Infidelity Support Group
Any relationship in which one partner engages willfully in sexual relations with another outside of the partnership is considered to have experienced infidelity. This breach of trust is often traumatizing for the faithful partner as well as the relationship, and support is often needed to heal emotionally and to decide whether or not the relationship should continue after...
We have been together for almost 2 years - both divorced with 2 kids each. We fell in love quickly and committed to an exclusive relationship early on. Our children (11, 13, 13, 15) get along amazingly well - have vacationed together, and pretty much integrated our families. Given where we are in life - neither of us are interested in casual dating or short term relationships. We've talked about the future, plan together for the kids and by all accounts - are a great couple that love each other.
It never crossed my mind that he would cheat on me. Even though we'd had a few rough patches, we were both pro-actively working on the relationship. Throughout - there was lots of communication, lots of physical affection, our sex life was amazing (and frequent), and we often made plans about the future and kids.
About 3 months ago - there were a few incidents that happen that just didn't feel right. After some hemming and hawing - I checked his FB messages. To be honest, I really didn't expect to find anything (or so I hoped).
So I was shocked when I found out that he'd been messaging #1 (nd ex-lover - and a married woman) daily for the last 8 months, called each other multiples, had gotten together for drinks numerous occasions. I also saw their gmail chats - again, almost daily chats and calls.
Lots of banter, sexting - and talk of getting together and how wonderful it was to see each other, how great each of them smelled, looked. Several times she told him how much she loved him, had always loved him - and he replied similarly. During one of the exchanges, he told her that they would be together if it weren't for 'complications'.
It stunned me because he and I saw each other almost everyday during that time, so I had no clue that he was getting together with her. I though he'd just gone home. But they would meet late at night - after he left my place, or when he had his kids with him - he would go out after they went to bed. She knew he was with him - and appears to have been his confidant for complaining about what was wrong with our relationship.
I confronted him with what I saw and his initial reaction was anger that I'd invaded his privacy and looked through his emails and chats (he was blackmailed once in the past by someone who tracked his emails so he's super sensitive about this). I admitted I was in the wrong and apologized - but said that we needed to separate what I did from how he was with this woman.
At first he denied it all. Said they'd only chatted a few times, didn't really go out that much. When I told him what I'd read - especially about the two of them being in love, he brushed it off and said I was taking it out of context - that he didn't say that.
He also accused me of violating his trust and privacy and said he didn't know if he could trust me again. That night he called the ex to let her know that I'd read the emails. He told me this (was still furious) and asked me to not tell her husband because they have a child. He said I could be as angry as I wanted with him and take everything out on him - but to please not involve the other woman's family.
Long story short, he - of his own accord - did realize that what he did was inappropriate and wrong and that he'd hurt our relationship. He agreed to give up his friendship with this woman and not be in contact with her again. We discussed that he would tell her that he and I were going to work on our relationship and that how he acted with her was inappropriate. That was enough for me - I didn't feel the need to push for a complete blackout - they were still friends on FB.
It's been a rough 3 months - but we are committed, still planning the future, still loving each other. He was incredibly attentive and present. And I worked on my issues as well - tried to back away from wanting to know who he was talking to every second, who he was chatting with. All of a sudden, I was suspicious about all of his FB chats (both of us are online a lot becuase of the nature of our work).
During that time, we also renewed out commitment to be monogamous in our relationship. Even though we'd discussed it, neither of us were interested in an open relationship. He said he was committed to us, our children, and that he promised to tell me if he felt like he was getting involved or attached with another woman. The honesty was what I was craving for. I can deal with almost anything as long as I have faith that there is full disclosure.
After 3 months, I feel like we're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I was ready to put the chapter behind me and work on rebuilding out relationship and having fun together again. During this time - there were numerous times where he would tell me that I'm the only one for him, that he wasn't interested or pursuing any other woman. That it was just me and our family.
During this time, he did start locking his computer more and more. Which did raise my suspicions. I will admit that I did check his FB and google chats when he forgot to lock things up and didn't find anything suspicious. It did seem like he was keeping his word about not being in contact with the Ex.
