Infidelity Support Group
Any relationship in which one partner engages willfully in sexual relations with another outside of the partnership is considered to have experienced infidelity. This breach of trust is often traumatizing for the faithful partner as well as the relationship, and support is often needed to heal emotionally and to decide whether or not the relationship should continue after...
Hi all. I'm 7-months from my final D-Day and my wife still isn't talking. When I say 'talk' I mean sit down and discuss our relationship in a constructive manner. We go from day to day, we say 'I love you' to each other, we often laugh, hug, our sex life is better than it's ever been, we talk about all sorts but never about her affairs unless I start that conversation and these always turn into stressful conversations that edge into an argument, then I get the quiet treatment for a day or two afterwards. I always come away feeling like I've done more harm than good.
What do I do?
There's a lot of history here. We were married 20 years last year. I say final D-Day because there were several, with a new affair or relationship revealed each time.
The first D-Day was May 2016 when I saw intimate text messages on her phone from another guy. She apologised and said it was a one-off. Her behaviour had been distant for several months but it seemed to improve. She put a lot of effort into our relationship.
Something must have happened because I began nosing around a few months later. I've helped my wife with her laptop so I knew a lot of her passwords and the rest were easy to guess or recover, so I soon had access to pretty much all my wife's social media and telephone records. I'm not proud of this behaviour.
She swapped high volumes of text messages in Jan 2017 with a second guy who lives locally to us. In a confrontation she revealed an affair with him ten years earlier that ended with an intimate sex act at his house. They had continued to message each other over the years because he wasn't happy in his marriage. After I confronted her she sent him a message (and showed me this) telling him that I knew everything and that she wanted no further contact.
Whilst monitoring her social media whilst she was away at an annual conference in Mar 2017 I saw an exchange between her and a third guy where they reminisced about their time in a hotel at the same conference the previous year. A sex act was described by him in graphic detail. When she came home I confronted her, she denied the sex act had happened, explaining that a less shocking but still intimate act had occured at another hotel a couple of months beforehand. I initially believed her. She sent a message to this guy explaining that I knew everything and that she wanted no further contact. Later on, after my paranoia wouldn't let go, I pushed her into revealing that the full-on sex act had indeed occured at the conference hotel. She admitted that the message sent to this guy was worded to be ambigious for my benefit. This full reveal took about 3 months, the most stressful time of this whole situation. That was my final D-Day: June 2017.
During this time I also discovered intimate conversations on different social media accounts between her and two other men. One of these was a real individual known to her -- when I confronted my wife she sent him the usual message saying it was over and showed me. The other man actually turned out to be a fake account that targetted married women, possibly for extortion, she blocked him.
I also discovered that my wife had been leading something of a second life on a certain social media site. We are both on this site but she hid her marital status and constantly hid and untagged my posts where we were both mentioned. She passively flirted when messaging men adding kisses and indicating to these men that she was separated: for example, by mentioning me as 'the kids dad'.
She also confided with several female friends, asking them for advice about one of the men she would later have an affair with. She also mentioned dating websites -- something she has denied using. Using this personae she would mention meeting other men, sometimes during trips with our sons -- she does not remember these conversations. She also mentioned losing a husband to cancer -- I haven't been able to ask her about this yet. This behaviour all seemed to start around July 2015 and it continued through to March 2017.
Her behaviour on social media has been as painful for me as discovering her affairs. I guess it's because it seemed so premeditated.
There are of course always two sides to any story. She has told me that I didn't pay her enough attention, that I was too critical, too controlling, not interested in her hobbies or work. She went elsewhere for this attention. I don't understand this because I remember asking her time and time again 'what's wrong' and that she said 'it's fine' every time. I believe that this lack of communication is related to childhood issues which I'll come to in a moment. She has since told me that her affairs aren't my fault afterall. I still feel to blame.
There's some other history about her family. She has a difficult relationship with her father. He is very much the patriarch and has always done all the talking whilst everyone else listens. No one in their family talks, that's just how it is. Her father has always been moody and he drinks a lot, less now, but I believe there was an alcohol abuse problem a few years ago. There are some stories coming out now that sound like emotional abuse throughout her childhood and one moment that sounds like physical abuse to her younger brother.
Apologies for the length of this post. I'm guessing I've probably lost most people by now. But it felt good to write.
I feel stuck.
However, from all those here it is pretty much a consensus that without boundaries that are enforced...it will happen again.
From your wife's background she likely grew up with very poor self esteem and this breeds self centeredness and selfishness from a very early age. This leads to a victim identify with high levels of entitlement. This is not easy to change as an adult as you have to catch up on a lot of development that didn't occur as a child or a young adult.
I doubt that many if any can conquer this without significant guidance. Real change will require professional help in the form of individual counselling.
