Infidelity Support Group
Any relationship in which one partner engages willfully in sexual relations with another outside of the partnership is considered to have experienced infidelity. This breach of trust is often traumatizing for the faithful partner as well as the relationship, and support is often needed to heal emotionally and to decide whether or not the relationship should continue after...
My husband has been home for four weeks since we decided to give our marriage a chance. We loved apart for six months after his affair of a year.
He is unemployed, a disabled veteran and extremely depressed. All of that on top of a rocky marriage is not making me feel good about things.
He tells me he doesn't love me like he used to, that he loves me like a best friend, that he would be better off on his own, etc. There are days where we make progress and other days where I am confused about where I stand with him. He tells me to have no expectations so I assume he means no intimacy so I treat him as I do a friend and that only seems to send us backwards. I fear rejection if I treat him as more than a friend and I also don't want him to feel disrespected.
He has not contacted the OW himself and will go days or a little over a week without talking to her and then she calls. She will drunk call him or call him to just tell him about the dates she is going on and then ask about how his wonderful marriage is going. He insists he only wants a friendship but every time she calls it sets us back. He starts to have mixed feelings again about the marriage and seems to conjure up his feelings for her. He says he can't turn that off even though he has tried. He says they agreed not to talk and then she calls and for hours he tears apart everything she says and then states he should call her to tell her not to call anymore.
He says talking to me about what he is going through is a trap because I just turn or around and get angry at him by saying go to Colorado to be with her and so on. He says I brow beat him and treat him badly and he doesn't think we should be together. I only seem to do that when his past starts becoming his present.
We haven't talked to anyone and he feels that his war injuries have left him as a man who can never love anyone or who is unable to form or maintain emotional connections because of his brain injury.
We will decide to divorce and then he starts pouring his heart out to me about how miserable he is and unhappy and although I feel he means with me he means with life. We will decide that we will work on it but then she calls and it's back to the same cycle.
I don't really have anywhere to go and we've already spent six months apart but I think I need to leave for some time. Not that I care but is it wrong to leave the house? Am I turning my back on recovery by not being there for him as he experiences these feelings for her resurface?
He assures me he doesn't want a relationship with her as he knows she is not good for him but it seems he is still pining after her and it hurts me because I feel he has more of a romantic love for her and not for me.
I just don't know what to do anymore.
He is unemployed, a disabled veteran and extremely depressed. All of that on top of a rocky marriage is not making me feel good about things.
He tells me he doesn't love me like he used to, that he loves me like a best friend, that he would be better off on his own, etc. There are days where we make progress and other days where I am confused about where I stand with him. He tells me to have no expectations so I assume he means no intimacy so I treat him as I do a friend and that only seems to send us backwards. I fear rejection if I treat him as more than a friend and I also don't want him to feel disrespected.
He has not contacted the OW himself and will go days or a little over a week without talking to her and then she calls. She will drunk call him or call him to just tell him about the dates she is going on and then ask about how his wonderful marriage is going. He insists he only wants a friendship but every time she calls it sets us back. He starts to have mixed feelings again about the marriage and seems to conjure up his feelings for her. He says he can't turn that off even though he has tried. He says they agreed not to talk and then she calls and for hours he tears apart everything she says and then states he should call her to tell her not to call anymore.
He says talking to me about what he is going through is a trap because I just turn or around and get angry at him by saying go to Colorado to be with her and so on. He says I brow beat him and treat him badly and he doesn't think we should be together. I only seem to do that when his past starts becoming his present.
We haven't talked to anyone and he feels that his war injuries have left him as a man who can never love anyone or who is unable to form or maintain emotional connections because of his brain injury.
We will decide to divorce and then he starts pouring his heart out to me about how miserable he is and unhappy and although I feel he means with me he means with life. We will decide that we will work on it but then she calls and it's back to the same cycle.
I don't really have anywhere to go and we've already spent six months apart but I think I need to leave for some time. Not that I care but is it wrong to leave the house? Am I turning my back on recovery by not being there for him as he experiences these feelings for her resurface?