Then an incident happened where they had long, open banter, on his facebook page. Raised my suspicions again. I asked and he said it was nothing - I was okay with that, didn't really expect to ban people from talking to you on social media. Turns out they had also privately chatted a few times after that - which he didn't mention. When I asked him about it, he admitted it and said it was nothing, just a quick hi. That he hadn't been in contact with her for months.
I was unconvinced. The next the computer was unlocked and he was away, I looked at the chats and he was right. It was nothing - just a quick hi. She did invite him out the next day - but he declined (tho' he did indicate he'd love to but couldn't because he was in the middle of a report for work). There was no more contact after that.
I had to admit. I felt pretty ashamed of myself for not trusting him and his efforts.
When I was about to leave though, I saw his gmail open and in the sent folder recognized the name of another former lover, #2. I was surprised because they were together in 2008 (they were both married as well, in the same industry, and met during trade shows.. He'd told me about her before and I didn't think much of it. She lives in California and we are in Canada. (#1 is in the same city as us).
The one email led to a discovery of over a year's worth of emails back and forth. Almost all the emails are about how much he loves her and misses her, how she is the only true love for him, how he loves her more and more each day, and how he will always wait for her. He's sent her presents, and named his new company after her pets (I did not know that).
He also invited her to join him for a long vacation in April, as well as invited her on 2-3 other trips with him. She couldn't go on any of them because of her work schedule. It's clear from the email that she loves him too. And he continues to extend invitations for her to meet him on his business trips - that he would stay longer if she could meet him. The funny this is - on all his trips, we talk/text daily - it just never occurred to me that he was texting other women as well.
I was stunned (again) as I did NOT expect there to be #1, or another ex-lover in the picture. Especially after we'd just spent 3 painful months sloshing through the first one - and he kept reassuring me that there was no one else. That he was not telling any other women he loved them.
This was about 5 days ago. He doesn't know that I've seen the emails and have copies of them. I pulled away for a couple of days - just to regroup and see how I want to approach this.
When we reconnected, in a conversation, I brought up #2's name and asked if he was in touch with her. He appeared genuinely surprised - and said no, that was a long time ago and is over. He has no idea where she is or even how to get in contact with her. I asked if he loved still loved her. He looked me straight in the eye - and said no, he does not - he only loves me and wants our relationship to work.
He did ask where this was coming from - again seemingly genuinely puzzled. I wasn't ready to disclose that I'd seen the emails yet, so I just said I'd been thinking about the last few months and because of #1, #2 came to mind.
I'm crushed that there was Another woman - and that he was telling her he loved her and she was the only one for him for over a year! I'm sure #2 doesn't know about #1. And I'm not sure if #1 knows about me. In the 12+ months of emails, there was no mention of his children - just talk of their love for each other, her dogs, and very brief mentions of her job and his new business. No sexting or sexual innuendos of any sort - very different from the interactions with #1.
And yet, even with all this - I am torn. I still love him, love his family, love his kids - and he has been wonderful with my children as well. And I'm angry with myself for feeling this way.
I just don't see how this can be salvaged though. I don't think he'll admit to anything I tell him I have copies of their emails.
What I want more than anything is for him to just tell me the truth. I could have handled him being in love with someone else - and I would have been willing to find a way to work through it. And the last 3 months seems to provide the perfect opportunity for him to do that. We had SO many discussions about cheating, emotional affairs, being completely truthful with each other. And each time we talked about this - he would get incredibly passionate and tell me he's monogamous and the most loyal person he knows.
He claims he never slept with #1 - that they always got together in public places. Honestly, I don't care if they did or not. It was the 8 months of cover-ups and dishonesty that violated our trust.
I'm not angry with the other women - he CAN be very charming, and loving, and when you are the object of his affection, you feel like a queen. He is attentive, thoughtful, and kind. When crossed though - his anger and race can be frightening (I've felt scared but never physically threatened).
I've spent the first few days crying and being pissed off. But mostly, I've just been exhausted - the though of hashing through this for another 3 months just makes me want to collapse.
I have to admit that if I tell him I found the emails with #2, he'll be furious. All I want is for him to just come clean - but I am realizing that that is probably wishful thinking.
And yes, there's a part of me that is racking my brains - trying to make excuses for his behavior and deception and wondering how we can work through this.
