Wow - quite a story and probably way beyond anything I have had experience with. But to answer your question about knowing the truth:

You never will. You married a liar and a cheater and they do not tell the truth. They protect themselves at all costs.

You think there's more? You can bet there is.

That's the thing. She's never been a liar and cheater before. I've never had reason to mistrust her. I didn't catch her, she confessed. The only reason I even felt it in my gut that she was cheating was because I could see something tearing her up inside. I also feel like I contributed greatly to the loss of innocence in our marriage with that sexual life style we started to live. That's why I posted so many details.

Do I feel there is more because of my insecurities now? Or because I see so many other horror stories that my story can't be that simple? I'm not sure.

I've already been to the website and I am considering buying the book. I appreciate your input. That's why I posted.

I do have one question though. Where am I in denial? I have accepted the fact that the "A" happened. I am also well aware that if it happened once it can happen again, and I am ready to deal with that. I'm just not sure that I have all the facts and that is driving me nuts.

Just exactly what do you think I am in denial about? Serious question. No sarcasm. If I am in denial about anything I would like to be aware of it. Again, that's the reason I'm on here. To get feedback. Thanks

Interesting story.

One, while this doesn't excuse her affair, the whole porn and swing clubbing probably made it easier for her to allow it to happen. It is certainly an increased risk in that type of lifestyle.

That said, she made a bad choice that has damaged your relationship. It is up to her to fix it.

On the whether you can know you have the whole truth or not, in the end, you really can't short of finding a full confession to a friend or online sex-chat partner. Even then, you can't know that everything is there.

In my case, I'm fairly confident I received the whole story. One, because I learned about it by seeing such a confession to one of her sex-chat partners the first time I used a text recorder on her computer. Also, the info I received coincided with events I knew had happened, like when her personality shifted significantly. Because she'd never acted that way in the 28.5 years of our marriage, it was an obvious change in her due to the advances of OM #1. From what you shared, it sounds like you noticed a similar shift in your wife's personality as well.

Even though I believe I've got most, if not all, the truth, I can't guarantee that there wasn't something else she's never told anyone about, including her sex-chat partner. I'd say it is unlikely at this point, 5 years since dday, but not impossible.

That's only to point out that you can never be sure you know the whole story even in the best of circumstances. So to a large degree, that is an unrealistic goal. What you're really shooting for is getting to a point where your gut says, "I feel confident that I have the main pieces to this puzzle."

To that end, the only way you can get there is if she becomes fully transparent and is consistent in hiding nothing from you. Over a period of time (differs for everyone), you will eventually feel you've got all the important stuff, and you'll be ready to move on. But if you continue to find she's not being honest with you, or new revelations happen that she failed to mention, it keeps that from healing. You need to consistently discover her telling the truth over a period of time to feel confident she is being fully honest with you about the A.

Another point is to help her understand why you need to know the whole story. If you can both read the following article on the topic of recreating your relationship story, it might help her to understand:

http://healinginfidelity.blogspot.com/2013/10/narrative-reconstruction.html

Make sure she knows that you don't want any time bombs that will destroy any progress as you move forward, so she needs to tell you everything now so you can do this reconstruction process once, not multiple times.

Also, for your part, you'll have to decide when you've have enough that more isn't going to make a big difference. For instance, what if she really had sex all five lunches? Or there were other times she didn't mention? In the end, aside from the honesty question, would it be any worse in your mind? She had sex with another guy. That's a full violation. Adding to it doesn't make it that much worse.

There comes a point when you settle for what info you have, you hope she's been honest with you, and there are no signs that she's not being honest. So knowing you likely don't have all the details you want, you leave it there until and if some new information comes to light, then you'll deal with it then. Or, you never feel comfortable that she is being honest with you about it all, and it leads to separation and/or divorce, or a very dysfunctional marriage.

Which of those roads this goes down depends in large part on how fully transparent she becomes, not only about the affairs, but about her whole life: financial, family, socially, etc. The more you feel she lies to you even about small things, like whether she talked to a particular friend or not, the harder it will be for you to gain back any trust in what she says to you about the affairs.

Because truth is, it is very common for CSs not to tell, and only tell what they feel they can get away with when they do have to fess up. And remember, your wife only confessed because you told her you knew she was having an affair. At that point, she probably felt there was no getting out of it, she'd have to tell you something. In that situation, it is common for them to only confess to a minimum, and put it in the best light, like she did saying it was only once and she felt guilty about it (but apparently not guilty enough to confess without your prompting).