He assures me he doesn't want a relationship with her as he knows she is not good for him but it seems he is still pining after her and it hurts me because I feel he has more of a romantic love for her and not for me.
I just don't know what to do anymore.
If he's not willing to read, maybe a trip to Retoville (sp?) I've heard can do wonders.
He can "fall out of love" with her, but he will need to work at it. Maintaining no contact, not only in communication, but mementos, and not dwelling on thoughts about her. Also, rekindling his love for you. In about a year, if he does that diligently, he can be over her.
You have needs to. And if you want to stay with him, you both must talk about your needs as well as his. He has to make progress in helping YOU. It's not all about him.
Counseling would help you both. And the suggestions of those books from Cole are good as well. My husband and I read After the Affair together, and discussed each chapter as we went along.
There has to be NO CONTACT with the other woman. Period.
It would be best if HE told her that. But do what you must. Block her number if you can. Hang up on her. Tell her you are both
working on your marriage and there is NO ROOM for her!! And if you end up doing that, tell HIM you are. It's all about both of you being open with one another. And turning to each other and not a third person.
If all that does not work, then maybe it's time to part company, move on with your own life. This is no way for you to live. You deserve more.
Good luck to you.
I don't know what kind of injuries your husband has, they do seem a bit convenient to me though. Imagine a disability that justifies having affairs, hmnnnnnn.....
Regarding that, if he thinks there's a problem there then you need some professional help including medical and psychological workups. If he's not willing to do that, then I think the issue is more convenience.
Only you can decide if you want to live like this. You see it for what it is and it's not changing. If you don't want to keep doing this cycle, then you must get yourself out of that cycle. Leave and tell him the price of attempting reconciliation is no contact ever, period.
Rebuilding takes work. It doesn't happen by osmosis. He needs to gather the tools, i.e. counseling, books, etc... and then start doing the work. He, and the two of you, need a support system because you don't build a house all by yourself. I have my H, my counselor, my priest, and some friends who know and are supportive. I don't wear out my friends, but they are there for me when I need them. Of course, this place is great support, but it is only one part of the team it takes to rebuild.
Getting over the OP is a very very gradual process, like watching paint fade in the sun. Like Cole said, it can be sped up by working at it from within ones own thoughts and aside from that time and NC......absolute positive NC. My OM called me after 20 mos of NC and it set everyone back. It is a killer. His cell was blocked but he called from a land line. I went back to counseling to work on myself some more and hash out why I talked to him when he called and why it affected me as it did. I am prepared if it happens again to do the right thing. I know what to say and the counseling is doing me a world of good.
Don't worry about his feelings for her too much as long as he is maintaining NC and WORKING on himself and the M. THAT is where the problem lies. The feelings will fade if he will put his mental efforts in the right place. I believe that if he does the right things the depression will get better, but if it is a clinical depression, then getting medical help with that may help turn things around as well.
He is lucky to have you because any work he does on himself and the M will be more effective for him than for some. I have had that same privilege with my H.
I've said it before but I think it bears repeating: it's easier to kick cocaine, because coke doesn't care if you want it or not. It never calls in the middle of the night wanting to be wanted.
I wish that I could talk to your husband. I know that the impression of CA is that we are mostly active cake eaters, but we do have a core of people wanting to and working at getting well. If you would be comfortable with it, I hope that you would invite him to join us.
In addition, you might benefit from a book I've been reading, I Don't Want To Talk About It, regarding male depression. We deal with it openly, where men tend to see it as yet another point of weakness and shame, and bury the depression under drugs, work, affairs, anything that allows them to avoid the pain.
I know it's not up to you to fix him, you've got to be overloaded as it is, but the book might help to put some of this in perspective for you. http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0684835398
love is where the desire to have
meets the desire to give
we want our lover, their touch, their intimacy, companionship
and we want them to be well, healthy, happy, to have a good life
its NOT hearing their goals and decisions and then sabotaging them in order to have what we want
its too bad your marriage and a guy whos already sacrificed so much for his country, is allowing someone who doesnt know the selfless quality of love, to sabotage his life at home
She calls him because shes a dependant mess whos shallow.
