And, yes, when I engaged in those behaviors I knew they're wrong, which brought shame, which ALWAYS powers the cycle of addiction.

That shame also came into play around my A eventually but, in the beginning, I felt it was keeping me alive when otherwise dead seemed like a good, painless option.

It's crazy because I have really strong feelings against suicide, not on moral or religious grounds but because of howvthe pain gets left toothed loved ones. Like 'here's this pain that is too great for me to bear. You have it. I'm out' I didn't see how my A would have an equal effect until it was too late. I wish I had listened to people in CA who tried to warn me :(

*to the*, not toothed. Auto correct bites.

Onyx, you said something that I relate to: "when someone gambles or does drugs - its very clear that person is doing things that they shouldnt be do - but when someone cheats - its as if they are doing something so cruel to the person they are suppose to love - that even if its low selfesteem or an addiction - its so personal to the BS that it takes everyone down mentally. Like maybe the BS did something to cause this and that is why some BS let the CS keep cheating. They feel like that did something to provoke this behaviour."

That is exactly how I felt, and why I couldn't wrap my head around my H swearing his undying love for me while at the same time capable of betraying me like that. It took a solid year in counseling, with both the IC and the MC telling me that his affairs had virtually nothing to do with me, before I "got it".

It's a tough pill to swallow.

As to the death of the family, that's one of the primary reasons I committed to reconciliation. I divorced my children's father, and when H came along, it was a slow integration into our family. He is now an amazing stepfather (all the kids, even though they are grown and were teenagers when he came into the picture, consider him their parent), and an even more amazing grandparent. I didn't want to destroy the family.

Now, 2 years later, I'm glad something encouraged me towards reconciliation. At the time, I wanted to throttle him and probably wouldn't have spit on him if he'd been on fire.....now that I've gone through the reconciliation process, and the ongoing counseling, I realize that he is so much more than the part of him that was unfaithful.

Thanks again fiber and justugh - very good information sharing.

Yes - just to add to it. I believe anyone who is doing something distructive to themselves - drugs, drinking whatever the form is - that their partner - who loves them - will help them through any crisis.

But this sort of crisis/addiction - of cheating - gets so personal towards the BS that its as if we are swept into the situation fully and we can't see a way of helping anyone but perhaps ourselves by getting out and getting out - causes all sorts of messes.

infidelity is such a huge nuclear bomb on the family unit because it is so personally to the BS. It is one of the most personal/hurtful things that a S can do to a another S. Whether they know it or not.

Having an argument happens and is over with - cheating is like slicing away at that person and hurting them over and over - then comes the family distruction.

We have one son, he is 13. If we were to split up, Death of the family unit would be devastating of course. But more concerning than that to me would be, how the heck do you find the time to give the children that they need? Onyx, you sound like a great father, one who spends TIME with his children. The most important thing you can give them. I give a lot of time to my son, which i would not have if I was separated from my wife.It takes the two of us to keep up with house chores, groceries, helping child with homework, commuting to and from school, soccer practices etc etc. I don't see how that is possible if you split up.

Withholding any intimate connection in order to maintain all power within the relationship is also very personal, often even deliberate, slicing away at self esteem of one's spouse.

I am grateful that H and I have been forgive each other for these injuries and keep our family unit together. Knowing the alternative I can any with confidence that this, while difficult, is easier on all of us.

I agree with that too - with holding should never occur - the human body needs touch/affection.

Thanks onyx. I'm glad to have found some common ground with you. At the end of this life our families and often a patchwork of odd bits that don't match the Leave it to Beaver image and that's okay. Family is more than relatives and wedding rings, it's the people who fit in our hearts. I hope when the dust settles for you that you will find this to be true.

My husband and I have been married for almost 20 years and remained married even after infidelity, so I can't speak from a parent perspective, only from a child's perspective:

My mother left my biodad because he beat her so badly she ended up in the hospital.... on more than one occasion, actually. She left so I would never be subjected to abuse like that. While she was raising me, she never once said a bad word about my biodad, so I never knew exactly what had gone down until I was an adult. As a child when I would ask, she'd just say, "I did what I had to do in order to be happy and healthy. We were toxic together."