So I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't more to the story than she's let on. She may not want to tell you something like she actually fell in love with her AP, because that would make it worse on her part and nobody likes to rat themselves out. It takes a strong person to do that.

But there is no way for her to prove to you she is telling you everything either, if indeed she has. She can't prove she didn't do something very easily. So in the end, it boils down to whether you're willing to take the risk that she's telling the truth, and hope and pray she proves her trustworthiness in the coming years. And how much dishonesty overall you'll be willing to put up with before you are ready to throw in the towel on any rebuilding attempts.

Thankfully my wife has proved herself these past 5 years, and most of my trust in her has been rebuilt. Hopefully your wife will do likewise. If not, that is a problem.

You've given details about you and your wife and her affair, but no mention as to why she and your family became estranged.

Your dabbling in porn is what spawned her affair, from what I can see, not the estrangement between her and your family, that just kickstarted it. The porn caused a rift between you two, and the unbalanced dynamic of, it's okay to bring another woman into it but not another man, further exacerbated the situation. If you can't realize any part of this, you're in denial.

There is a lot here to process, and I think seeing a therapist may help you. This all started when you decided to use porn to liven up your sex life. Porn is not something that brings couples closer together. It may in the short term, and it may seem to be the right thing to do at the time, but as you can see from experience, it damages tenderness for one another, expands carnal desires, pushes the limits of acceptance, and eventually leads one to look after their own physical needs, when in disunity.

Watching porn is a solitary form of entertainment that leads one to expand their voracity for deviance, and you helped make that happen. I know it wasn't your intention, but that's what happens when you choose and introduce an addictive form of self-stimulation like porn. If you don't realize any part of this, I'd say you're in denial.

What she did with her affair partner, is probably a lot more than what she's telling because she wants to preserve herself and your marriage. Cheaters try to convince themselves that by giving you less details, it spares the betrayed spouse from more pain. Yet in reality, it's a protective measure, and it is they who is being spared from the repercussions, and not the betrayed spouse from further pain. If she says it was just one time, you can be guaranteed there were numerous times, and perhaps not with just one person.

Cheaters are liars by nature. You say she fessed up on her own, but didn't you say you were prodding before she confessed to you? So in reality, she didn't tell you on her own, you had to ask, and so she's only told you what you asked. I'll bet my knickers she's been up to more than what she claims, especially if she was getting off on being with women.

You think you're past the anger and hate, and perhaps you are, but if you were to discover more, it would come back at you with greater force than ever before.

You can ask her again, but she probably won't want to open up that wound and go there for fear of repercussions and the possible loss of her marriage. Right after D day is the best time to get what you can out of the cheater. Allowing for months to pass, gives them the ability to put it all behind them, and convince themselves there wasn't anything more going on. So I doubt that she's suddenly going to go into detail about it with you.

I wish you well.

Thanks for your response Cole. I really appreciate it.

I just want to add that my wife has really been trying to help me heal and has done everything she can to be transparent or as our Christian counselor put it , she is keeping herself "blameless". Meaning she is not putting herself or our relationship in a position for her to be blamed for this type of behavior again.

She didn't blame the affair on our lifestyle, but she did say the same the same thing you just said. It made it easier for her to do that because our lifestyle had lowered her self worth and self esteem to the point where she felt like trash.

Of course, she never explained that to me during that time. I did know that she had some issues with that life style but they were always related to morality and God not blessing our marriage. I was naive enough to tell her that we would be fine as long as we always did things together. I knew I was strong enough to stay faithful but I never took in to account that it might be her who would slip.

I'm fairly confident that it was over when she told me and that she has stayed away from him.

There is only one person that knows what has happened and that is a family member of hers which I am pretty close to as well. She has backed my wife's accounts to the best of her knowledge. At least the part where she is remorseful and that it was over when she told me. As a matter of fact being a BS herself she was begging my wife to come clean with me even though the "A" had ended.

It's tough not having anyone close to me that I can talk to about this. With the family issues we've had, it wouldn't help our situation giving them another reason to dislike her. I won't tell my best friend because quite frankly I'm embarrassed.

