Infidelity Support Group
Any relationship in which one partner engages willfully in sexual relations with another outside of the partnership is considered to have experienced infidelity. This breach of trust is often traumatizing for the faithful partner as well as the relationship, and support is often needed to heal emotionally and to decide whether or not the relationship should continue after...
Hi all. I'm 7-months from my final D-Day and my wife still isn't talking. When I say 'talk' I mean sit down and discuss our relationship in a constructive manner. We go from day to day, we say 'I love you' to each other, we often laugh, hug, our sex life is better than it's ever been, we talk about all sorts but never about her affairs unless I start that conversation and these always turn into stressful conversations that edge into an argument, then I get the quiet treatment for a day or two afterwards. I always come away feeling like I've done more harm than good.
What do I do?
There's a lot of history here. We were married 20 years last year. I say final D-Day because there were several, with a new affair or relationship revealed each time.
The first D-Day was May 2016 when I saw intimate text messages on her phone from another guy. She apologised and said it was a one-off. Her behaviour had been distant for several months but it seemed to improve. She put a lot of effort into our relationship.
Something must have happened because I began nosing around a few months later. I've helped my wife with her laptop so I knew a lot of her passwords and the rest were easy to guess or recover, so I soon had access to pretty much all my wife's social media and telephone records. I'm not proud of this behaviour.
She swapped high volumes of text messages in Jan 2017 with a second guy who lives locally to us. In a confrontation she revealed an affair with him ten years earlier that ended with an intimate sex act at his house. They had continued to message each other over the years because he wasn't happy in his marriage. After I confronted her she sent him a message (and showed me this) telling him that I knew everything and that she wanted no further contact.
Whilst monitoring her social media whilst she was away at an annual conference in Mar 2017 I saw an exchange between her and a third guy where they reminisced about their time in a hotel at the same conference the previous year. A sex act was described by him in graphic detail. When she came home I confronted her, she denied the sex act had happened, explaining that a less shocking but still intimate act had occured at another hotel a couple of months beforehand. I initially believed her. She sent a message to this guy explaining that I knew everything and that she wanted no further contact. Later on, after my paranoia wouldn't let go, I pushed her into revealing that the full-on sex act had indeed occured at the conference hotel. She admitted that the message sent to this guy was worded to be ambigious for my benefit. This full reveal took about 3 months, the most stressful time of this whole situation. That was my final D-Day: June 2017.
During this time I also discovered intimate conversations on different social media accounts between her and two other men. One of these was a real individual known to her -- when I confronted my wife she sent him the usual message saying it was over and showed me. The other man actually turned out to be a fake account that targetted married women, possibly for extortion, she blocked him.
I also discovered that my wife had been leading something of a second life on a certain social media site. We are both on this site but she hid her marital status and constantly hid and untagged my posts where we were both mentioned. She passively flirted when messaging men adding kisses and indicating to these men that she was separated: for example, by mentioning me as 'the kids dad'.
She also confided with several female friends, asking them for advice about one of the men she would later have an affair with. She also mentioned dating websites -- something she has denied using. Using this personae she would mention meeting other men, sometimes during trips with our sons -- she does not remember these conversations. She also mentioned losing a husband to cancer -- I haven't been able to ask her about this yet. This behaviour all seemed to start around July 2015 and it continued through to March 2017.
Her behaviour on social media has been as painful for me as discovering her affairs. I guess it's because it seemed so premeditated.
There are of course always two sides to any story. She has told me that I didn't pay her enough attention, that I was too critical, too controlling, not interested in her hobbies or work. She went elsewhere for this attention. I don't understand this because I remember asking her time and time again 'what's wrong' and that she said 'it's fine' every time. I believe that this lack of communication is related to childhood issues which I'll come to in a moment. She has since told me that her affairs aren't my fault afterall. I still feel to blame.
There's some other history about her family. She has a difficult relationship with her father. He is very much the patriarch and has always done all the talking whilst everyone else listens. No one in their family talks, that's just how it is. Her father has always been moody and he drinks a lot, less now, but I believe there was an alcohol abuse problem a few years ago. There are some stories coming out now that sound like emotional abuse throughout her childhood and one moment that sounds like physical abuse to her younger brother.
Apologies for the length of this post. I'm guessing I've probably lost most people by now. But it felt good to write.
I feel stuck.
It's painfully obvious to me that she isn't the lease bit interested in being faithful to you or honoring her marriage vows. That's the reason she sent the ambiguous message supposedly cutting things off with that one affair partner and it's the reason she doesn't want to talk about her affairs.
In an alcoholic family everyone learns early on that if you talk about the alcoholism, that's what makes it real. Ignoring it, laughing, joking, flirting and moving on with life belies the fact that there is a domineering alcoholic, or in your case a cheating wife living in the home. It's the way users spackle over problems to keep innocent partners engaged.
