercise creates an "after burn" - swimming, very factually, does not. An avid jogger, I have had to start swimming lately because of a bad hip. I find swimming fatigues me in a way that really lends itself to sleep; its different for me. When I ran, I felt "better" but not sleepier, I could jog a half marathon on absolutely no sleep and still not crash with a nap. It was maddening.( Also getting a bunch of trite advice is annoying too - - so feel free to ignore this ;-) . )

You take care, I hope you are better rested soon.

Frogturtle - welcome to this group. I really appreciated your comments. I recently joined to. I am 5 years older than you - sounds like our histories are similar.

Best wishes all.

Thanks for sharing your experience Frogturtle, I'll tell you a little about mine. I'm turning 20 on March 8 and I've had insomnia the last 4 or 5 years. Up until 14 or 15 I was a good sleeper(or at least I don't remember being a bad one). Then while on summer vacation from high school, I flat out couldn't sleep. I live in UT and although it isn't the hottest of places, Summers often reach temperatures of around 100 degrees and even air conditioning doesn't keep the house cold. I just felt so unconfortable because of the heat and couldn't sleep untill it was very late which of course caused me to get up late. Well typically my insomnia goes away by fall, when the temperatures stop dropping. During the school year I had trouble going to bed at the traditional 9 or 10 p.m required to get 8 or 9 hours of sleep as a high school student but I was able to always fall asleep around 10:30 or 11. But I was usually tired and would sleep in class far more frequently than normal kids. Still, when comparing sleep from back then to now, it was far better then. This year has been pure hell because my sleep hasn't even kind of corrected itself like it always did during non summer months.

I've literally experienced every form of insomnia: Not sleeping at all, only light sleeping, frequent waking up, deep sleep initially followed by light sleep, and light sleep ending with deep sleep. The scariest part is that I can sleep good 3 or 4 nights in a row but then do horrible for over a week before even 1 good day of sleep. The worst part about this insomnia is the self doubt that's being created. I'm going to school to major in exercise and sports science specifically trying to become a personal trainer and it deeply scares me having to get up when clients want to work out, in addition to the billions of other responsibilities I'll have that I don't right now. Right now I got it easy, I'm not working, I'm living rent free,etc. Literally my only stressor is school. It scares me seeing what kind of mental state I'll be in when I have to worry about paying all my bills and things I don't have to do right now if I continue to sleep like I do now.

My health is well indicated by blood pressure, cholesterol, glucose, and triglycerides tests. Since I'm going to be an ESS major, I got those tested as well as fitness tests. I did well in all of them but I don't feel how those tests say I should. I have to rev myself to even get me to workout somewhat effectively. It doesn't help that I'm really hard on myself and never try to stay the same, I always am trying to improve. I get really down when I don't accomplish my goals, particularly exercise related ones. Sleep is just interfering with my whole life and currently it is winning the battle! I need to figure out how to beat it!

Thanks for the comment IrishItalian as well. Speaking of an athlete, I'm mostly into basketball. Unfortunately for me my highschool, college, and slim NBA chances were stripped. I also have a horrible back condition called scoliosis which went bad around when I started having trouble sleeping. Short version of story: No one could figure out what was wrong with me and I was in to much pain to play so I couldn't even try out for my high school team. Once I figured out what was wrong, I managed it by exercising. Anyway, I have severe scoliosis and doctors telling me I need surgery and I can't do physical activity but I proved them wrong. Maybe that's why I want to be a personal trainer: I have what should cause chronic pain but get better every years.

Most of the exercise I do is basketball drills like sprints,dribbling, shooting drills, games in leagues, Lifting weights, etc. So most of what I do is anaerobic meaning extremely intense when you actually do it. This type of workout coupled by with the fact the I try to always get better(I.E. lift more weight when bench pressing, running faster sprint times, etc) makes it extremely hard psychologically to convince yourself to go that hard. Believe it or not I don't have much plain running or swimming experience. Soon my basketball league is over and I'll maybe have to try out either of those.

Thanks for sharing your story slayerenraged. You are so young and it pains me to see you are struggling with this. My problems started in my early 20's after I read an article in Shape magazine about how harmful lack of sleep was. That was all it took to set my mind off to the worst anxiety cycle about sleep. I didn't sleep for 5 days. I was seeing a psychiatrist at the time who helped me out of it but it did not last and began to creep up on me particularly when I changed career fields. The more visible responsibility I took on the worse my sleep problems became. I worried about being able to cope or perform the next day if I didn't sleep. Well, the result was that most of the time I did not sleep but I was still able to do the job. I would get so angry at myself for thinking myself into it only to find that what went on at work was no big deal. Insomnia is a difficult problem no doubt. Have you thought about some therapy to help? Sometimes having someone to talk to who has experience in counseling for insomnia can be helpful for support. There may be nothing new to learn but maybe just having a person to go to for help with your fears may be worth it. I wanted to say that it Is good that you get some good sleep even if short term. Keep that in mind when things are bad.

