Ksprizzle89, Thank you for your post. Also, again thank you for standing up for me. You are absolutely correct that I have other "issues" (that was not meant to sound like I take offence to your statement) and I even agree that I likely have some sort of attachment disorder if that is even a thing. The intent behind my post was not to forgive her. I do not and I will not. Even if we decide to work through this, forgiveness may not be possible. My point here was really pointing at the conversation that seems to have stemmed from it between you and gravinggirl... it speaks to the intent of the board. If Chrissy is looking for help because she feels she needs it, I feel that is a sign of exactly what you said... her finally trying to take responsibility for her actions. I appreciate you restating your view and accept, even agree with much or most of it. It is in my nature to help those in need... I try very hard to live by the Golden Rule. If I made a mistake and was reaching out for advice on how to correct it, I would want someone to treat my effort with respect. Therefore, I feel obligated to do the same for others. I feel that is logic, not weakness. (did not mean to imply anyone meant to say it was weakness) Again, thank you for your support.

All, BTW, I am getting counseling... I know in my current state I cannot deal with this on my own. Thank you for your concern.

I think an important point to make... gravinggirl said in her initial post, I believe correctly, that in order for Chrissy to be able to improve, she needs to face what the actual cause of the cheating was. Though I was the one wronged by the betrayal of trust here, gravinggirl's statement stands true regardless. There is some underlying problem and I hold some measure of responsibility for that problem. That is not to say that I deserve what happened, but that is to say that there is almost never a situation between to people where only one side is culpable... I do not believe it is unhealthy to acknowledge that and, regardless of what happens between Chrissy and I, I think it is actually quite healthy to try to address our own issues. An example of this being (Again, not excusing her actions... and not what I believe our problem was) if she had constant appetites which I chose to ignore completely... i.e. she wanted sex every night and I only gave her sex twice a year... it might be healthy for me to acknowledge for the purposes of future relationships that ignoring the needs of your partner might contribute to larger problems down the road. I hope that makes some sense. I do say this in some measure in defense of myself... I am most definitely weak emotionally. I am far from naive or blind... I am just very self aware. I am a good person who truly did not deserve the situation I was in. I am not responsible for the situation I was in. I DO NOT forgive Chrissy for what she did to me. I do, and must acknowledge that I play some role in the circumstances that lead to my/our situation. I would appreciate if someone (other than Chrissy) would provide feedback it this particular post makes sense...

Ok, let me try...I gotta be honest, I've never seen a 'couple' on here, so I'm a little skeptical this is for real, but I'd like to keep it going, see how it turns out. I'm sorry Chrissy got bashed on here, but hopefully, you understand, the majority of the audience is betrayed spouses, so when a CS comes on and unloads their guilt, and wants to know how to fix what they've done...the majority of the readers (myself included) Have a hard time sympathizing when they/we see huge flags. The fact that Chrissy is looking for help - good, that she admits to cheating and lying - good, that she admits to blame shifting when James talked about his pain - good...but, these are all overshadowed by the huge red flags: the affair didn't end because she wanted it to, she says it ends because it wasn't convenient for the AP. That needs to be addressed, and I don't have the credentials to address that whatsoever. Chrissy, you risked your relationship (2 out of 7 years) for someone because you were convenient, and then you weren't? Theres more to it than that, I'm guessing, but you sound like you aren't just upset that your relationship with James is in jeapordy, but you blame your AP for breaking up with you instead of sticking it out to some end you had in your own mind. And the lies, on top of lies, unfortunately - it honestly may be too much to overcome all of that. Learning to love, think it's already been said, if you can't love yourself first, it may be a stretch to show someone else you love them. But, it's never too late to try...especially if you both are still willing. James...I think you're on the right track, but disagree slightly with a few things. 1. You can forgive - but the definition of forgiveness varies from person to person. 2. Don't fall into the 'responsible' for any role in her affair trap. True, a relationship will be stronger and more 'affair-proof' when both parties are actively working to meet each others' "needs", but affairs happen in seemingly happy marriages, as well. Don't confuse needs with wants. If Chrissy truly "needed" something, she knew that she could get it from you, I assume? Unless she couldn't, then if she needed whatever it was, and you couldn't provide it, then she should have done both of you a favor and ended the relationship, and tell you, "I asked time and again that you bring home a dozen roses on ever second Tuesday, you refuse, and so I must find someone who will meet this need." I'm oversimplifying, of course, but the fact is, Chrissy wanted something, and didn't vocalize it, someone else came along and gave her something she wanted when she didn't ask, and this was much easier than asking you to give her what she wanted...until she was no longer convenient, and then she no longer got what she wanted. The "emotional needs" is great for building a strong relationship, but I don't buy the CS who can list out the emotional needs that weren't being met, so they strayed to get needs met, but kept their spouse for convenience sake. That, in my opinion, is the CS trying to justify why they strayed. "If hubby/wifey did X, Y, and Z...I would never have strayed." I do admire any CS who comes to this board seeking help, and I welcome any insight into their decisions...but I would hope they can understand a little bit how some of their comments/stories can trigger a BS (especially someone who just discovered an affair) and unloads on them. I'd like to hope this site can help both sides understand, because I know it can't be all that simple, i.e. BS to CS, "just stop, No contact forever". CS to BS, "can we just forget this ever happened?" Good luck to both of you, sorry for the rant.