What you see as a possible explanation for her unwillingness to talk is likely an ego defense mechanism she picked up from her old man that enables her to continue to get her fix of cheating just like it enables him to continue to this day to get his fix of alcohol. You may think he is drinking less, but it's likely he just began to hid it more when 'outsiders' began coming around.
I'm sorry that you have spent twenty years with a selfish, psychologically immature woman who chooses to stay married and eat cake all day long.
Only you can decide how you want to live your life. You can't make another person love or respect you. You only have control of yourself. Even dragging a willing but basically unmotivated cheating spouse to a therapist just wastes everyone's time and money. She has to want to change for any of it to matter. She'll probably just tell you whatever you want to hear when she gets caught and continue cheating only she'll learn a little more how to hid it each time you bust her out. Sorry to be harsh but this is how I see your situation. I say rip the band-aid off and find someone who loves all the things she complains. Life's to short to play sex police to a promiscuous wife who swore her loyalty but turned out to be anything but.
PS: That little silent treatment you get for trying to work through this with her is a passive aggressive way that users threat the people in their life. It's a little negative punishment for daring to try to hold her accountable. It's common in adult children with alcoholic parents and a form of passive manipulation. I'm certain she sees this as a valuable tool in managing the people in her life, so don't go feeling sorry for her for being damaged by an alcoholic. It's the difference between how we see them from the outside looking in and how they see themselves.
In either case it is unlikely she is going to change. After 20 years I'm not sure what would make her hit rock bottom if she even can hit one.
Nothing about her in your story points to her being repentant or any will to change.
In a sense taking her back after so many times has likely enabled her further. Her friends are also enablers and of the same stripe.
The second life your wife lives is the one as a married woman. The person who has affairs whenever she pleases with no care for anyone else is her real life and identity.
"That little silent treatment you get for trying to work through this with her is a passive aggressive way that users threat the people in their life. It's a little negative punishment for daring to try to hold her accountable. It's common in adult children with alcoholic parents and a form of passive manipulation"
I've lived with this exact same treatment from my ex for decades. It's a "little" silent treatment, it's benign, it's not physical abuse, it's not drinking, their behavior could always be worse.....these are just some of the cop-outs passive aggressive people use in trying to win support for their behaviors. They're sorry, so of course you should forgive them and let them continue with their hurtful ways. But don't you dare bring up any issues, because you will be discounted, lied to, have the truths twisted so you can't determine truth from fiction.
They are master manipulators and have found a willing target. You should not trust your wife for a second longer. Stand up for yourself, examine what you've allowed her to do to you, why, and take control of your life. You must be strong for your own sake. I imagine your soul is in a very dark place.
Have you tried couples counseling, so an outsider can help to lead discussions in a healthy way?
Not sure about couples counselling. I've read a lot of negative feedback about that from faithful partners. Although I recognise had a part to play in our relationship issues I'm obviously not willing to take any blame for the affairs. I'm worried I'll be railroaded into taking some of the blame and I'm clearly not willing to do that.
What is everyone's experience with couples counselling? Any use?
@betrayedtodeath thanks, I'll give it a read
First of all, your wife has some deep seated character flaws. Things she will have to face and overcome before she will be able to let go of her cheating ways.
Loyalty: Regardless of what she says, she was fine with betraying the marriage vow she made to you. The vow you make to the man or woman you love is supposed to be sacred and the linchpin that holds the whole relationship together. She betrayed and disrespected you in the most profound way a woman can. She needs to work on herself to figure out why she feels no need to be loyal to the person she supposedly loves.
Selfishness: Your wife put her own need for attention and sexual pleasure above everything and everyone else. What makes her need for attention and sex so much more important than your need for a normal marriage? What makes it more important than keeping her family together and enabling her children to have a father? She needs to work on this issue of selfishness.
Entitlement: Having marital problems and not coming to your spouse and talking them out or asking for a separation before having sex outside the marriage smacks of entitlement. She's not entitled to walk all over everyone else's feelings to get her needs met. She's no more or less important than everyone else. She needs to work on understanding that she's not entitled to stay married and eat cake on the side year after year.
Deceit: She cheated more than once, lied to your face about it, and when you caught her out, each and every time, she lied some more by denying, minimizing, and telling half the truth. Even now, I doubt you know it all. She probably admitted to what you suspect, so you would stop questioning her. Deceit is a deeply ingrained part of her personality and she apparently sees no wrong in it until she gets caught.
The second problem you have is whatever marital issues are going that run independent of the cheating. Cheating is not the result of having a marital problems. Millions of people have problems in their marriage the world over, but don't end up cheating as a result. Cheating is a separate issue related to the character of the cheater. Nothing a man does or doesn't do gives a woman the right to cheat on him. She might have the right to be angry, ask for couples counseling, or even divorce him. She does not have the right to cheat on him.