I am SO grateful to my mom for teaching me that no matter HOW hard it is to leave, you gotta do what you gotta do to protect yourself and make yourself happy. No one else will ever put your happiness before theirs on a daily basis. A GOOD partner will always consider your happiness along side theirs, but they'll still have their own interests closer to heart - as it should be. I'm also blessed that my mom sacrificed the comfort of "the devil she knew" in order to protect ME.

I lived without "stuff" a two parent, dual income family might have had. I dealt with not having a daddy (until Mom remarried and step-dad adopted me, at any rate) and I'm no worse for wear in that arena. I guess I could blame a lot of crap on my parents (all three of them) but I will ALWAYS give my mom kudos for getting out of a marriage and fixing HERSELF and her OWN situation rather than trying to "fix" someone else.

Trust me, a loving, caring, functioning family isn't "broken" no matter how many people sit at the dinner table in the evenings. Broken is letting your kids grow up thinking it's ok to be treated like shit.

Amen to that :)

Sorry for the strong language. Just something I'm really passionate about.

Onyx - there has been no death of your family. Just a death of your marriage. It hurts. It sucks. But you're still the daddy and your wife is still the mommy. That hasn't changed. If anything, it's gotten easier in some ways because you KNOW you can't count on "mom" since she's NOT THERE. It's just you (at least when the kids are with you) so it's YOUR rules and YOUR atmosphere and YOUR precious time with them. No stress about arguing with their mother or battling over every little issue - you just get to enjoy your time with them and be a dad.

Yeah, it sucks only getting them 50% of the time, but guess what? It sucks having to go to work in the morning and leaving your kiddo in day care so you can put a roof over your head. It sucks having to go to a meeting instead of a school award ceremony. It sucks having to go to bed early because of school/work in the morning instead of staying up "just a little longer" to finish a game of Monopoly. But we do what we gotta do to balance things.

We reschedule a meeting, we make sure "a little longer" is fifteen minutes instead of an hour, we guard the precious time we DO have with our kids by not giving in to the temptations of wasting that time fighting over which shoes a nine-year-old wants to wear or by insisting everyone wash their faces before bed. We eat frozen pizza instead of a home cooked meal. We kick back in the grass-that-should-have-been-mown and watch the clouds instead of tidying up the family room.

Life is short. Kids are young for such a tiny amount of time. (I should know - mine are 19, 16, and 12!) and you just learn to make the most of what you do have instead of fretting over what you don't have. THAT is how you "move on".

Allora, you reminded me of a poem shared with me a long time ago, when I was fretting over single parenting and thinking I had to be 'perfect' (as if that's possible!):

My dishes went unwashed today,
I didnt make the bed,
I took his hand and followed
Where his eager footsteps led.
Oh yes, we went adventuring,
My little son and I,
Exploring all the great outdoors
Beneath the summer sky.
We waded in a crystal stream,
We wandered through a wood.
My kitchen wasnt swept today,
But life was sweet and good.
We found a cool sun-dappled glade
And now my small son knows
How Mother Bunny hides her nest
Where fern and larkspur grow.
We watched a robin feed her young,
We climbed a sunlit hill,
Saw cloud-sheep scamper through the sky;
We plucked a daffodil.
That my house was neglected,
That I didnt sweep the stair,
In twenty years no one on earth
Will know or even care.
But that Ive helped a little boy
To noble manhood grow,
In twenty years the whole wide world
May look and see and know.

Love that poem. :)

Married, divorced... two kids or twelve, there's always an impulse to do it "right" ... sometimes we just lose sight of what that "right" is. I'm not sure we ever know cos sometimes there isn't a right or wrong, just what we can manage.

Thanks all - I was thinking over the weekend who great leaders in our own country were raised not by his parents but by his grand parents - father not in the picture - mother divorced twice.

Our current president.