Question - have you ever had another boyfriend besides your H (dated before)? did you ever think about them? - where they are in their life etc while you were with your H? A thought pop in your head?
Well, his thinking about her is sort of like that - however him saying he can't love you and you guys are friends - thats F'd up. He's clueless then. You married a clueless idiot.
He loves you like a bestfriend?? - Ok and it's been 6 months.
Do you love him? what do you want out of this? to get back to the way it was?
He has created a F up situation that is sick and not healthy.
How strong can you be? can you be strong enough to let him go? ---forever?
He may wake up but after 6 months - hes a slow turtle.
She mentioned that the CS does a lot of that work, and while I agree that was true initially for my husband and I, I've had the bigger load of work to carry more recently because a lot of the bad habits in our marriage are mine, not his. That isn't to excuse his affair, just saying that work takes place for both people.
My advice? Make the work as "fun" as possible. Of course he doesn't love you like he used to. You're not the same people. You also are both healing from wounds - physical and emotional. That's going to change dynamics big time.
When I was 18 I went on a date with a guy who was, oh, 21 or 22? He'd just come out of a live-in relationship and I asked him, "What's the most romantic thing you ever did for your ex-gf?" He thought about it for awhile, then in confusion said, "I don't know? It's hard to be romantic when you wash each other's underwear."
And that's my point.. it IS hard. When you're just dating, you can sort of make a point of never letting your guy see you "without your face on". When you're dating, you can make sure you only take your girl out when you can REALLY take her out. It's not sustainable, though, not in a marriage.
There are times you're going to be sick and have snot dripping out of your nose and if you're living together, your husband is going to see it. There are times you're going to want to spend time out with your wife, but the most you can afford is the drive through at McDonald's. You'll see each other's messes and you'll hear each other fart.
In short? You'll wash each other's underwear.
So being romantic and "sexy" in a marriage takes WORK. It means being mindful of not wearing the grimy shirt you just painted the bathroom in to take your wife to dinner. It means going out of your way to remember to SAY "I love you" and "thank you for all you do" to your husband, instead of feeling entitled to it. The results for being mindful and putting forth the effort can be amazing, though.
You ask if it's wrong for you to want to leave. No. But consider whether you just want Out or if you just want a break. If you just want a break, then maybe it's not about leaving, but about approaching the relationship from a totally different angle. As others have said, if what you're doing isn't working, try something else. Whatever you do, don't just sit on the fence and wait for a miracle. Take action to make things better, one way or another.
If you do stay, and TRULY reinvest to recovery here are some recommendations:
1) Put a stop to the contact with the OW NOW. Change the phone number(s), change email addresses, change whatever accounts she has knowledge of, and start fresh. It may be a pain in the neck, but it'll totally be worth it to wash her as much out of your lives as is possible.
2) Set aside ENJOYABLE time with your husband. Make a pact to not talk about money or the affair or health issues or anything negative during that time together. Learn to enjoy each other's company again. This was SO hard for my husband and I, at first, because we'd grown so far apart, but now he's my very favorite person to spend time with. You guys can get to that point, too.
3) What Cole said. For my husband: "His Needs, Her Needs". He wouldn't read it, so I got it for him in audio format. For me? Love Busters. I didn't realize how I was undermining all the GOOD stuff we had with bad habits of my own. ANYthing that you can send to your husband on nurturing you and helping you through your healing will be good - my husband wouldn't have read the book Cole recommended, but he did read this:
http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250
That one forum post is what turned EVERYTHING around for us. It's when he literally went from constantly defending himself to taking responsibility and taking on a role of healer and supporter. It didn't come naturally to him, but his efforts made all the difference to me and proved to me he was really committed to making things work and not just staying out of convenience or guilt or...whatever.
You say you don't know what to do... gosh. I think a lot of us feel that way... especially if we're not doing anything but just sort of waiting. Take action. If it's wrong, you can always change your course, but try moving in a direction and see where it takes you. I hope you find a path you're more satisfied with.
Best wishes for you.
