cmonge:
I suppose your husband will soon be moving out. In my case, the terms and objective of the separation were not established from the outset and that added to the discomfort of it all. He moved out suddenly and THEN tried to articulate things...did a poor job. He just kept saying he was sick of himself . At first I believed the objective was so he could have space to be with the OW. Perhaps that was part of it but after a while it didn't matter to me what the object was. All I knew was that MY objective was to be free and happy and that was when I made the appointment with the lawyer.

I hope you guys can have some dialogue before he goes, so you both know how you will be operating during the separation. In my case, I didn't call him unless it had something to do with the boys or bills! He continued to mow our lawn and keep the garden, on Sundays. He doesn't cook, so sometimes after seeing him work so hard, I would offer him a meal, but there was nothing special about that. I would do the same for a gardener. I only allowed him in the garden because I didn't want to pay a gardener. I was already paying the mortgage and utilities all by myself. Besides, we still shared ownership of the property. But I had made it clear that after the divorce he would not be allowed around. My No 1 rule was that he was not allowed to touch me in any form. For the entire separation I only allowed him to touch me once in an unavoidable situation. He collected my son from school and sometimes he would want to see me. He understood clearly that he was not allowed to barge into my bedroom. He had to knock and wait. I was not hostile towards him, but not friendly either....no smiles at all for him ( I am smiley type). Just civil.

Cmonge. You will make your own rules. But whatever you do, please don't get mushy with him. And don't beg for anything. Show him strength even if you don't have it yet. Let him see it won't be business as usual. The days and nights ahead will be rough, but peace is coming. Just focus on it. My prayers are with you. Cheers.

Chances are be will initialy react to a seoeration like a fat kis in a cake shop. Eventually it gets real okd and his belly will get sick. The boy will grow hungry for nutrients and meaningful food.

Its at that pint between indulgence and emptiness where he will begin to see what he wants from himself and life.

There is little you can do except to work on nurturing yourself and being self reliant. Sticking around means accepting more of the same cheating and lying behavior.

he finally has a place. he said he layed down on the empty apartment floor and cried for over an hour. I was secretly glad inside. But he has not slept well in 3 weeks, so i am worried he will have a breakdown. But, hey, that;s his problem, right? thanks for all the encouragement, because I do get mushy when I see him so distraught. He finally texted me yesterday saying he knows he must go get more counseling. he has been saying he can't bear to live without me, but no plans for how to change things. Obviously trying to change on his own has not been successful.

Just today his friend offered him his deceased fathr's fully furnished house, so he won't be in the sad, empty apartment, which is financially much better, but it might make his environment a bit too cushy. I don't want him completely comfortable.
He has said he will do anything around the house that needs doing, and I am tempted to take him up on that, but just yesterday I hung my bike up on the ceiling rack of the garage - something I always thought I wasn't strong enough to do. guess what, I can learn to be independent again. I do know that seeing him makes me vulnerable and want to touch him, but he asked if he could touch me the other day and I said "No!". I am not mean, just trying to be civil also. Thank you thank you all.

Cmonge,

For this separation to really work, to give you the possibility of his wanting to change, you need to radically change how your being loving, understanding, and nice is enabling him.

Do not allow him the forum to tell you he is distraught, is upset, etc. Also, save yourself the frustration of hearing this and being so confused afterwards. Its going to take a toll on you.

Tell him something like, you have chosen to separate from me so you do not get to have the benefits of thinking you can call me and get emotional support anytime you so desire. Separation from me means separation from me. I deserve to be treated better than this. I no longer want to hear how your feeling, how its going, that you need more counseling etc. Please only email or text me if we need to discuss kids or money. If you have come to some great insight and want to discuss our relationship going forward, be damn sure you have figured it out and schedule a date with me, and if I am available I will consider it. In the mean time, good luck to you and give me my space.

See the offers to help with the house and his desire to talk with you are all so that he can look himself in the mirror, and say to himself, well we are at least still friends, I am helping out, and there is a life-line connected, so it is OK to keep doing what I am doing.

Cut the life line.

You can do it! You do deserve better.

PS. Good for you for telling him "no'!

Wow, this conversation has been a great read. There is so much to be gains by following all if your journey's. Thanks so much for posting and for the advice.

I don't know if anything I have to say helps, but my long story short is that the separation thus far has helped me start to become detached from my H of 10+ years. We've been together 15. The hardest part is not seeing our families as much as we did before and we have a young son who still wonders about the it since we never fought.

My H has been out of the house since February, and its taken until a couple of weeks ago for me to feel better about the circumstances. Initially, we talked formal separation, now we're talking divorce. That was actally his idea, which I said OK to. However, he has yet to come forward with a formal plan. He is somewhat of a procrastinator when faced with serious issues. I am in no hurry to finalize because I don't feel he has dealt with his side of things as he declined counseling. The truth of his A came out 6 months ago. The OW went back to her H. Now he's out and alone.