*sigh*
It never crossed my mind that he would cheat on me. Even though we'd had a few rough patches, we were both pro-actively working on the relationship. Throughout - there was lots of communication, lots of physical affection, our sex life was amazing (and frequent), and we often made plans about the future and kids.
About 3 months ago - there were a few incidents that happen that just didn't feel right. After some hemming and hawing - I checked his FB messages. To be honest, I really didn't expect to find anything (or so I hoped).
So I was shocked when I found out that he'd been messaging #1 (nd ex-lover - and a married woman) daily for the last 8 months, called each other multiples, had gotten together for drinks numerous occasions. I also saw their gmail chats - again, almost daily chats and calls.
Lots of banter, sexting - and talk of getting together and how wonderful it was to see each other, how great each of them smelled, looked. Several times she told him how much she loved him, had always loved him - and he replied similarly. During one of the exchanges, he told her that they would be together if it weren't for 'complications'.
It stunned me because he and I saw each other almost everyday during that time, so I had no clue that he was getting together with her. I though he'd just gone home. But they would meet late at night - after he left my place, or when he had his kids with him - he would go out after they went to bed. She knew he was with him - and appears to have been his confidant for complaining about what was wrong with our relationship.
I confronted him with what I saw and his initial reaction was anger that I'd invaded his privacy and looked through his emails and chats (he was blackmailed once in the past by someone who tracked his emails so he's super sensitive about this). I admitted I was in the wrong and apologized - but said that we needed to separate what I did from how he was with this woman.
At first he denied it all. Said they'd only chatted a few times, didn't really go out that much. When I told him what I'd read - especially about the two of them being in love, he brushed it off and said I was taking it out of context - that he didn't say that.
He also accused me of violating his trust and privacy and said he didn't know if he could trust me again. That night he called the ex to let her know that I'd read the emails. He told me this (was still furious) and asked me to not tell her husband because they have a child. He said I could be as angry as I wanted with him and take everything out on him - but to please not involve the other woman's family.
Long story short, he - of his own accord - did realize that what he did was inappropriate and wrong and that he'd hurt our relationship. He agreed to give up his friendship with this woman and not be in contact with her again. We discussed that he would tell her that he and I were going to work on our relationship and that how he acted with her was inappropriate. That was enough for me - I didn't feel the need to push for a complete blackout - they were still friends on FB.
It's been a rough 3 months - but we are committed, still planning the future, still loving each other. He was incredibly attentive and present. And I worked on my issues as well - tried to back away from wanting to know who he was talking to every second, who he was chatting with. All of a sudden, I was suspicious about all of his FB chats (both of us are online a lot becuase of the nature of our work).
During that time, we also renewed out commitment to be monogamous in our relationship. Even though we'd discussed it, neither of us were interested in an open relationship. He said he was committed to us, our children, and that he promised to tell me if he felt like he was getting involved or attached with another woman. The honesty was what I was craving for. I can deal with almost anything as long as I have faith that there is full disclosure.
After 3 months, I feel like we're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I was ready to put the chapter behind me and work on rebuilding out relationship and having fun together again. During this time - there were numerous times where he would tell me that I'm the only one for him, that he wasn't interested or pursuing any other woman. That it was just me and our family.
During this time, he did start locking his computer more and more. Which did raise my suspicions. I will admit that I did check his FB and google chats when he forgot to lock things up and didn't find anything suspicious. It did seem like he was keeping his word about not being in contact with the Ex.
Then an incident happened where they had long, open banter, on his facebook page. Raised my suspicions again. I asked and he said it was nothing - I was okay with that, didn't really expect to ban people from talking to you on social media. Turns out they had also privately chatted a few times after that - which he didn't mention. When I asked him about it, he admitted it and said it was nothing, just a quick hi. That he hadn't been in contact with her for months.
I was unconvinced. The next the computer was unlocked and he was away, I looked at the chats and he was right. It was nothing - just a quick hi. She did invite him out the next day - but he declined (tho' he did indicate he'd love to but couldn't because he was in the middle of a report for work). There was no more contact after that.
I had to admit. I felt pretty ashamed of myself for not trusting him and his efforts.
