Infidelity Support Group
Any relationship in which one partner engages willfully in sexual relations with another outside of the partnership is considered to have experienced infidelity. This breach of trust is often traumatizing for the faithful partner as well as the relationship, and support is often needed to heal emotionally and to decide whether or not the relationship should continue after...
I figured this would be the right place to post since we're dealing with issues of trust and betrayal. I am not sure what my purposes is... whether just venting or if I am soliciting advice or looking for support.
I found out about my wife's EA about 4 years ago. I don't know how far things went because it seems like she only told me about stuff I was able to prove. I don't think she slept with the guy, but the evidence suggests she was planning on it (despite her having these wild nonsensical explanations about why I found rubbers in her purse or why she didn't want to stay in my hotel room while we were at a conference that the OM was also at. Anyways, it shattered me. All I cared about was my career and my family, and since this guy was someone who was associated with my career, I basically lost both at the same time (not saying I was a great husband, because frankly, I had become a workaholic).
Anyways, we went through counseling, I saw a therapist, we worked on things, I moved out for a while, moved back in, and we got our act together. Things were good for a while, and we moved forward and ended up having a set of twins,
Then after the kids were born, problems start again. Money had been another big issue in our marriage. She went out an opened bank accounts without telling me, did what she wanted with "her" money (while I tried to cover our expenses with "our" money, meaning what I earned). She'd make several trips to the store over the course of a few days and spend $500 - $1000 without ever bothering to tell me. She'd opened credit cards (or took my cards out of my wallet) and charged them to the limit, then hid the bills and I found out about them after I started getting collection calls. Frankly, a big part of the reason I ended up becoming a workaholic was because I felt like if I made more money then we wouldn't have to argue about it and we could be happy. It did work (at least for me, until she had the EA).
So back to the kids... She starts spending money like crazy. They'd stay at my aunt's from time to time, so she insists on buying two new pack and plays just to leave there (after I ask her not to since we were hardly using the ones in the house). Every trip to Wal Mart was totalling $300 - $500 and she would make several a week. We had every effing seen-on-pinterest gadget known to man. No matter how much I ask her to stop, it keeps going. Although I was managing to pay our bills (late usually), she was spending every dime I made, every dime she made, and anything extra that came in too.
Then we baptize the kids. We agree to a $1500 budget for the party (she goes out of control on parties). She spends it.
Then my sister is having a baby shower and my wife gets asked to plan it. Now, my sister is a loser who smokes pot all day with her boyfriend who hasn't worked more than two weeks in the 5 years they have been dating. I am trying to get us financially stable, and frankly they get enough handouts from everyone else, so I refuse to spend more money.
A month later on a whim I log into Chase to check a credit card I had paid off and hadn't used in years. Balance: over $3,000. Then I check my other card... Another $1,500 balance there. Interestingly enough, she wasn't on either of these accounts because of her past history, so she took them out of my wallet and hid the bills again.
Financial infidelity.
I spend years struggling to rebuild trust, and she betrays me again. So we have a blowout and I tell her in no simple terms that if we didn't have the kids, I would be gone. She's sorry, won't happen again, blah blah. We create a budget, agree on our expenditures. She gets cash in envelopes to do her shopping so she A) can't empty the bank account, and B) I'm not in control. She agrees to join a support group. This goes fine for a few months.
Our son has some special needs, so we get a couple hundred bucks from the state every month. I realize I am not seeing it show up in the bank account. I confront her. The explanation was that it was spent on special glasses for him to correct a serious vision problem. Fine... that is what it was for. Then I forget. A few months go by and I approach her again. $250 shows up in our account the next day. Then next month, no check. AGAIN I approach her, and this time it was spent on "household items." Another blow out. Now she wants to see a counselor because I am not affectionate enough. We've done counselling. I see how well it has worked.
Today I go in my son's closet (she always dresses the kids) and it is hanging wall to wall with clothes with the tags still on them. My daughter's closet is the same. I've been rotating the same two pair of khakis for work for a year, and they have holes worn in them (I wonder how that impacts my career... looking like a hobo all the time).
I'm just tired of the lies, witholding, betrayal, lack of consideration, and feeling totally out of control. To me, financial infidelity and affairs are two sides of the same coin, and I am tired of spending my life in a state of anxiety because I can't trust her with money or men.
But now we have kids, and because the universe has a great sense of irony, if I leave I will spend the rest of my life making big child support payments so she can indulge her every whim... and I miss out on my kids growing up. For my troubles they'll likely tolerate me four days a month and call me by my first name.
I'm just at a loss.
I found out about my wife's EA about 4 years ago. I don't know how far things went because it seems like she only told me about stuff I was able to prove. I don't think she slept with the guy, but the evidence suggests she was planning on it (despite her having these wild nonsensical explanations about why I found rubbers in her purse or why she didn't want to stay in my hotel room while we were at a conference that the OM was also at. Anyways, it shattered me. All I cared about was my career and my family, and since this guy was someone who was associated with my career, I basically lost both at the same time (not saying I was a great husband, because frankly, I had become a workaholic).
