blondegal55:

While I concede there are people who live alone as hermits, I think you would also concede they are very few and far between.

Most of us need at least one significant other in our lives. We can go a long way with one. But none, as in "none forever", is very rare.

I don't have any specific evidence to support what I'm about to say, but may I assume the lives of "single forever" people are not happy ones? Whatever that means?

Generally speaking, humans are social creatures. That's why the cities are getting bigger and the small towns smaller. We prefer being together, even if we don't know each other's names. Again, an evolutionary psychologist would say that this was an adaptation that led to our reproductive success. Imagine if we preferred to be alone and live alone? You can draw your own obvious conclusion on the effect this would have creating offspring.

Almost all of us need romantic love in our lives. Those who are deprived of it are punished by their own nervous system in an effort to get them out there to find it. A very few exceptions do not negate the rule. We don't choose love. We were born to love (so that we will reproduce).

God have mercy on our souls. :) What a mess!

Well Moonbeamz,

Can't argue too much there! Seems to make sense for the most part! But still choose to believe my previous take on it, yet yours also is a strong possibility. I think it all boil down to individuals, and how they think.

Much like the topic of religion. Some of us in love, choose to adapt to the "story book" version, even though we know that hardly exists!!! lol

I do believe there are biological drives: and the basic needs of man being food, clothing, shelter, and sex! I'm not so sure love in actually in the mix. The sex part would address the urge and necessity to reproduce, but the love part........well

it's such a nebulous term, so intangible, with so many varied descriptions, based on so many individuals experiences, interpretations, and such....................

I think the "love" part will be discussed forever, attempting to define it forever, trying to find it...forever, and well as trying to regain it! Sure in medical/psychological terms, there is most likely some chemical release occuring in the brain, which then affects hormonal levels, phermonal levels, serotonin, norephrines, and probably a multitude of other chemical substances and reactions to those substances.

But then there is always how one interprets feelings and emotions, and what those limbic centers of the brain consist of. Maybe we all have various levels of bio-chemistry which varies from person to person. And then we have various traumas, stressors, and naturally occuring foks with other issues such as bi-polar, depresssion, and allthose other factors.

So, thereby, my conclusion. Love is such a nebulous term, indescribably delicious yes, but means something different to many different people! So until we come to a consensus about that term, whether it's a choice, a feeling, a neurologically/physically based thing.......who the hell knows???lol

Perhaps you'll change your opinion when - say 10 years down the road - a marriage counselor prescribes a drug to couples in crisis that triggers the production of oxytocin and vasopresin and then sends them off on a Carribean cruise together.

Suddenly, they feel "in love" again. Viagra for the plumbing, but oxytocin and vasopressin for the "feeling" of being in love.

I'll take exception to your description of love being "irreducibly complex". To the contrary, modern science is closing in on taking a picture of your brain and having a high degree of accuracy predicting whether or not you are "in love".

The mystery is being deconstructed rather rapidly. What we're finding is that "love" is our linguistic tag for a predictable sequence of events that happen in the brains of human beings. Without the right brain chemistry, romantic love doesn't happen.

It is one of the reasons Helen Fisher is very concerned about the widespread use of anti-depressants. There is some concern that these medications kill the neural mechanisms that allow us to feel bonded to our partners.

See the link below for more information...

Damned if we do, damned if we don't, huh?

http://www.ted.com/talks/helen_fisher_tells_us_why_we_love_cheat.html

Always very interesting stuff ......when you write Moonbeamz.

I may just do that, and check into that site!

Wow and all I wanted was a quick opinion on the quote from the book!!! ROFLMAO!!!

Michele and Blondegal - I like your take on things. Moonbeamz.....way beyond what my head and heart wanted to hear. Sorry. It was interesting though.

18 years ago after our first few dates, I fell head over heels in love with my H. I don't know why or how...I just did. I also knew in my heart that he would be the man I would marry. It was something about him. Soulmate???? Maybe...I don't know.

Now, 18 years, 2 kids and 1 affair (on his part) later, I feel that I am at a point that I must choose to (or not) love him. I do know deep in my heart that I do still love him. It is just buried under the pain of his betrayal. I just am not sure I can live with knowing the fact that he had a 2 year relationship with another woman.