I'm a Latin Male and in our culture, it is weakness to forgive an "A". There are labels for those men. This is not to say that Latin men are more macho than other men. It's simply an antiquated outlook that still hasn't evolved in our culture yet.

I guess this is why I am here. I need to communicate with people that have been through the roller coaster of emotions that I have been through.

Couples counseling has helped to an extent, but the counselor has focused on the family issues which were quite severe. It has helped in that regard but I get very little out of it as far as dealing with my emotions to the "A".

I realize that I will never know every last little detail. The tough part is trying to move on and putting this behind us and thinking that I have to be naive in order to do so. That even though I know the worst of it as she used to say, that a new revelation could sabotage our efforts down the road.

I think in my case I am also dealing with it as more of a pride thing than an emotional thing. She admitted having some feelings for him. Not love but she just liked hearing from him and enjoyed his company. Of course, he was filling my void and telling her all the things that she wanted to hear. How pretty she is, how nice her hair is, and blah blah blah. Then she gets the cold shoulder from me when I got home because to me that was preferable to a fight. I get that he made her feel good about herself and I didn't care how she felt. What haunts me is the physical aspect of the "A". The fact that another man put his hands on my wife.

Anyway, I apologize once again for the long winded post. As I said, there is no one else that I can speak with so I'm hoping to be able to vent and get some of this out of me on this forum.

Thanks again.

Lenoir,

Thanks for you response.

I realize what role I played in what happened. I have so much regret over that. I am not in denial about my part. I wish I could take back that deviant lifestyle we were living. The only thing I will add in my defense is that she was a willing participant. I didn't force her to do anything she wasn't willing to do. That said, I should have known better and I should have protect our marriage better than I did.

She has never been a liar or a cheater before. We were always open about our past. I told her all about my sex life before we were married and she told me about hers. She even knows that I was the CS in my first marriage.

I think that part of my struggle is that she was women of faith when we met. A church going girl that was able to bring me closer to God. At some point I was stupid enough to believe that I could separate God from our sex life. I didn't think we were hurting anyone and since it was a consensual lifestyle that our marriage would be strong enough to survive it.

I also realize how selfish I was in only allowing women. It was very selfish. But again, she went along with it. I'd be lying if I said that I didn't struggle with what we were doing and the consequences we would face before God. I was just too caught up in it and made all kinds of excuses to myself as to why it was OK. I am not in denial about that.

If it weren't for the fact that I participated in that lifestyle and that I led her to that lifestyle, I don't think I would still be married today. I take responsibility for all of it. However, it doesn't hurt me any less than a BS that was much more innocent than I was.

For those reasons I have forgiven her for the betrayal. What I am still struggling with is the fact that she did let another man touch her. She claims that it was just an emotional affair for her. She needed to feel special and loved and he filled the void.

I realize that I laid the foundation for what happened and that I am reaping the consequences of that. But at the end of the day, she had a choice. She could have asked to go to counseling before instead of after the "A". She could have asked me for a divorce if she was that unhappy. She could have done a hundred other things but she chose the easiest and most destructive way to deal with our problems. That part is on her.

As for the confession, yes I asked her to confess. I told her that no matter what she told me that in my heart I knew. I guess that made it easier for her to confess. But the fact remains that I could tell from her actions and her demeanor that she was full of regret and hate. I knew at that time, and she confessed to it later, that she blamed me for what she had done and that she hated me for it.

I just wish she would trust me with the entire truth. As I said in another post, her story has remained the same from day one with the exception of a couple of minor details that wouldn't make or break anything.

Maybe it's because of the lifestyle we were living that I am having a hard time believing that there was only one sexual encounter. Maybe because of my past experience as a CS I can only see the males perspective of an A. That being of a physical A instead of an emotional A. Who knows?

Thanks again for your response Lenoir. I really appreciate it.

As far as the physical aspect you are having trouble getting over, i.e., him touching your wife:

Yeah, that is hard. And there's nothing that can be done to change what happened. She can't change that; too late. There are simply some things that you lose in this mess and there is no changing the facts.

Probably the hardest thing for me to deal with was the loss of what we had together. Neither of us had ever been with anyone else in a physical manner. I treasured that special intimacy. What we had had never been shared with anyone else. It was special to me. And I had thought with her. But apparently not as much as I did.

That died on Dday, and we can never get it back. For things like that, you simply have to work through the stages of grief until you can come to an acceptance of it. By that I mean, you accept that it happened, it can't be changed, what's done is done, and if you want to move on instead of looking back, you're going to have to let go of the focus causing you to dwell on it.