Hello IrishItalian, thank you for your welcome. I have been reading here a long time but never joined until now. I like your idea to try swimming. Have you ever found medication or supplements helpful? I know the medication route isn't ideal.

So sorry! I am a chronic insomniac and sleep between 2-4 hours a night and I have seen every type of doctor known to mankind. You are SOO right. People who have never lived it, just don't get it. Life without sleep is not living!!! It is even worse when you see yourself, purple rings under your eyes, bags under eyes and just the look of misery, and people tell you how you've aged, but they still act like sleep deprivation isn't a big deal. Hello, if I look this bad, imagine how I feel!!

Hang in there!

Good discussion.

Slayer - yes I am too sad that you are young and dealing with this. Sounds like the struggle with scoliosis is also a precipitous contributing factor. Once you experience the frustration/anxiety of not sleeping, it can feed on itself. Easier said than done, and if insurance allows, do continue to seek out a physician or therapist until you find someone you like and trust. You can and will sleep - your are just "off track" right now.

TurtleFrog - you give great advice. I still rely on ambien. I have had success with this for several years after decades of torturous insomnia with no need to increase dosage or sign of tolerance. Ambien has its issues - I know - and for many is totally taboo. But for me it a god send. The first few years ambien was the difference between "some" sleep and none at all. These past few years I feel well rested most days - which is unbelievable to me.

And BTW Slayer, I an not suggesting you are like me. I had trouble off and on sleeping when I was a child and in my teens my doctor finally prescribed phenobarbital to help me. College went okay and then things got really bad, I could write a book on the myriad "professionals" I have seen. And eventually, I will post my explanation for why I believe my specific gene mutations are to blame as a separate thread.

Some things I believe now:
- most artificial sweeteners can throw off your normal brain chemistry and encourage production of adrenaline.
- most "flavorings" of any sort are likely to be stimulating neurons other than just your taste buds.
- prayer changes things
- my body can not effectively break down adrenaline or estrogen.

Best wishes. Thanks for this thread.

hi, i have insomnia on some nights as well. have you tried home remedies / holistic treatments? there is various medicines to take such as melatonin, valerian root, as well as antihistamines like cyproheptadine which can be effective. But another thing to consider is working on the root of the problem and trying to find out why you can't sleep, for example if you can't stop thinking try to meditate and this will calm you down. avoid stimulating things for at least an hour before sleeping as well. I'm sure if you do all these things you will start to have healthier sleeping habits.

Hang in there Slayer, i totally get it, i'm struggling with insomnia as well, i've had it for about 5-6 years off and on, recently i've had over 2 years with no problems until about a month ago, now i haven't slept a full nights sleep (7 hrs) in a month. I've gone 5 days with zero sleep, finally crashing for 5-6 hrs on the 6th (def. not enough) My husband can sleep blissfully through the night and fall back asleep if i wake him, same with my whole family, its so frustrating. All we want is sleep.
(frogturtle) I loved what you had to say, i'm trying myself to be positive, i keep telling myself i've gotten through this before i can do it again, i also was trying to get pregnant before this happened, i love to hear how you had healthy babies even though you weren't sleeping much, gives me hope! thanks for sharing...
My problem is mostly anxiety from not sleeping, i get super anxious when i go to bed even if i'm super tired this keeps me up, i've tried meditation, relaxation breathing but it doesn't seem to work, but i do give up on it if it doesn't work right away so i think i just need to keep on trying, lesson to learn. I'm also very sensitive to any sleep meds, they just don't work for me, (i wish they did) i take two ambien and i just lay there, so frustrating, same with the other ones. Tried xanax which relieves my anxiety temporarily but doesn't help me sleep, plus i feel way worse taking any of these in the morning, more groggy, can't think, depressed. I wish they would take insomnia much more seriously (doctors) they seem to not know much about it (unless you go to specialist) and quickly dismiss it. When its very serious. Good luck its nice knowing theres other people out there with the same problems thou!!!