Anyways, we went through counseling, I saw a therapist, we worked on things, I moved out for a while, moved back in, and we got our act together. Things were good for a while, and we moved forward and ended up having a set of twins,
Then after the kids were born, problems start again. Money had been another big issue in our marriage. She went out an opened bank accounts without telling me, did what she wanted with "her" money (while I tried to cover our expenses with "our" money, meaning what I earned). She'd make several trips to the store over the course of a few days and spend $500 - $1000 without ever bothering to tell me. She'd opened credit cards (or took my cards out of my wallet) and charged them to the limit, then hid the bills and I found out about them after I started getting collection calls. Frankly, a big part of the reason I ended up becoming a workaholic was because I felt like if I made more money then we wouldn't have to argue about it and we could be happy. It did work (at least for me, until she had the EA).
So back to the kids... She starts spending money like crazy. They'd stay at my aunt's from time to time, so she insists on buying two new pack and plays just to leave there (after I ask her not to since we were hardly using the ones in the house). Every trip to Wal Mart was totalling $300 - $500 and she would make several a week. We had every effing seen-on-pinterest gadget known to man. No matter how much I ask her to stop, it keeps going. Although I was managing to pay our bills (late usually), she was spending every dime I made, every dime she made, and anything extra that came in too.
Then we baptize the kids. We agree to a $1500 budget for the party (she goes out of control on parties). She spends it.
Then my sister is having a baby shower and my wife gets asked to plan it. Now, my sister is a loser who smokes pot all day with her boyfriend who hasn't worked more than two weeks in the 5 years they have been dating. I am trying to get us financially stable, and frankly they get enough handouts from everyone else, so I refuse to spend more money.
A month later on a whim I log into Chase to check a credit card I had paid off and hadn't used in years. Balance: over $3,000. Then I check my other card... Another $1,500 balance there. Interestingly enough, she wasn't on either of these accounts because of her past history, so she took them out of my wallet and hid the bills again.
Financial infidelity.
I spend years struggling to rebuild trust, and she betrays me again. So we have a blowout and I tell her in no simple terms that if we didn't have the kids, I would be gone. She's sorry, won't happen again, blah blah. We create a budget, agree on our expenditures. She gets cash in envelopes to do her shopping so she A) can't empty the bank account, and B) I'm not in control. She agrees to join a support group. This goes fine for a few months.
Our son has some special needs, so we get a couple hundred bucks from the state every month. I realize I am not seeing it show up in the bank account. I confront her. The explanation was that it was spent on special glasses for him to correct a serious vision problem. Fine... that is what it was for. Then I forget. A few months go by and I approach her again. $250 shows up in our account the next day. Then next month, no check. AGAIN I approach her, and this time it was spent on "household items." Another blow out. Now she wants to see a counselor because I am not affectionate enough. We've done counselling. I see how well it has worked.
Today I go in my son's closet (she always dresses the kids) and it is hanging wall to wall with clothes with the tags still on them. My daughter's closet is the same. I've been rotating the same two pair of khakis for work for a year, and they have holes worn in them (I wonder how that impacts my career... looking like a hobo all the time).
I'm just tired of the lies, witholding, betrayal, lack of consideration, and feeling totally out of control. To me, financial infidelity and affairs are two sides of the same coin, and I am tired of spending my life in a state of anxiety because I can't trust her with money or men.
But now we have kids, and because the universe has a great sense of irony, if I leave I will spend the rest of my life making big child support payments so she can indulge her every whim... and I miss out on my kids growing up. For my troubles they'll likely tolerate me four days a month and call me by my first name.
I'm just at a loss.
So sorry.
I wish I had some better advice for you, but damn, I would divorce her too. I would rather do child support, based on a percentage of my income than have her have the ability to bury you financially at a whim.
Unreal..
L~
But the question for you is whether this relationship has any hope. Like L said, it might be better she only gets child support. And who knows, if you can prove to a judge that she is financially irresponsible, you might get custody.
Right now it sounds more like she's sucking the life out of you, in more ways than one.
You have set some good restrictions for her, like the no credit cards and money in an envelope, but I'm not sure the addiction has been addressed. And if she has no fun spending money, her addiction may bottleneck.
She has to recognize that she has an addiction,and you need to become physically involved in her addiction to help her through it, and the emotions around the spending.
Don't let her shop on her own, go with her. Become involved in the shopping and spending of household items. Give her a cash allowance for small things only.
Change your schedule so you're available to go shopping in the evenings or weekends.
When you leave an addict to their own devices, they have nothing to stop them. When they know they have access to the bank's vault...
When you involve yourself in her addiction, and show your interest and support and affection, this action can do wonders for a person who can't control it on their own. It boosts their self esteem, slowly giving them the strength to help themselves.
Set out rules or guidelines for your shopping, before you go, to avoid disputes and angry exchanges in public, damaging any progress or further attempts to try it again.
Talk that all out in great length before you hit the stores. Listen to her needs, have her listen to yours and find a compromise. Writing things down on a list, can really help see it clearly, and making a compromise becomes easier.