James - I've been in your shoes. If you are strong enough to forgive her and she has told the absolute truth, then there may be some hope. But if she isnt, or you catch her in another lie, you should just move on. I discovered a 2 month affair my husband had. went to counseling, discovered him at her apt about 2 years later. found out he kept seeing her after my discovery. did therapy, etc. about 3 years after that, I had gotten a drunken call from ANOTHER woman who he had an affiar with which was off/on for 7 years. THEN he tried to rekindle that. Had he been upfront and honest and told me everything, maybe things would be different today. Even if he is not cheating or lying now, I just cant feel the same as I had in the past. Good luck.

I concur with lookingforclosure. In the two plus years I've been here, I have never seen a betrayed spouse and a cheating spouse simultaneously post, so I as well doubt the authenticity of it, especially since the betrayed spouse is piping in for the cheating spouse.

This board is used primarily by betrayed spouses; all you have to do is read some of the posts to see this. If you're new to the site and are searching for support groups to join, you will see one called Cheaters Anonymous, and one called Infidelity Support. You will also notice that most cheaters gravitate towards and post onto the CA board, and most betrayed spouses come here to this board.

There have been many cheating spouses, and ex-cheating spouses, who post and comment on here to try and ply their way of seeing things onto betrayed spouses, and I can clearly see this happening in this post. The reasons why a cheater would come here, instead of the CA board to find support, tells me they have an agenda other than receiving support for themselves; it's not rocket science.

Lookingforclosure, thank you very much for your input. I appreciate that it is both insightful and constructive. I can understand your skepticism that this is real… maybe other than what my/our motive would be to do it… Either way, I assure you it is real. Nothing could be more real to me right now.

I do, and I believe Chrissy more than me understands how this could not be taken well by all. To be honest, I have little to no issue with anything others have said other than suggesting someone leave the board.

Rest assured I see the flags.

Her regretting losing her other relationship. Her not being “convenient any more”. Her not being the one who ended it…

This is a major issue with me. I have been trying very hard to help her understand this but she still does not. This post may have helped in that effort thank you. Maybe if she sees that a third party sees that glaring flag she will finally address it as it is one of the hardest things for me to deal with at the moment. I know, or am choosing to believe I know… that it is over. But the fact that she feels remorse that it is over HURTS beyond what I think she comprehends.

I feel like she is avoiding addressing it because she loved him and she is hurt. I feel and fear that I am the rebound relationship… I fear that she is using me to help her cope with the rejection she feels because he was stronger than me. I fear that she is with me know because she is afraid to get rejected a second time. I fear that she still wants to be with him and I am just a consolation prize.

I have a big ego. I struggle feeling like I am second place… I honestly don’t think she sees either of us that way. But it is still how I feel. Maybe she will respond here… I don’t know.