How long that will take depends. You can't necessarily force it, and it is different for each person. For me it did take around 9-10 months past Dday before I came out of my depression and could focus on the future we were building. I have an article on the stages of grief you might want to read:

http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/healing-infidelity-through-faith/news/view/3869850

And yes, 5 years later, there is still pain for what died on Dday. I just don't think about it a lot. I came to a point that first year where I realized all the grieving over it would never change anything. No one could change it. There was nothing I or her could do to fix it. Well, potentially the Doctor could (the time-traveling alien on Doctor Who). But that's a fantasy.

We've successfully rebuilt, but those losses are still there. Even though what we have sexually is better than its ever been, that loss stays with you, and all you can do is come to a point of acceptance of it so you can move forward with life.

But give yourself space to grieve. Eventually you come to the point when you're ready to accept it and move on. Don't force it.

Cole,

You have been very helpful. Thank you so much for your input.

I am having a harder time dealing with this than I thought I would. Before D day, when I knew in my heart that she had done something, I really thought I would be able to handle it. After all that we had been through with our crazy sex life, I thought that I could think of it as just sex. Boy, was I wrong. My whole world has been turned upside down.

Our counselor has explained to us that it was easy for me to deal with her being with women because they didn't pose a threat. With men it becomes a competition. I guess that makes sense.

Emotionally I am a mess also. I've come to realize that I can only be close to her when I am feeling vulnerable. Those are the moments that I can hold her and kiss her and have sex with her. But, that vulnerability comes and goes in spurts.

Other times I am sad, angry, or bitter. In those moments it's hard for me to be physical with her. This is hard for her because as she puts it, she lets her guard down when I am vulnerable only to have to put it up again when I am distant. She's on a roller coaster of emotions as well.

A couple of months ago I promised myself that I wouldn't insult her anymore. We were sitting at a restaurant and something triggered me (can't remember what) and I laid into her and let her know exactly how horrible of a person she was. Very quietly of course as to not make a scene but I was ruthless. It put a look on her face that I still can't forget. I had never seen a more defeated look on someones face or in someones eyes. I couldn't sleep that night and felt terrible for letting my emotions do that to her. Thank God I have been able to keep my word on that since that day.

I know I love her but there is more to it than just love at this point. It's like I have explained to her; at this point I don't have any great options.

Behind door #1 is a divorce. That would destroy everything that we have built together and our children's happy lives. They love to tell us how they are the only ones in their group of friends who's parents are together.

Behind door #2 is me accepting this, and living with it. It's always going to be there no matter what I do. The pain will always be there just waiting to be triggered.

Behind door # 3 is just trying to coexist in a loveless marriage until our children are off to college in about 8 years.

One of the things that I regret the most since D day is that I laid into her about religion. In the days after D day she tried to quote scripture to me to try and help me. To try and help heal us. I thought it to be the most hypocritical thing I had ever heard.

This is a women that grew up in the church. She can receipt scripture from memory. She know the bible inside and out. So I told her to stop being a hypocrite. That all she was doing was hiding behind God and the bible. She should have used all that knowledge to prevent her from doing what she did instead of after the fact.

Of course, I am just as big of a hypocrite because I was sitting in Church every Sunday and living a sinful sex life the rest of the week. Anyway, that impacted her and she has turned away from God and religion altogether.

I'm not some innocent victim. I know that what were doing sexually laid the foundation for her transgression. I have to live with that.

Surprisingly, I'm not having that hard of a time with the emotional aspect of this. Even though she claims that it was more of an emotional affair because of our problems and the distance those problems put between us I can somehow handle that.

I mean, she didn't fall in love with him. She didn't leave me for him. She knows that those feelings were just a way of escaping her reality and that reality was that she was miserable. At this point it means nothing. The physical part however, that can't be taken back. That can't be meaningless at this point. It happened and I have to live with it.

You know, her AP is married also. From what my wife explains to me he is a serial cheater. As far as I know, he doesn't know that I know of the A. It supposedly ended a month before D day. Trust me, I've had been tempted to confront him many times. Luckily he lives an hour away and he is not a local. I also have never tried to reach out to his wife. I think that's beneath me to do so.