My wife has started talking. She has initiated conversations several times a day over the last two days about her parents and our relationship. It's pretty exhausting actually but it's good. She has also started spending time online doing her own research.
I have previously asked her to plan a suitable day for a more formal sit-down discussion. Just now she came to me to suggest a day. That's a big deal, her coming to me. That's the first time she's done this. I want to see more.
She is also following through on creating distance from her parents. This sounds like a small thing but we have them around for Xmas Day every year. Yesterday she sent them a message telling them to plan ahead and arrange something else because we were going to be on our own. 11 months away, crazy. She said it was something she wanted to get out of her system. Another big deal.
I keep seeing the same feedback about selfishness and entitlement. I have a list of things to talk to her about and one of those things is that I need her to attend counselling.
Ultimatums: previously these caused arguments, then she'd agree and I'd feel (rightly or wrongly) that I'd received the minimum effort. I felt like I was making all the decisions. Now I'm just handing over the problem rather than an ultimatum (though I still set my own ultimatum). I need her to want to do this and prove it by going the extra mile.
We are definitely in a better place. That book was his “ah ha” moment.
Boundaries need to be set but if you can't back them up with action then it is nothing more than a threat and a manipulation.
As you recover and set your feet again you may be in a place where you can give her clear boundaries and consequences.
Self identification as a victim is a lazy way to deal with your problems as well as a cope out for your crimes.
I suppose she has used this a shell to protect herself after many affairs from the bitter truth of who she is and what she has done.
Growth can't happen if one can't own up and repent. For a chronic cheater there is much less hope because of the gravity of what they have to own up to.
....and I have to say it again. While you are not responsible for her choices, poor boundaries established by the betrayed spouse can enable a cheating spouse who gets accustom to crimes without consequences.
Post-nups. Any use? Have they helped or hindered your reconciliation? I'm in the UK.
I don't know UK laws but they are generally difficult to enforce, but that isn't the entire point of getting one.
It is a psychological test of intentions as someone who doesn't intend on staying faithful or feels they may change their mind would resist or refuse to sign one.
This is very telling of a cheater's intentions.. In your case she is a serial cheater and more likely than not will continue.
Even if you don't go through with getting one it may be a good idea to ask her for one and see her reaction.
If a friend asked me to promise them a million dollars if I end up killing their family with a riding mower it would be easy to agree as it is beyond fiction that I would do that.
If I hesitated my friend may want to reconsider our friendship.
So, admission time...I finally got myself tested for STDs/STIs and the results came back clear. So relieved. Yes I'm an idiot for not doing this sooner.
My wife is still talking and initiating conversations.
During one conversation I realised I had misunderstood her message about 'losing a husband to cancer'. She had a cancer scare a while back and the message actually meant 'losing her husband (I supposedly walked out) after her own cancer scare'. This is still a lie, I never went anywhere. She has already corrected this with the intended recipient and apologised for misleading them. This 'lesser lie' is a small relief to me. This reveal came as part of another conversation and I had to stop her, go back to her comments about this message and explain my misunderstanding. She was confused at first then horrified when she understood.
She has broken off contact with two of her female friends after I told her that I see these people as enablers: they were aware she was married. One of these was a very close friend and business acquaintance.
I've seen her angry for the first time. I realise now how locked-down she's been during our entire relationship.
She used the word 'cheater' for the first time to describe herself. She's previously had a problem using words like 'affair'.
She is still maintaining distance from her parents and being quite critical of them in front of me and our children. She has asked to 'steal' my mother instead.
During one long conversation she has finally stated that her contact with all six men constitutes six affairs.
I made my demand that she seeks individual counselling. This is a deal-breaker for me. She has said it's probably a good idea and has started looking at local counselling services. I need to see evidence that she keeps to her word about this. I need to see a gradual change in her behaviour.
We started to discuss finances and post-nups but it became too heated. To be revisited.
I think that's it except to say this... I'm worried about her. She seems very low, broken. I hope she slowly comes back over the next few days and weeks. I don't want to punish her, I need her to be my equal if this is to work.
Some people are too unhealthy to be in a healthy relationship with anyone and really never change.
The likelihood that she will cheat again from your story appears to be very high, however if your choice is to give her a 7th chance and have the stomach to possible suffer through another affair then I hope she really does change this time around.
The pattern of not setting boundaries and ultimatums over the last 6 affairs has enabled her behavior. She could be sociopathic, but in any case you continued to take her back over and over with little consequences. You may need to get some personal counseling yourself to find out why you aren't able to set boundaries and seem to have codependency issues.
I really do think a prenup is necessary in your case to protect yourself financially.
Family law favors the wife in +90% of court cases. You don't want to be cheated on again, lose custody of the children, end up living in a one bedroom apartment, while paying child support and alimony 7 time cheater.