I had hoped we could rebuild, but he still has feelings for the OW. I couldn't stand to look at him the month before we separated. He says his heart is not in it to rebuild. That's all I had to hear and what a relief now. In our conversations since we only talk about our son and what to do with our finances, the house, etc.

One statement I made to him that I replay in my head is that he will never be able to hurt me again to make himself feel better. Essentially, that is what the affair did.

All the best to you cmonge in your own recovery and personal rebuilding.

Let him go! He is a repeat offender, so he will probably never stop. They get a rush from it, and they will keep going back for more. They are addicts like drug addicts, but their drug is the chemicals that their body releases when they cheat.

Walk away and find someone worth putting time into.

@cmonge

Well, girl face the facts, and the sooner you do the better!

1. He's a repeat offender, for sure, we know that!
2. His crying, lack of sleep, lack of eating, etc. don't seem to make a bit of difference if he.....
3. Continued to text his bimbo, so....
4. That means he lies, lies, lies, even to himself, but especially to you!


I agree, what's the point of the charade, and "fake" love he's giving you???? Is that true remorse??? Not in my book!!! However, it may mean a true "addiction", which is a controversial topic, in itself!

I mean, I really can't prove it, but apparently this topic has gotten a lot of press, seems to be legit amongst marriage/family/relationship counselors. But it is what it is! He has a lack of saying no, to other women's V!!! Pure and simple! And he seems to be very interested in counseling ONLY after you find out! Sorry, but that doesn't seem sincere to me, or have a genuine remorse response!

It concerns me, that he plays "the victim" to you, which you are definitely enabling, which is dysfunctional, and a form of "co-dependency". Your boundaries and his are so intertwined, to a point that he thinks it's okay, to lie to you, be secretive, get his jollies elsewhere, risk all kind of VD's and passing them on to you....

all the while he's in fantasy land, and being delusional. He disregards all that crap, and then in his warped, broken, little-boy way, want you to be his mama and rescue him, be on his side, his friend/therapist to listen to his plethora of crap, and it is a huge mountain.....for sure. He expects you to disregard any hurt from his lies, deception, and "cocky" ways, both using his C, as well as thinking it's okay to repeat and repeat, and rinse, and wash, as if we're talking about a shampoo, here!!! Just absolutely ridiculous.

We all already know that many serial cheaters, are insecure, and seem to have to seek love, inappropriately, look for love in all the wrong places, and don't really look at the root cause. There are billions of people who didn't have a nurturing upbringing, or who may have been neglected, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. I get that, and that oftentimes is a huge root of the problem, however, with that all said.....many of those children grow up to be adults who don't get thicker into the problem and land up sicker. Some actually learn, about themselves, learn how to nurture themselves, learn how to take responsibility, and really learn and grow, and, as a result become mature, in both giving and receiving love.

Your H, my friend, seems to be a huge receiver, but not very efficient in the "giving" department. Oftentimes, people land up, thinking that they "deserve happiness" and are entitled to anything and everything, which they think makes them happy, including getting all the gusto, sex, and attention....Some aren't even aware of it! Could be a poor coping mechanism, trying to fill the "hole in their soul". But it's a huge lie, based on faulty thinking, and the perception, along with beliefs that this will make them happy.

When it all boils down to it, a mature, reciprocal relationship is more likely to make a couple happy, then one which is so "off-balanced" to the point, of huge obvious flaws, huge consistent lies, loss of trust, taking all the time, and not giving, and not being honest with oneself, not taking ownership, not taking charge of doing the work, the counseling, the reading, the honest exchange of communication w/ self or spouse!

Sorry, but he sounds like his emotional growth was thwarted, forgot the name, but there was a show, about this....oh, Arrested Development! He needs to heal himself, which will only come about from an in depth analysis/professional help, counseling, as to why and how he got this way, as well as to determine when he stopped maturing, and then to learn to start growing up in little baby steps. But if he has never been introspective, and never done the work....well he'll stay the same, most likely.

It's easy to get sick, and get attn. like a little child does, easy to cry and want Mama's attn., love and approval, I get all that! But you aren't his Mama, and he's not the victim. And if he has narcissistic traits, or personality, then it runs much deeper. Coming from a tricky childhood, I get that,...I get that many of us were so broken, that it's all about us, all about what we want, all about trying to find the illusive happiness, which we never had, in our families....

But there comes a time and a place, where we need to step back, and learn about life, and that it really is a give and take. That true agape love means we both give and receive, we make some sacrifices (which won't necessarily be ones where we are taken advantage of, and aren't against our own basic beliefs, or then we are betraying ourselves, and that's unhealthy and defeats the purpose anyway). We make sacrifices which are in tune with our not going to hurt us, and are in alignment with our basic moral values about life. Not sacrifices which mean we put up, or shut up, or are doormats, and neglected, and ignored, and not even a consideration, or somebody's 2nd choice. BS!!! In a true agape relationship, we are the first choice, especially when there's a family established with children, etc.