The problem you have is that you are asking about marriage counseling, when you won't need that until you wife has made progress in individual counseling working through her problems. A selfish, deceitful, entitled, disloyal person is never going to make a good wife simply because you work on marital issues. Though it might not feel like it, right now marital issues are the secondary problem. THIS IS THE PRIMARY REASON THAT COUPLES COUNSELING DOES NOT WORK FOR SOME PEOPLE. It's not that couples counseling is not valuable, it's that the more pressing issues are neglected because of a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes cheaters tick.
You should know that you cannot restore a nice vintage car by replacing all the failing parts except the sputtering engine and expect to have a vehicle that is operational on the open road, safe to put your children in, and is something valuable enough to hang onto.
In a nutshell.
She needs individual counseling.
Down the road if she's working hard on her issues than yes couples co8bsrling will be beneficial as that should address the deeper relationship issues and help improve the relationship in the long run.
At first she tried to turn my requests into an ultimatum: what would I do if she didn't do these things? I refused to answer. That usually ends up with a debate, her getting upset, me making concessions and us 'agreeing' on what she should do. I'm done with all that. This is her turn to step up to the mark and make her own decisions based on my requests. I think she was shocked at this reaction from me.
During the last couple of days she's finally started talking. I've suggested counselling several times, she's not receptive to this yet but I'm not letting go on it. She ranted about her parents. She has finally started doing her own research online, she bought a self-help book. Small steps.
The situation with her parents is changing. They've been messing with her head the last couple of weeks. It's something trivial, it always is, a meal booked in an expensive restaurant tonight to celebrate our son's birthday, them booking a taxi to 'allow everyone to drink', us then wanting to drive ourselves, them making a big deal about cancelling the taxi, then changing the restaurant to one that's less expensive, changing their mind about meeting at their house beforehand. This is typically petty and controlling behaviour from them, I think it's an attempt to coerce us into becoming enablers for his drinking, her mother is complicit in this unfortunately. I also believe the 'downgrading' of restaurant and change of heart over meeting at their house is supposed to be punishment aimed at my wife. And that works by the way, it always has.
My wife says she's had enough with them. For the first time last night she told me that her father is an alcoholic. She came close but stopped short of calling him an abuser. We're still going to the restaurant tonight, my wife said she wants to avoid confrontation, She says she wants nothing to do with them afterwards. I said I was surprised at her saying this, I said I will be surprised if she actually follows through on that. She often back-peddles on this kind of statement. I will hold her to it.
She also spoke quite brutally about herself. She says she feels like a failure, judged by everyone, paranoid. She is sure this is her parent's fault. She says she cannot ever remember being congratulated by them, only ignored or punished. She says she knows there's something wrong with herself and she wants to fix it.
Thanks for your advice on couples counselling. We won't be going there for some time, perhaps not at all. I will require my wife to visit a counsellor for her own issues at some point. She doesn't realise yet how firm I'm going to be on that.
I am of course aware that my wife could be playing a game here, either deliberately or subconsciously. She could simply be stepping through what's expected to placate me. I am philosophical about this. I will give her time to improve. Not sure how long and I'm certainly not going to tell her in advance in case she uses that to 'pace' herself. I suspect my personal milestones will be March and June this year.
Is that too soon? What should I expect and when?
Meanwhile I am carrying on with my personal development. I'm getting my head back into work, which I really enjoy, I started a new evening class a couple of weeks ago for something I've always wanted to do. I went crazy on the exercise last year as a coping mechanism I think and I lost too much weight so I'm trying to eat and exercise in a balanced way. I'm also making sure I spend decent, relaxed quality time with my two boys. However this pans the three of us will be OK. It's for my wife to decide whether she joins in with us or not.
Have her read this... out loud to you!
It sounds like she's starting to realize your not the pushover she thought you were.
I think it's important to set your boundaries and do as you say. It's useless to set ultimatums and not follow up in them. It's fine to not discuss wgat your consequences are for her as long as you set them. As in 1 more lie and I'm gone kind of thing.
Make a sense how she ended up given her family history however she is her own person. She could have also decided to become the opposite of her parents and become a good person. She has no chance to improve herself without counseling I would say her issues are rooted deep.
You sound like your starting to see clear through all the fog. Glad ur starting to put urself first
The meal went OK last night. It was tense but we survived and we even had fun before/after when her parents weren't there. My wife and I spoke when we got home. She is still angry at them. She thinks her mother picked up on her quietness. I sat between my wife and her father, she thanked me for that. I voiced concerns that she might soften their stance over time with them. I mentioned counselling again.
And for what its worth, my requests WERE ultimatums. The consequence for refusing to participate in rebuilding was divorce and I was and still am 100% prepared to follow through on that if any of my boundaries are not respected. I tolerated being treated like a wife appliance for nearly 30 years. My acceptance of that treatment is on me, but I have learned better and will no longer tolerate anyone not respecting my worth (including me).