When I was about to leave though, I saw his gmail open and in the sent folder recognized the name of another former lover, #2. I was surprised because they were together in 2008 (they were both married as well, in the same industry, and met during trade shows.. He'd told me about her before and I didn't think much of it. She lives in California and we are in Canada. (#1 is in the same city as us).
The one email led to a discovery of over a year's worth of emails back and forth. Almost all the emails are about how much he loves her and misses her, how she is the only true love for him, how he loves her more and more each day, and how he will always wait for her. He's sent her presents, and named his new company after her pets (I did not know that).
He also invited her to join him for a long vacation in April, as well as invited her on 2-3 other trips with him. She couldn't go on any of them because of her work schedule. It's clear from the email that she loves him too. And he continues to extend invitations for her to meet him on his business trips - that he would stay longer if she could meet him. The funny this is - on all his trips, we talk/text daily - it just never occurred to me that he was texting other women as well.
I was stunned (again) as I did NOT expect there to be #1, or another ex-lover in the picture. Especially after we'd just spent 3 painful months sloshing through the first one - and he kept reassuring me that there was no one else. That he was not telling any other women he loved them.
This was about 5 days ago. He doesn't know that I've seen the emails and have copies of them. I pulled away for a couple of days - just to regroup and see how I want to approach this.
When we reconnected, in a conversation, I brought up #2's name and asked if he was in touch with her. He appeared genuinely surprised - and said no, that was a long time ago and is over. He has no idea where she is or even how to get in contact with her. I asked if he loved still loved her. He looked me straight in the eye - and said no, he does not - he only loves me and wants our relationship to work.
He did ask where this was coming from - again seemingly genuinely puzzled. I wasn't ready to disclose that I'd seen the emails yet, so I just said I'd been thinking about the last few months and because of #1, #2 came to mind.
I'm crushed that there was Another woman - and that he was telling her he loved her and she was the only one for him for over a year! I'm sure #2 doesn't know about #1. And I'm not sure if #1 knows about me. In the 12+ months of emails, there was no mention of his children - just talk of their love for each other, her dogs, and very brief mentions of her job and his new business. No sexting or sexual innuendos of any sort - very different from the interactions with #1.
And yet, even with all this - I am torn. I still love him, love his family, love his kids - and he has been wonderful with my children as well. And I'm angry with myself for feeling this way.
I just don't see how this can be salvaged though. I don't think he'll admit to anything I tell him I have copies of their emails.
What I want more than anything is for him to just tell me the truth. I could have handled him being in love with someone else - and I would have been willing to find a way to work through it. And the last 3 months seems to provide the perfect opportunity for him to do that. We had SO many discussions about cheating, emotional affairs, being completely truthful with each other. And each time we talked about this - he would get incredibly passionate and tell me he's monogamous and the most loyal person he knows.
He claims he never slept with #1 - that they always got together in public places. Honestly, I don't care if they did or not. It was the 8 months of cover-ups and dishonesty that violated our trust.
I'm not angry with the other women - he CAN be very charming, and loving, and when you are the object of his affection, you feel like a queen. He is attentive, thoughtful, and kind. When crossed though - his anger and race can be frightening (I've felt scared but never physically threatened).
I've spent the first few days crying and being pissed off. But mostly, I've just been exhausted - the though of hashing through this for another 3 months just makes me want to collapse.
I have to admit that if I tell him I found the emails with #2, he'll be furious. All I want is for him to just come clean - but I am realizing that that is probably wishful thinking.
And yes, there's a part of me that is racking my brains - trying to make excuses for his behavior and deception and wondering how we can work through this.
*sigh*
Much strength and peace to you moving forward.
We've been talking for the past couple of days - and I have to admit, it's probably the most honest we've been with each other in almost a year.
It was also the first time where he finally, fully accepted responsibility for the cheating - did not try to shift blame, did not pretend it was anything else, did not try to justify it, and fully disclosed things that he didn't know I knew - but shared them of his own accord. In the past, it'd felt like he would only "confess' after he'd been caught. And he acknowledged that was he was acting like an asshole, defensive, and not accepting responsibility.
He has offered to open up all his accounts - computers, FB, chats, emails - anything I'd like to see. He's said he will continue to keep talking about it, or answering any questions. If there's any other women I have concerns about, he'll open up all those chats and emails as well.