As for what to do, well....maybe you should take some time for yourself. Clear your head....feel what life is like away from him and the drama. If he truely wants to be with you, he wont need you around to keep him in line.
If a person is going to cheat...there is nothing you, or anyone else, that can convince them not to. It's a personal choice to cheat. I could have revenge cheated on my wife several times...but I stayed faithful to this day. If he goes...it's not your fault, remember that.
I guess I am quiet sometimes because its been so long, and although things are better from day 1 of this, they are not really where they should be or where I feel they should be.
Mainly the no contact thing. My husband lives in an altered state of reality where he feels that this other person can be a friend, but I don't feel that way- and we fight about it constantly. Yes, he seems to have stopped contact on his end, even though at first he was very upset- blamed me, as if it were my decision that he stop talking to her- not his own. Ten days went by and no contact, and then she called- to do her check in, and progress went backwards. Now its that way, we get through the work week, and the weekend comes and its anxiety stricken- me knowing she is going to call, him unable to sleep because he knows it too. She always calls during odd hours of the night, so he put his iphone on sleep mode- where only phone calls after 3 times in 2 minutes come through or VIPs, well she must know, because by her 5th call- he is upset. I asked him if he would change his number, he said no- he wants to be there for her as a friend. Again, this bothers me.
I guess I know the answer that everyone will say, although its hard for me to accept- he doesn't love you because he cannot give up the contact with her.
I am calling a marriage counselor I went to last Fall. She specializes in PTSD and military marriages, and I am going to get an appointment for us this week. I feel perhaps if he hears it from an expert that this marriage doesn't have a fighting chance with contact from her- he will realize it. Although I know he is realizing it. As we talk more he does say, its bothersome that she wants him as more than a friend, because he doesn't want that, and its bothersome when she only talks about her dates- as he is happy that she is moving on from him, but at the same time he gets confusing feelings about feeling her move on.
We did end up having a good day yesterday and we did talk a little and he did say he cannot fight with me anymore and he needs me to try to understand what he is going through. I don't want to fight with him either, I don't want to nag or whine or moan over his interactions with another female, but at the same time, if I don't won't he feel like its okay? Although he knows its not okay with me?
This is where the confusion lies in all of this. I know the feelings he is feeling for me and the marriage are normal and increased because of other stressors in his life. I know him having to get over the other woman is normal, but when he says the affair ended last summer, and he still seems to have feelings for her now- I start to question his timeline, the truth, and all of these questions start entering my head, about lining up the truth- I don't know if forgiveness means letting go of those self doubting questions and all that goes along with the affair facts, and just starting fresh- or if I drill him into the ground until he coughs up the truths.
It is hard to know what is fake and what is real anymore.
I think we do need to take a break from beating a dead horse. I think we should only perhaps talk about the affair in counseling sessions, but also be very open with each other about our feelings. I did have a doubting, insecure thought enter my head yesterday when he made a certain statement- and he was very open to discussing it with me to help me get passed it.
I don't have a lot of experience with other relationships, really none. My husband was my first everything. Then he went off to war, twice, got blown up and came back a different man. Perhaps the person I love is still there, buried underneath all that horrible mess, or perhaps he is really gone.
I am not ready to walk away, call me crazy. I do feel though a counseling session together will help me determine if there is hope or not. One counselor I went to offered some test for compatibility or something, but I don't know how I feel about that.
Anyway this is long.. once again... i appreciate all the awesome advice. My husband is not much of a reader, but I think the books on audio is a great idea for when we are in the car or at home. We drive around a lot, and this would be a good thing to talk about and listen to in the car.
Thanks again guys, it means so much. I feel embarrassed sometimes to stay in a marriage, when so other people would have left a long time ago. But I still feel something, I still have hope for us, and perhaps that will change- but so far it hasn't.
BUT...on the flip side, you DO deserve to be happy, with or without him. Sometimes, walking away is the best thing to do.
You cannot rebuilt your marriage if you limited in what you can discuss, not allowed to be angry, and your needs become your nit picking him.