I hope it all works out for both of you.
Use only 1 yourself,
Don't close the others but do not use them,
You know your wife has a spending problem yet you have not taken the cards and put them away. Not in your wallet obviously she has no problem stealing them. This will be and inconvenience but you have to stop the financial hemorrhaging before you lose even more. So go to the bank and get you a small safety deposit box and the cards that has the largest limit put them there. DO NOT tell her, DO NOT give her access to them. Keep one card with the lowest limit possible for emergencies. If you need to keep your cards open, call the credit card company and at least get the available balance lowered. I would then just keep one with a high limit for emergency and that one goes in the safety deposit box. Telling her to stop is obviously not working so you have to do more until she can get some control but you don't want to go down with her.
The cash thing is a good budget tool. You need to cut her off totally with those cards and I would do some of the cash too. I would set up another account and put some money aside for emergencies or dang so you can live off without working yourself to death. I wouldn't keep making a fuss of the $250. If it does not show up in the account I would take it from her cash budget. And I would lower it too because if she feel like you are cutting her off to much I'm sure she will start saying she can't do the things she need to around the house. I would take over paying the bills also. Doing bill pay does not take that long.
You know she shops at Wal-Mart, their tags for the most part are labelled I would take a lot of those kids clothes back and use some of that money and get you some work khakis because you are important, make yourself feel that way and don't go to work looking thrown away.
Not that I am a model of financial responsibility, because I am not, but I always communicate any kind of purchase before I make. I'm an adult and I am not going to ask permission, but I do think that I owe her the opportunity to discuss what happens to our money. That is really all I am looking for in return... the opportunity to have a discussion about what happens with the money I go to work every day to earn.
I had an honest conversation with her last night and told her I was unhappy because I feel completely out of control. Specifically I feel like I've had all financial control taken away due to withholding and lies, which indeed are a form of control. Likewise I have no control over the state of the house. I am ready to rent a dumpster and fill it. She agreed, and has agreed to continue to try to make improvements, but we'll see.
I feel like the problem keeps shifting but doesn't really get fixed. Now she is a member of some mom's group online where they swap and sell things, so the "stuff" keeps piling up. It just costs $5 for a toy instead of $50. She feels triumphant that she got a deal... I get pissed because I am tired of clutter, and we can't see eye to eye. She doesn't necessarily respect my position, because frankly, I grew up with nothing. There were times in my childhood I didn't own a pair of shoes to wear to the shoe store to buy a pair shoes, so when I tell her that the kids have more stuff now than I had my entire childhood, she blows it off.
I'm don't want to paint myself to be the perfect husband, but I am honest, loyal, and work hard to provided a life for my family that I never had as a kid.
I think I am just vocalizing my frustration so I can try to find a solution. Thanks for listening. I'll poke around for a shopping addiction group. I am sure there has to be one here.
I also told her last night that I feel like crap about myself because I see myself as a slob at work. I was an executive VP for a small company when she had her EA. I put in a lot of hours, but made good money, loved what I did, and I felt good about myself when I dressed the part.
The EA put me over the edge with the job. It was high stress enough, and I just couldn't deal with the emotional issues stemming from the affair plus the stress at work plus the humiliation of sitting down and having lunch with the OM to talk business strategy and finding out that pretty much my entire office knew what was going on. I left and took a position outside of management for approximately 40% of what I was making. I felt like a total failure, and while I have improved my position a lot since then, I am definitely not where I was before. I think I lost a lot of respect for myself, and I am still struggling to get it back.
I can't believe I am still talking about this crap four years after the fact.
I don't have an addictive personality and I'm cheap so it's easy for me to turn off my spending deal or not. For someone that has an additive personality not so much and getting deals can easily turn to hoarding.
As for you, you seem to have identified a lot of your problems, you just need the tools on how to fix them and build your self esteem back up.
Really, I hate to say it but my own opinion with addiction is for you to move very fast, furious and final. My own opinion may be jaded. You have gotten some really good advice here. I have to add that 'if an addict wants to be active in their addiction, you aren't going to stop them. It's up to them.' so, all these safety procedures you have put in place are helping you, for now...only for now. The rest of it has to be dealt with.
Sending you support, L~
You are absolutely right. That is kind of the conclusion I have come to. And you are also right... it is still going on, only shifting forms.
This all forces me into a position where I feel like I have to control things, which is exhausting. It has been like that all along, whether it was the courtesy of a phone call to say she would be late from work, to going out of town on a trip that made me really uncomfortable, to the EA, to financial infidelity. She does something inconsiderate, I go through asking, pleading, arguing, pleading, trying to control to minimize the damage, then resignation that it isn't going to change. Unfortunately I have resigned so many times that it has begun to impact my self worth.
The thing is, she goes out of her way to do nice stuff for me, but then turns around and completely ignores the more important stuff I ask for. We went over this in marriage counseling too... just didn't seem to sink in.
Seeing a therapist myself might be a good first step so I can figure out what I need to feel like myself again.