Ok, that said, if I know deep in my heart that I still love him, he is doing all that he can to regain my trust and is being very loving, how do I get my head to let me move forward? So that is where my problem is: STAY - give him my heart back and love him 100% (if possible) again or DIVORCE - leave and don't look back.

Since he has been completely truthful and transparent, has become a very loving husband (not that he wasn't before - just not as tuned in) and swears he will never do this again because of the pain he has caused me, I am leaning towards staying.

Is this the right option for me - who knows. Will I be able to forget for long periods of time and be happy - I HOPE so! Can I ever trust him again - only time will tell the answer to that one.

So here goes... I did fall in love with him by CHANCE (feelings). I remained in love with him by his ACTIONS through the bad times early in our marriage with regards to infertility. He CHOSE to betray me in the worse possible way. His ACTIONS have been completely above board since DDay. So, I now CHOOSE to make my marriage work and to rebuild it stronger based on the small, buried amount of love that I have left for him.

May he not CHOOSE to betray me a second time as I will CHOOSE to have no feelings for him again.

Do I make sense anyone or did I just ramble?

Not that much of a ramble, at all, but you're asking the rambler of all time, lol!

No, it made a lot of sense to me! Thanks for liking my take on things. I do see how bio-physical chemistry enters the picture, regarding phermones, release of extra things and how they affect hormonal levels, etc.

But when it comes right down to it, I've often asked myself, what if my husband had a accident, was paralyzed, and couldnt' perform below his neck. Would that mean,that it should be over??? I think for many women, we'd stay by our man's side, out of love, commitment, and make the best of it.

Whereas, sadly, I don't think as many men would stay by their woman's side. Instead, I think many would "act as if" they are still married, and seek some outside source. I'm not certain, why I feel this way, I'd hate to think that I am so biased against the opposite sex......gonna have to think about that. But, I should add, that there are also women, who would decide they couldn't stay, cuz they also want to be sexually fulfilled. It's just a matter of the numbers, and I have no research or concrete evidence to support my theory!

In either case, I would hope that if a tragedy befell a couple, that they would still, hug, embrace, and show as much intimacy as possible, regardless of the situation. I think of Christopher Reeves & Michael Fox. These are only a couple cases, where the women really honored their vows, thru thick and thin, and proved it by their actions. What a wonderful world......if we all loved this much and proved it!!!

I agree!!!!

I know that I would remain faithful no matter what in that scenario. I do not know if he would. In my heart, I don't think he would remain that way to me. I also know that another affair - I'm GONE. There will not be another chance. There will be no discussion. It will be done and he will be served papers. He knows that.

Our world would be a nicer place if there was more honor and integrity in it. However, we do not live in that world.

What a great discussion! Like it. Moonbeam, you added some good food for thought. You know we don't always agree, but what the hell, it was good reading.

I think that love is both a feeling and a choice. After those first feelings, its a choice to stick with it thru those good times, those easy times, and then thru those hard times.

Perhaps I should say that love may be a feeling but true comittment is a choice?

My two cents...L~

Thanks L.!!!

Committment is a choice!!!

My ex shot that sentence down the second she read it, and I had seen that same statement - or something similar - in several different books and on blogs, etc.

Here's the thing. Love IS a feeling - in the beginning - its that wonderful rush of adrenaline, that wonderful feeling that overcomes you when you fall for someone and want to spend every waking second with them, that feeling of making love for the first time, etc, etc, and it is a wonderful feeling.

The truth...that feeling doesn't last forever. You can still feel it in bits and pieces after it initially wears off, but its a fact - that "in love" feeling doesn't last forever. A year or two tops. Then it becomes more routine and comfort that keeps people together. Those who are SMART learn that there are ways to LOVE someone once that feeling wears off. THIS is when it becomes a CHOICE.

The Five Love Languages addresses this really well and, although people have looked at me strangely, I have given this book to two different couples this year as wedding presents with the inscription "Please read after your first anniversary."

Any idiot can fall in love. It is the truly smart people who figure out how to keep that love alive once the feeling of newness wears off.
Marriage isn't fun and games, it is work, plain and simple. But if people only take the time to learn HOW to love their spouse after the newness wears off, it doesn't HAVE to feel like work.

For some, this makes a lot of sense. For others, they'll never understand it.

Dad, very, very well said.

Hats off to you...

L~

until now - I'm with you 100%