He also said he will tell the 2 women that he is ending the relationship and that I would have final approval over the content/tone/text of the messages he tells the women. He will go full NC - delete them from FB, or anywhere else I want in order to rebuild trust.
In the last couple of days - he's already left his computers, phones unlocked - and when I've had questions, he's offered for us to go and look at his emails, chats, etc.
He said he's been reading a lot of articles on reconciliation and rebuilding after affairs and recognized that he was wrong and that if there is going to be any chance for us, he would have to be brutually honest and open - even if it still means that I walk away.
When I went to his place last night, I saw that there were indeed articles on rebuilding after affairs at his place. (and not, they did not seem staged because he didn't know I was going there).
I have to be honest and say - that I did not expect this at all. I know that this side for deep reflection and change exists with him becuase I've seen it before in the past. But he seemed to be so entrenched in his position of privacy a few weeks ago, that I didn't think there would be a chance for us.
The other thing I found out - is that he actually admitted to a couple of mutual friends that he had cheated on me, and was wrong, and there was nothing justifiable about his behaviour.
I believe he is being honest and sincere. I am not feeling any pressure to get back together. He has not tried to blame me once for his actions and behaviors in our talks. Nor has he pressured me to make a decision. On the contrary - he has said he would totally understand if I still wanted the relationship to be over - because of the cheating.
Of course, there is a part of me that is scared and wonders if I'm being duped again.
But I also feel like - as long as he is fully willing to go through with the actions that support his promises (e.g. opening up all accounts, etc) - I would ultimately regret it if I didn't give us another change.
I am trying to be as clear with myself as I can be - also recognizing that we do have to take risks in life sometimes.
Am open to hearing thoughts, feedback, questions I may have missed on this?
You are codependent - narcissistic people tend to target codependent people. Magnetic attraction.
You display also some interesting ways of reacting to some things - almost like you yourself don't have a spine. You want him to come clean and if he does, that's all you need and you are willing to work through everything - he knows how you will respond to his actions, manipulates you. Why do you need someone to come clean when you have so much evidence in front of you? What difference does it makes all the promises he makes when he keeps breaking them? - but you don't see this because you don't see YOU. You want so badly to have him that you are willing to tolerate anything. You won't leave till he lives you lifeless almost.
Very interesting what he does, opens all his emails/accounts for you to see, tells others he was wrong for cheating, reads up on rebuilding, etc - etc - More interesting the spell he has on you that he gets to play the same game over and over and you fall for it.
Yea, you should seek counseling because there is a lot off about your story. The mind is fascinating and very interesting how people act when they want what they want. The price we are willing to pay - give up peace chasing people - very interesting indeed.
1. Take it slow. He's got to earn your trust back, which will take months. Don't make any commitments you're not comfortable with. Start back as if dating for the first time.
2. As I said before, ignore words and only evaluate him on actions. He's saying a lot of the right things. Will he follow through consistently over the next few months, or will it only last as long as he thinks it needs to to win you back? It will take time of him doing the right things to know which way it will go. You'll want to see permanent change before you commit to him again.
3. Pay attention to your gut. You don't want to police him, but if something doesn't feel right, check it out. If he's at it again, you'll want to know.
4. During this time, keep your options open. Decide ahead of time how you will respond if you discover another incident, and keep yourself financially in a position to execute it should you need to. It wouldn't be a bad idea for him to know if your response will be to leave, might keep him on his toes.
Your risk is high for being cheated on again. I don't know if you're being co-dependent or not. Or whether he's narcissistic or not. I don't think any of us have enough info to make that determination. That said, talk to your therapist and read up on it in case it is the case. The more info you have the better.
That said, people can change. Maybe your efforts to go NC with him have brought him to his senses. The big question is whether any of it will stick, will he do the hard things to make core changes in his life and how he deals with relationships.
Bottom line, you have a decision to make. Either one is a valid route as long as you go into it with your eyes wide open. Rebuilding is hard work,especially for him. There are more ways it can go wrong than right. But when it goes right, it has a reward you can't get any other way. The more the struggle, the greater the reward when successful. And the worse it will feel if it fails. That's the risk.