Well, hope I addressed your question! Yes, he needs to be out and on his own, and if he utilizes this time to play, and not do the work, then is he really a good partner for you? Or does it go against your grains, and against what you believe to be healthy, and good for you and your kids? I mean, kids learn what they see, so is that a role model, and deep philosophy you want to engrain into their cores? Cuz, it does run deep!

And read up a little on Narcissistic Personality Disorder/tendencies, and see if you think he fits the profile. One does not have to be an abuser to do so. But many people do agree, and believe that consistent, sexual infidelity, is certainly a form of mental abuse. But what matters here most, is what you believe.

Oh, there's a site, I recently discovered, I think it's called "Chump" something or another, which a woman developed, and it's more geared towards people who have had enough, and decided they're done being the "chump", and are getting support from others, who are "mad as hell, and not gonna take it anymore". You might find it interesting reading, even if you haven't made up your mind, yet!

But his serial cheating needs to be addressed, cuz that means it is far more involved than a spouse who has done it once or twice. Habits die hard! Good luck, cmonge, and I hope it has given ya food for thought!

But may I suggest? Don't try to be his "savior, fixer, consoler, etc", cuz that is very co-dependent, and could very well reinforce the same ol behavior, and doesn't fix a damned thing. And he needs tough love, tough honesty, and time to be responsible, accountable, and time for him to delve deeply into the past, and what all got him this way. Don't get me wrong! I'm not trying to make excuses for him, (cuz there probably are some folks out there who cheat, cuz they can, and will get away with it, even having had a somewhat normal childhood). But, on the other hand, I'm trying to refrain from being judgmental, and demonize him, cuz it's apparent that you have loved him sooooo dang much, you put him first! And when we do that, nothing good comes out of it, except they know they are first, and we are playing into their own original weakness, that life is all about them, and no one else, and that's part of the problem, not the solution. Sounds admirable, sure, sounds loving, and sacrificial, sure.....but more what we do for kids, who aren't equipped, as opposed to husbands who are not supposed to be our kids, not anymore! Good luck again, and God bless!

Blonde gal,

Thanks so much for taking time to give such a thoughtful response. Definitely not narcissistic, but very immature. Always has been..arrested development is accurate, possible "hole in the soul" always refers to his mothers death changing him, but come on, he was a 38 year old adult at the time. I think having some faith in God would be a huge help in dealing with death and in sticking to fidelity!! I am a very faithful catholic. He is completely un educated about any form of faith. Yes, that is a Difference between us. He's been put of house for a few days. I'm doing pretty good.

Cmonge,

You are so very welcome! Glad to see some points were acknowledged, and also gave you some food for thought!

Just want to wish you a little peace and serenity, amongst the midst of the chaos, which is innate in a situation like this.

The sooner he addresses his deeper issues, the better! Again, hope you take care of yourself, and don't forget to do a little something special for yourself, as you are your own best friend now! Take care, and take it easy!

And I would highly encourage him to stay out of the house for about a 3 week period. Honestly, it will probably help him tremendously.

He needs to get a huge wake up call, and if it's only a short duration, he doesn't get to experience fully how it could possibly be for him. I think he needs a duration, and a little fear, to shake him up, and really make him consider changing his ways. If may not be comfortable for either of you, granted, but it's almost a necessity, to shake him out of this "fog state" , and delusional, in thinking that his loving wife loves him so much, that she will endure any kind of disrespect, and not even consider some kind of moral compass.

Who knows, if he does change, with some therapy, maybe he will even investigate some kind of spirituality, regardless if it involves an organized religion or not. But if he gives up on all of this, and on himself, can you really feel guilty? I mean he has to be responsible for himself, now, as he is a full-grown adult, otherwise you will risk making him more co-dependent, and may not knowingly be reinforcing his immature behavior or "arrested development". He needs to start a whole new concept, if he wants you, he needs to respect you, and himself. And he needs to quit trying to make you his "mama", and consider you as an equal partner, who expects him to do his part too!

When he tells you what a "piece of shit" he is, tell him it is so! Tell him that's why he needs to get a moral compass, and get on his knees to ask God for forgiveness, and then you, for his forgiveness.

Remind him that he is also letting the kids down, and that is not acceptable behavior for a "dedicated father". He needs to see how he has impacted everyone negatively, time and time again.

If he keeps on getting more chances, he will repeat, most likely, cuz he has not a darn thing to lose! Stay serious, keep it tough love, and keep strong. He needs to commit to something, or he commits to nothing! He's either a part of the solution, or he continues the problem. Must be tough, must be straight-forward, and only say what you can follow-thru with. Too many people here have threatened things, backed down, and continue to live in hell years later. He needs to know you are dead serious, and will follow thru w/ what you say! Cuz apparently he doesn't, does he????

Cmonge, \
I read all your journals, and commented on them for you, too! It helped getting a little background! Have a decent weekend!