Cali, I'm sorry, but I think your H is lying to you.

It seems like you've allowed your H to sway your opinions of the OW's H to the point that you now believe the guy is emotionally unbalanced. What are you really basing that on? It sounds like it's nothing but one short phone call between you and him and scads of information provided to you by your H.

*of course* your H is going to make this guy sounds deranged. Your H is desperately trying to protect his status quo here, and the OW's H is disrupting that. The one way he can prevent that from happening is by discrediting the OW's H with you, and it seems like your H has done just that.

Your H wants to have his cake and eat it, too. He says he can't stop someone from emailing him, but I gather he's responding to the OW's emails? And then he turns around and tells you he doesn't want you to respond to the OW's H's emails? WTF? What's wrong with that picture?

And then he says seeing the OW's H's emails make him feel insecure. Well, boo-hoo. Of course they're going to make him insecure. They scare the crap out of him, because he knows they threaten his status quo.

You know one way your H can make the OW's H stop contacting you? He can, you know, stop communicating with the dude's wife.

Right now, you don't know anything about the OW or her marriage except for what your H tells you. And your husband, as we say in my business, is not exactly a disinterested party. He's going to tell you anything to make himself sound like the innocent party here.

Exercise some healthy skepticism. Investigate things for yourself. Don't let your view of what's really happening be informed by your H, who has already demonstrated that he's a lying cheat.

Lets try to think like a manipulator (I had to do this when my H was in the denial phase):
1. Discredit the person who is feeding you information
2. Force the giver of information and the receiver of the information to break contact.

I choose not to think beyond that. I guess #3 would be lie, deny lie and lie some more

Sad thing is, I think my H is lying to me too, but I have no evidence of this. I feel that he wants me to stop talking to this guy so that he can continue with the other person. But, I also want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I have spoken with this other guy several times, actually. but you're all right. I don't really know him, nor do I have any real desire to know him. The last time we spoke, which was the time before this that he said that the two were still communicating, he told me that he was going to throw out his wife (and rightfully so if she's continuing the contact with my H). Of course, I couldn't offer any advice to him other than to do what he needed to do. Well, I found out that he had packed up all of her stuff and left it on her parents' front porch!

I'm so lost and confused. I hate feeling this way. Normally, I am put together. This has just set me so off balance.

You don't need any evidence of your H's lying. This isn't a court of law.

If anything, his past behavior demands that he prove to you that he's telling the truth, not that you prove to him that he's lying.

It's good that you want to give him the benefit of the doubt. That shows that you still love him and have hope for your marriage. Do you think he deserves that, though? Has he earned it after what he's done?

Put it this way: What if he's still lying? What then? Will you be kicking yourself later when you find out he's still sleeping with this OW? Will you curse yourself and wonder why you took him at face value when ever objective sign indicated that he was lying to you?

Follow up on what the OW's H has said to you. For your own peace of mind, make sure there's nothing to what he says and verify that your H is telling the truth. If he isn't, well, you'll have your confirmation that your H is lying to you and is still cheating on you.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

You're on the second part right now.

Your H has NO right to be livid that OW's husband is emailing you. If there were no OW, then there would be no OW's husband! He opened up this can of worms. Do what you need to do to get the information that you need. I think he's angry because you are finding out what he is doing. No one likes to get busted!

I totally agree with Frank lawyer. It is also a manipulation for him to be snooping into your blackberry and then trying to make you somehow feel bad about the fact that the OWs H is emailing you. My H started snooping into all of my stuff when he was cheating. I guess when they cheat they recognize a whole new side of people and think everyone is doing something wrong. Plus if they can find you doing something wrong they can use that to make themselves feel better (see I'm not the only one who has secrets). Its such a load of crap.

Even if your H isn't still sleeping with her if he is emailing her and talking to her he is still carrying on with her and doing something very damaging to you and your relationship. The biggest part of my H's affair was the attention he received from the OW and not so much the sex. He was willing to let go of the sex, but he just couldn't give up that attention and thus the phone conversations and the emails. It sounds like your H may be in the same boat.

No matter how you slice it it is still betrayal and deception. My H also used the "I can't stop people from calling me and emailing me" excuse. OH YES YOU CAN. Block their calls and emails and do not respond. If they keep it up tell them it is harassment and threaten a restraining order.

Eventually your H will probably tire of it. Mine did, but not before it had continued to do serious damage to our marriage and my view of him. Unfortunately you really can't make him stop. He has to truly want to stop. So what you really have to decide is what you will do if he keeps it up. Can you tolerate it until it burns out or will it eat you alive?. Once you determine that determining what you should do should be pretty clear and it usually comes down to just two things - leave or stay. I stayed, but sometimes wish I hadn't because I feel like I really compromised my standards and my self-respect, but things are getting better now.

Good luck.

I also wanted to add that you should start doing things to beat him at his own game. Can't you password protect your Blackberry so he can't get in there? I started password protecting everything and it drove my H crazy, but too damn bad. Once they break our trust they can't expect that our lives will remain an open book to them while they keep secrets and scream that we are invading their privacy by checking up on them. Let him know how it feels and make him wonder what secrets you may have.

Yeah - so here's the deal... I did have the BB password protected and he raised hell about that. Well, I figured that I didn't really have anything to hide, so after some time I un-protected it. It just so happened that I got an email from this guy yesterday and he started snooping in my phone yesterday while it was charging, and I was giving our son a bath.

Another time, my H dug through my work bag and found a journal that I was keeping and he read it. That was another argument. Yes, I was doing some venting about him in it but where can I vent if not in a journal? AAAAGH!

I would have to agree that he probably can't let go of the attention from the OW. I understand that she really built up his ego and made him feel really good about himself -- telling him things like he's such a great father and I'm so lucky to have him and other things like that.

He's the one that cheated and he's going through YOUR stuff?

That's nice.