Only you know your situation well enough to make that call. No one, apparently even him, will fault you if you leave him. Nor should anyone fault you if you decide to stay and work through it if he's investing himself in the process.
I'd recommend you both read through "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. So he will get a clear picture of what he is committing to do, and you'll know what to watch for in evaluating whether it is going well or not.
Then if you both decide to rebuild, put the ball in his court. It will be time for him to put up or shut up.
Howcanthisbe made an accurate assessment, he is a charmer and his charm is a way of manipulating you and others in his life, and he is now working his wizardry to further manipulate you.
What he's done for you-opening up his emails etc.-is what he has read in his reconciliation books. It's a no-brainer, and it's his attempt at getting you back under his blackened wings. He will more than likely pick it up again once the coast is clear. He is saying and doing what he has to in order to get you back into his life: typical narcissistic personality disorder.
Can you truly believe anything this man says when he's repeatedly lied to you, denied his involvement with number two and now number three? That doesn't go away by reading books, it's a behaviour that he's learned and would require years of therapy to undo.
Once you have separated yourself from him for a good period of time, as in months, you will start to believe in yourself and realize that he is not worthy of your attention. Think of your child and the example you would be setting by taking him back.
I wish you strength and perseverance.
I do understand the risks involved here and the potential for more hurt later on - if there is another incident.
At this point though - we are progressing slowly and Cole's advice is dead-on. Everything has to be backed up by concrete behaviours - not just promises. The ongoing litmus test continues to be full disclosure and access to all areas of his life and accounts - as well as full disclosure about the affair and cheating to those in our circles that are important to me/us.
Thus far:
1. He's openly admitted to cheating to his mom and some mutual friends (these were the ones I agonized whether to tell or not). He fully agreed to it - recognized it was part of our healing and trust-building, and was the one to tell them (and yes, used the words 'I cheated). To me, this is a huge step.
2. All accounts, computer, email, etc. - have stayed opened and unlocked. I am encouraged to look whenever I have any questions or doubts - even if he is there or not. Any questions I have asked - have been promptly answered, without anger, blame - and will full responsibility for his cheating.
3. The emails ending the affairs were clear, direct - stated that he cheated on me, loved me and was committed to rebuilding our relationship, ended the relationship - and asked them to never contact him again. He got one response - he called me as soon as it came it and we read the response together, then deleted it.
4. We have been going through His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters by (Williard Harley) - both excellent books. Highly highly recommended. Harley is pretty blunt - so sometimes, not the easiest to read - for the cheater or the betrayed. The discussions have been happening with brutal honesty and zero anger.
5. He fully supports my right to tell anyone I want to about the cheating (also something Harley says in Love Busters). There has been no blame, shaming, or anger if I mention people that I'd like to share what's happened with. He has also committed to him being the one to tell about the cheating - if that is important to me.
6. Along with accounts, all his calendars (including his children's) have been shared with me. I get regular updates on where is his - if plans have changed. When he is coming back, etc.
7. Witnessing the changes in other areas of his life - e.g. how he runs his business, how he talks to his friends, and his children. This probably has been the most heartening of all. If the changes were only directed towards me - I would be way more suspicious. But the changes and movement towards more honest, transparency, and openness is something that he's started doing with his business associates and other family members as well (and this is happening not only when I am around).
In a nutshell - I do trust my gut and think there is some internal transformation and shifts happening for him. And yes, he is doing all the things I would expect from someone committed to rectifying the wrongs of betrayal.
What gives me hope is seeing all the external behaviour changes in the other areas of this life.
I do realize that there is still a long road ahead of us - with bumps as well. But I am truly at peace with the process we're following with the His Needs, Her Needs book.
His Needs, Her Needs was also instrumental in our own rebuilding. Lately we've been reading his Surviving and Affair book to see if we can recommend it as well. So far, I'm on board with him, save a point or two.
I get being afraid to be alone. Anyone who has been through a break up or divorce gets that; but trust me there are far worse things than being alone.
Consider this: there is no such thing as true transparency in this current electronic world. He gave you access to all of his old accounts. Who is to say he hasn't created new ones? I would not trust this guy at all based on his history and the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
I know this isn't what you want to hear but I promise you this guy is only telling you what you want to hear and I think you've had enough of that.
Good luck
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