I would only be doing it out of revenge. If he is a serial cheater I'm sure she either knows and doesn't care or will find out sooner or later. I destroyed my first marriage and I contributed to the screwed up marriage that I am in know. I don't want to contribute to the destruction of someone else's marriage.

Anyway, just some more venting. I find that it helps me to write this stuff on here. Again, all input is welcomed. Different opinions and perspectives are helping bring some clarity to my own fog of war.

Thanks

It's common for women to not accept responsibility for their affair.. I don't know why.. It seems to be every other reason ... Your family, porn... Not her bad judgment

I agree with you CarliRN. However in my quest to know why, these are the "reasons" that she gives me for being in that vulnerable state she was in to even entertain a Facebook chat with another man. She has told me that she is regretful, sorry, and that there was no excuse for what she did. She wishes she could take it back. Of course, once you do what she did and hurt someone like she hurt me, those are just words after the fact and they can't make anything better.

sounds like the Both of you were " called to the table" for what neither of you were prepared to' order up, digest and pay for' ???'
Good Luck!

Hello. It's been a little while since I last updated this post and almost a year since D Day. I just want to get some opinions and a different perspective. My wife and I have been getting along fairly well for a few months now. She really has done all of the things in her power to try and help me heal and to try and salvage our marriage. I don't have any complaints about that. It's almost as if I have my old wife back. I think that's what she is striving for.

The problem I am having is with myself. I am like an emotional zombie with her. Yes, we have sex and we share some good moments here and there but for the most part I feel really unattached to her. Most of the time, when I look at her I see nothing but disappointment. I see a weak, and selfish person. I see mostly pain. There are times that I get down about the situation and I become vulnerable and those are the moments that I seem to be able to let her in a little bit and bond with her and have a little happiness. However, those vulnerable moments are coming much less frequently. For the most part I am OK with just co-existing with her in our home.

I think the whole thing has warn me out mentally and emotionally. For the most part I don't initiate sex with her. That was such a big deal to me before all of this. However, if I see that she doesn't initiate it either for a while I start to get upset. Not because I desire it but because she might not desire it. When I'm cold and distant she tends to stay away which also upsets me but then, when she try's to be close to me I find myself not wanting that either.

I guess because I've been so crushed by what she did I feel like whatever affection she gives me can't possibly be genuine. This might sound weird but I hate it whenever she gives me a compliment. Especially a compliment in bed. It just puts me in a bad mood. It's also very hard for me to give her any compliments. I have to remind myself and force myself to compliment her when we go out and she gets dressed up. Not because she doesn't look good but it's just not natural for me. I do compliment her in the end because I know it means so much to her.

I am doing better in other aspects of my life. I am able to concentrate on work, and I am able to find joy in my kids, and my hobbies. A good while ago I stopped checking up on her and checking her phone logs. I think that has helped. I know that if she does it again it I will find out about it one way or another. As our therapist says, "it all comes up in the wash". I also know for certain that if it does happen again I will leave. There will not be another chance. I promised myself that she will never hurt me again and I think that helps me to not busy myself with call logs and secret searches of her belongings.

Last night she was hugging me and kissing me in bed. She just wanted to be close to me. I took the opportunity to bring up the topic. I told her that she can't possible be that crazy about me when she did such a horrible thing to me. She tries to reassure me that she does and that she always has. So, I again remind her that there is no way she could do that to someone she loves. It ruined the moment and then she said something that I hadn't considered. She told me that every time she tries to reassure me how much she loves me that I bring up the A. She said, "Just tell me not to say it to you anymore and I will keep my distance. If you want to just co-exist in the house I will."

That's kind of why I am on here today writing this. I'm not sure I am in love with her anymore. I do love her and our family and everything that we have built together but I'm not sure if I am in love with her anymore. I don't think she would be my choice today if I had to do it all over again.

She's not stupid. She can sense that something has changed in me. She asks me all the time if I am in love with her to which I reply, "of course" , but she always says " I don't think you are". She tells me that I don't compliment her, that I don't talk to her much, and that I am not affectionate at all. Of course, she is right about all of that.

I know that I don't want a divorce. Not sure why. The kids and our family is a big reason why, I guess. This is also my second marriage and I am much older than the first time I divorced. And, even though I might not be in love, I think my pride gets the best of my thinking that she would be able to move on and be with another man.