All the lies…

This is a huge obstacle… like wink65 says… the only chance there could possibly be for us is if the lies stop and I get the whole truth and can deal with it. We are past the point where I can accept any other changes to the story. I am at the point of obsessing with the past and it is killing me. Chrissy is a liar. She has always had issues with lying… I just didn’t realize it was about big important life crushing things…

If I am being open. I am afraid to lose her. I am afraid to be alone. (I know that is an issue) I know I love her with all my heart. Before I knew what was happening… I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. She was not only my lover but my very best friend. I know it all sounds cliché but it is true. I don’t feel like I am willing to give that up without a fight…

I have never seen Chrissy put in so much effort as she has since we have started going through this. I may be lying to myself but I know I want to believe that she can change. I believe I am seeing a change now I have never seen before…

I feel ASHAMED that I want to try and make this work. Going back to The Golden Rule… I don’t know what I would feel about someone willing to try after what she was done. I would likely think they were weak or broken and making a huge mistake destined for more pain. I would feel much less compassion for them when the inevitable worst happened. Therefore…

Regardless… I don’t feel I can accept giving up without at least TRYING to address things.

She didn’t voice her concerns and give me a chance to address them…

You have made you point perfectly clear and it is perfectly accurate and a HUGE obstacle for me. Again, I hope that Chrissy seeing this from a third party will help her see how big of an issue this is. I would have done ANYTHING to try and make her happy. I have my failings… effort in those I love is not one of them. …of course this is for things I see and understand exist. If anything I would say, if I know there is a problem, I become obsessed with fixing it (another problem I know).

I have tried to explain to Chrissy that if we are going to work through this she will need to be open with me about her needs emotionally and physically. Before she was not open. It is hard for her. Now, she seems to want me to stick my head in the sand. She wants me to believe I am perfect and EVERYTHING is her fault. Like I have a free pass in life from now on. That is not helpful either. Sticking my head in the sand will not help. Believing I am Superman will not make our relationship more “affair-proof’.

Please understand that I do NOT believe I am to blame for this. I know that she made these choices. I am not THAT unhealthy. She had better options than the ones she chose. But if we are going to make this work. If we are going to try. I do want to make this as “affair-proof” as I can. I hope that makes some sense…

I would like to be clear about a couple things I feel are happening in this discussion. Chrissy has not, from what I have seen, been defensive about other people posts. From what I have heard, off the board, she has not felt she was wronged for the responses here. That was ME saying those things. I guess I didn’t understand the premise of this board.

Chrissy had not, on or off this board, listed any excuses as to why she did what she did other than she was selfish and stupid.
I only say this so that people do not project things I am feeling onto her.

Lenoire - I am sorry you doubt our/my sincerity.

I apologize if I have broken the norm by piping in and that causes you to doubt. I have dealt with many people through my life recovering from one thing or another (including myself) and the one universal truth I have found is that people are stronger when they have help.

Even if Chrissy and I do not make it through this... I do not want her to be unhappy... I do not want her recovery crippled. I love her like I am sure many of you struggle with still feeling love for the people who have hurt you.

I will admit. I did not read ANY other posts on this board or this site... I was brought her by seeing and email and clicking a link. Perhaps you are right and I should have been more conscientious about the content of the site before I posted. Perhaps Chrissy should have as well.

If I am being open, I still do not understand what possible motive I would have for posting here if it was not sincere. I could possibly understand how someone who is a cheater could come here, knowing it is only victims of cheating, trying to get validation and forgiveness from someone since they couldn't get it from who they cheated on. (Which is not what Chrissy was doing) But what do I get out of this? Why would I put this effort in?

I am much more extroverted than Chrissy is. I have been venting, hearing, and learning... which I think is the purpose of this site... Chrissy barely posted anything since I high jacked her thread, yet people are acting like she is trying to get more from this... If you read back through... She has posted NOTHING but a thank you when redirected to the cheaters anonymous site.

So did she post in a less than ideal place? Maybe... Did she pursue it after that? No. I am the one who was cheated on. I am the one talking here... I guess I am just a little lost... and a little hurt.

To everyone: I am sorry for whatever you all have been through. I appreciate the support you have shown. I am sorry if this thread hurts you. It was not my intent.

If you are sincere in wanting to support someone, if some part of seeing both sides of this as it plays out is helpful to you, if you are just curious... thank you for your support and concern.

I will gladly accept that this discussion could push some buttons and accept a little bashing. I bristle when my integrity is challenged.

I would suggest, if you do not believe I am sincere (I will not question Chrissy in this particular matter as she has not posted past her original post) I suggest you do not return to the thread and wish you well in your own recovery.