He cannot be her friend. Period. It is totally disrespectful to his marriage. When he had a friendly talk with her he is not honoring his marriage. It is not all about you, but damn if it is not disrespectful to you too.
You don't have to have had many prior relationships to know how your being treated is plain and simple, wrong.
It is not because of his PTSD or injuries either. That is an excuse.
It could, though, be part of his depression.
Don't embrace this whole "friends" versus being in love thing. Don't settle for that. Be patient, but don't settle for that.
Lastly, the contact he is having with her flames the feelings he has lingering and doses the ones he has for you.
:( It made me so sad when you said you thought he didn't love you because he couldn't break contact. That's not AT ALL my take. He developed feelings and attachment to this other woman, but that doesn't mean he just STOPPED loving you. Not at all! Love doesn't work that way, even though we so badly want it to. Fidelity does not equal love. And infidelity does not (necessarily!) equal lack of love.
Here's the thing, just as goingtobeok said: He CAN NOT BE FRIENDS WITH HER. And it has nothing to do with "Well they MIGHT rekindle" or "if he's friends with her that mean he doesn't love you"... nonono. He can't be friends with her because it HURTS you. And it doesn't matter WHY it hurts you, it does.
We should never do anything to hurt our spouses unless our own safety and wellness are on the line. You've let him know it bothers you, and thus, he needs to understand that in maintaining ANY contact with this OW, he's hurting and disrespecting you.
And yeah, it WILL hurt him to break contact with OW. But that's no reflection on how he feels about you - it's a reflection on how he feels about her. He screwed up. He fell in love with two women at once and now he's "stuck". He can't unstick until he fully breaks things off with the OW and commits to doing everything he can to being your partner.
Don't be ashamed of your choices. It's YOUR life and you have to live with the consequences. This is YOUR journey and no one else can take it for you or tell you how to do it. There is absolutely NO timeline on healing from something like this. For some people, six or eight months post DDAY they are better than they ever were before. For others, they are still working and struggling two or three years after the fact. Neither is right or wrong. It's a personal journey.
I believe in hope. I believe that marriages can survive infidelity. Ours was pretty much dead in the water even BEFORE my husband's affair, and now he is my friend, my partner, and my lover. And trust me when I say, I'm not the most apt learner. If we can do it, I believe others can, too. So if you choose to stay, there's NO judgement coming from me!
And if you choose to leave eventually - still no judgement. You have to forge your own path. We all do!
going- I agree that him being her friend is not acceptable. I will give him time to come to that conclusion on his own, not years of course- or even months perhaps- but every day I see more and more of him coming through and realizing this conclusion, I also feel with a counselor he will start to also feel the same way. Only time will tell though...
Allora- Sorry that sometimes my thoughts border on the negative side. If my husband says a comment- I currently self sabotage- if there is something negative to find in it, I will. I am getting better but its hard. I guess I don't really think he doesn't love me, if he keeps contacting her. I think that it confuses me how he can say he wants to work on the marriage, assure me that she is not a threat- and then when she calls, experience mixed emotions. That makes me think that he is not 100 percent truly committed to the marriage again, and bothers me.
I do feel that each day we get closer and closer to a decision to either truly work on it or to walk away. I printed out the link you gave me and am going to ask him to read it tonight when I get home. I think this is a step that will help him. He often tells me I act irrational, or crazy, or comments on how angry I am when I lash out at him- I often say "Well move to Colorado and go me with OW" or I brow beat him he says- with low blows... I think this will help us both and I have a counseling appoint for July 8th, but am also on the stand by list if someone cancels.
thanks again friends.
know it's a life choice, one that you may or may not regret, but you have no way of knowing which.
I like that. Very true.
Also, if it was me and some OW was calling me - if I was him - I would pick up the phone and say "are you freaking crazy" why the hell are you calling me?
Stop Fing calling me you crazy nut. I don't need all of this drama. But apparently... he does...
I would be afraid to lose my W. I would. I would be afraid of Karma. I would be afraid of so many things. But this dude isn't afraid. he seems to like the drama. The love triangle. WTF is that all about.
That's what you should be saying to your CS. WTF.