Thank you Irishitalian. I may resort to a medication just to try and get some sleep everyday. I go much longer without than many people report here. I'm not saying my problem is more severe than others by no means but I do go very long periods without deep sleep. I'm very hopeful for something new to come out that do not affect things of the the brain like cognition or memory.

c1yde - Thank you for the suggestions. I have tried some of what you suggest but they don't always work and I usually feel bad the next day after taking them. The dreams from Melatonin make me feel like my brain is working overtime! I have tried therapy, sleep restriction and all of the sleep hygiene suggestions but for some reason the brain just will not get sleepy when it needs to be. I find meditation very difficult when I'm exhausted. It is almost painful because it requires trying to stay on one thought or imagery and it actually gives me more of a headache on top of the one I already have from sleep deprivation.

angels7113 - it sounds like we have very similar personalities. I have tried many things too but as my husband always says, "you are never consistent!" We want immediate relief (and who wouldn't!) and if we have a bad night or it doesn't get better right away while trying something new we automatically think we aren't getting anywhere. My husband also reminds me that it has been over 20 years of being like this so fixing it will take time. I really have been sticking with the going to bed and getting up at the same time hoping it will eventually kick in and help me. I'm very adverse to taking medication for this problem and trying to hang on because when I do try medication, I may get "sleep" but I never feel normal. Not that not sleeping feels normal, but I at least feel more with it in my mind. When I took Seroquel last week, I felt like a zombie. I like Xanax because it really does relax me and seem to help me drift off but I still don't feel completely rested and I don't want to get in the habit of taking that one everyday. In order for Ambien to put me out, I have to take more than 5mg and the one time I took 10mg, I slept 4 hours on it. Lunesta did nothing for me. Trazadone made me feel like Seroqeul did. But maybe I may need to keep trying something like Seroquel to see if my body gets used it just to get consistent sleep. Like all of us, I really want to sleep without an aid!!!! As far as babies, I was afraid to go ahead because of my problem with insomnia but my husband said you can't live your life around this insomnia. He was right. I'm so happy I had them because it really is a huge blessing and I'm so thankful. They are now 15 and 12! It was tough and I admit to having sleep issues through it BUT I did get through and everything was just fine. In some ways it was nice to be preoccupied with the pregnancy than always thinking about sleep.

Best of luck everyone! SlayerEnraged, I really hope things get better soon. You are going to be OK!

I don't have time to read/respond to all the new comments at this second but thanks for everyone posting. Trying not to get grumpy but I feel that way today. On Monday night I had very brief deep sleep although I didn't fall asleep good until realistically around 4 or 5 a.m. It was lame too cause I don't even know if I got much either...I had a dream which literally told me me to wake up :(. So it made me wake up 40 minutes earlier than I was supposed to. Then last night was really crappy with no deep sleep. It's very frustrating...sometimes now I feel stressed just about typical next days and not even special events like the day before a test or presentation.

Additionally I think something is wrong with my body temperature. Often times when I initially try to go to bed I feel to hot to wear a shirt! It's in the recommended temperature for sleeping inside our house right now and although I've only been sick once this year, I think for what ever reason I'm having feverish feelings before bed time. Eventually I wake up really late/early morning and am freezing. Sometimes I won't wake up from it and it until my alarm. But I think that feeling of cold is preventing me from deep sleep.

I'm also getting fed up with this last week and this one. Lots of plans for regular life and things specifically for sleep that I've wanted to try have gotten ruined and not done because of excessive amounts of appointments for school this week and then things like waiting for about 2 or 3 hours at an instacare to get treated keep happening. Just getting so tired and frustrated with this.

I suspect i have but haven't been officially diagnosed with delayed sleep phase syndrome. I've had insomnia a long time but I used to not be as disciplined with the bed time/wake up time. I would almost always have success on crazy hours of sleeping like 3 a.m till noonish. Soon I have spring break for a week and I'm going to try sleep restriction along with light exposure therapy during it. I understand the principles of sleep restriction therapy BUT I don't know what I should set my sleep restriction time to.

I'm thinking either 12 p.m to 6 A.M or 2 A.M to 8 A.M. I have a feeling I'll have trouble with it but ultimately I'm thinking the midnight to 6 one because I think it'll be easier to add sleep time by letting me sleep in later rather that going to bed earlier. What do you guys think I should set as the initial sleep restriction time?

The sad this is I'll only have basically a month before my schedule will completely change again and I'll probably have to wake up even earlier(that'll be fun...). But still I think falling asleep earlier is the key and even if I have to get up earlier for a job or internship then it should only reinforce falling asleep earlier/waking up early.