I'm totally messed up mentally. I'm here physically but not mentally. I'm not sad but I'm not happy either. I say I forgive but I'm not sure I can. I certainly can't forget. Not even for one day. I try to picture our future together but at the same time I catch my self day dreaming of what it would feel like to be with someone else again. Someone that I could start new with and not have to deal with all of this crap. Someone that I could love freely and not worry about getting hurt.

Anyway, enough of my rant for today. As always, all opinions and advice is welcome. Thanks for listening.

I have to say it is common for cheaters to not accept responsibility for their cheating. The soon to be ex husband confessed nothing until i told him i had proof. Even with hotel receipts and call logs he did not confess until i called his bluff and called the other woman. I did this with 3 women.

In your favor, her confessing is a plus. Her keeping everything up front and open is another good thing. She just has to know that trust takes years to build and minutes to tear down. Just like a building. If she is not willing to wait out those years, then you know. If she is willing to keep everything in the open even innocent things, you might eventually forgive her and move forward. Best of luck!

Hi There! I'm a CS and I'm writing because you asked for different opinions. I also have dabbled in the lifestyle.

My very first thought in any of this is where is your accountability? You led her into the lifestyle.....you said you would be fine with a 3some with an other woman (duh.....never met a guy in the lifestyle who said....oh, no baby, that's not for me.....). She asked expressed an interest in a MFM...you said no....(help me understand why its ok for you, but wasn't ok for her.....), she was probably curious, got shot down by you coupled with low self esteem, because as you know 'the lifestyle' can do that to you when your man is willing and able to be with other women and watch other women but you are there to only witness/participate in that and serve him and can't explore for yourself, and maybe found a man who would allow her to express herself and made her feel valued. Yes he was probably telling her she was pretty, etc and her husband was saying, "I enjoyed watching you with that hot blonde over there". She probably did feel like trash....and you fully contributed to that and for whatever reason didn't feel comfortable expressing that to you (maybe while looking at your eyes watching her have oral sex with other women).

Then this poor woman (your wife) who had issues with the lifestyle and morality and EXPRESSED THAT TO YOU (fair, no?.....I'm sure the nun in my Catholic school may call it adultery and tell me I'm going to burn in the fires of hell as she was running her fingers over the ruler, am I right?) was told by her husband its ok as long we can do it together, again, me and you other women but (oh that's right) never other men......

Then you have the audacity to say she was a woman who grew up in the church and should have used all that knowledge to prevent her from doing this. Seriously? Seriously? Did you use all that knowledge while you got off watching women get off on your wife? I grew up in the church too, but I don't sit at the right hand of God, like you must. We are fallible, we make mistakes, God forgives.....he forgave the murderer crucified next to him. I guess that is beneath you.

She CLEARLY regretted this. She turned away from her faith (because she is probably terrified) and buddy, you have a hand in screwing her up. A big hand. She feels horrible, she has tried everything she can in her power to work through this. She has taken it upon herself to move forward and work on all the healing from deviating from lifestyle you led her to. Nice. And now you say......NOW YOU SAY......."the whole thing has worn YOU out" "I don't initiate sex, but if she doesn't I get mad" "I don't give her any compliments, I don't want to compliment her" She says she wants to be close to you last night and you say, "I can't because YOU did such a horrible thing".

And then you state in your latino culture its a weakness in our culture to forgive. Well guess what, its 2016. We forgive, we move on, we become whole again and strive to better ourselves. With all the hate and violence and anger in this world right now, how can you not give equal amounts to help this woman move on? And maybe moving on is allowing this woman freedom to find someone who is loving, who is forgiving, who does love her and want to be in her life. Its not your role as her husband to make sure she is a perpetual state of penance. Believe me, believe me when I tell you.....EVERY DAY.....EVERY SINGLE DAY....she is punishing herself in her head. EVERY DAY she wishes she can take it back. EVERY DAY she wishes it never happened and EVERY DAY she struggles with what she did to you and her family.

I apologize for coming off so strong but reading your story......I feel sorry for your wife living in this constant state of uncertainty and animosity where she seems to be trying the best way she knows how and is now stuck to being married to a man who writes that he wouldn't marry her again, isnt' in love with her, and hardly talks to her, let alone compliment her or be affectionate to her. What kind of existence is that?. There are so many other guys that would take this woman, forgive her past, and cherish her. It sounds like she needs that.

And you know, if you think your kids don't see this....guess again.