Infidelity Support Group
Any relationship in which one partner engages willfully in sexual relations with another outside of the partnership is considered to have experienced infidelity. This breach of trust is often traumatizing for the faithful partner as well as the relationship, and support is often needed to heal emotionally and to decide whether or not the relationship should continue after...
A question popped into my mind I thought would be good to get feedback on just to see what everyone thinks.
This is not to discount anyone's pain in recovering from any of this, but do you think there are degrees of cheating in the following categories:
1) Activities involved from exchanging flirts/sex messages to one-night-stands to full out emotional and physical affair.
2) Length of time the affairs went on.
3) Length of time until you find out about it, even a one-night-stand some years ago.
4) Now, reevaluate the above based on likelihood of a positive recovery from rather than how bad you perceive them to be. Any difference?
This is not to discount anyone's pain in recovering from any of this, but do you think there are degrees of cheating in the following categories:
1) Activities involved from exchanging flirts/sex messages to one-night-stands to full out emotional and physical affair.
2) Length of time the affairs went on.
3) Length of time until you find out about it, even a one-night-stand some years ago.
4) Now, reevaluate the above based on likelihood of a positive recovery from rather than how bad you perceive them to be. Any difference?
So by acknowledging that reality, I'm hearing each of you are agreeing that their are situations that are harder, in general, to rebuild trust from than others. There are degrees, even if the individuals involved will offset or exacerbate the effect based on how they respond to it. Yes?
One of the advantages I had is the way I found out, I got the whole story from the get go. When I confronted her on dday, I would have known if she said, "No, that's all there is," that she was lying. There was little risk for me to get the trickle truth treatment.
But if I had found out earlier, say after it had gone on for two months, when the worst she'd done is sex-text, and I had stumbled upon a couple of those text, I would have had no way to know they hadn't done what they talked about in those texts (I never did see any of those between her and OM#1). It would have been hard to accept that she'd not had sex with him, even though she didn't until the last point, a BJ.
So, ironically, it may have made it harder to rebuild trust if I'd found out earlier than when I did because of the way I found out.
What I won't know is how it would have played out in those situations, since it didn't happen that way.
So, oh well. Not that any of it matters in my case, but like I said, was interested in how others viewed it.
I do agree with you that cheating is not the worst that someone can do. Maybe at the time when it was all going down, I would have said, 'this is the very worst thing I have seen.' Maybe I did say that., but not so much now. Just goes to show you what 'time' can do.
Cole, I have no idea what I would have done if I had found out sooner, before it got to be a full fledged affair. All I do know is that, at that time, we had so much 'bad' going on in our marriage that it was probably not fixable even without the affair.
L~
And, no, I owe none of the men who harmed me any expressions of regret.
The boyfriend in college who was borrowing my car at night to visit his toddler son (and, it turned out, was robbing gas stations and coke dealers in my car to feed the coke habit I knew nothing about), who who beat me up to get my keys and wreck the only transportation my daughter and I had....nope, I don't owe him any apologies. He died the death he deserved, no doubt, and my hands are still clean.
The 'men' who raped me? Nope. What regret could I possibly express to either of them? Sorry for being in your presence when you have no ability to control yourself and no respect for women? I don't think so.
Maybe I have not yet succeeded in truly forgiving any of them. Obviously, I still feel anger when the subject comes up. Does that mean I haven't forgiven? I don't know. Either way, I know that the nature of the wrong doesn't change the fact that never letting it go will only hold me back.
I personally found just forgiving easier than staying and rebuilding. Perhaps this is exactly why it was easy because I could just move on and spend my energy on forgiving whereas now I am spending tons of energy on rebuilding and trying to survive with everyday reminder of the past around me all the time.
first time around I didn't have to deal with it. I left the past behind me and with time (not that long) forgave. Now I don't find it so easy. Also perhaps the damage done was so much more. Hence my believing that Cole's point 1, 2 and 3 do matter. Mostly for forgiveness though. Less so for probability of successful rebuilding.
Well, that also can go back to the person. I forgave pretty quickly, some might say too quickly. But I think I had to keep on forgiving as we went too. Others in my shoes wouldn't have forgiven so readily. So depends on the person.
My thoughts are that any one person, differences in what happened, how long, and with who could make it more or less difficult to forgive, heal from it, and/or rebuild. However, we'll never know because we can't know a "what if."
One, how many times have people said, "You cheat, and I'm gone." But when it happens, they aren't so quick to bolt. Most of us think we know what we would do, but don't really find out until it actually happens.
Two, a change in any circumstantial variables could have an unanticipated domino effect. People are unpredictable. Even when you think you know them. Especially when they aren't acting rationally.
For instance, if I had discovered Gabi's sex-texting before she had her multiple online emotional affairs and her local guy affair that "went all the way," I would tend to say if that ended it there that would have been much better than what did happen both in time and loss of intimacy. But it is also true that she may have not been able to break so cleanly from her foggy desires to experience what OM#1 had generated in her, that it could have gone underground and continued for me to discover later. If that had happened, it would have ended up making it harder in the end for rebuilding, and I could be on here now as a divorced spouse instead of having successfully rebuilt.
In the end, one just doesn't know how it would have turned out. Which is, I believe, why obsessing over, "if only I'd seen it earlier" in the end won't be productive as a BS. It might have made it easier, it might have made it harder. You simply can't know short of divine revelation.
More productive to deal with what *did happen* and how to respond to that in the healthiest way possible.
While I do think that all mentioned factors play a role in the depth of pain and damage done, including the time a couple has been together. I've always contended that the betrayal between a couple dating a mere six months is very different than the betrayal of a couple married 20 years. There's a completely different commitment involved. In this way, I DO feel there are different degrees of damage done.
But... speaking solely for myself... I don't think I would have been less likely to try to save my marriage based on the amount of damage done - I just think it would have been harder to actually do so.
As others have said, a lot depends on the cheating spouse's attitude and behavior after discovery. It depends on a willingness to put precautions into place to avoid future infidelity and a willingness to invest in truly rebuilding the marriage. Mind you, this is speaking solely for ME, I know others feel totally (and justifiably) different and wouldn't have any interest in rebuilding, regardless of the circumstances, but I don't think it was the severity of my husband's transgressions that decided the positive or negative outcome, but our mutual actions thereafter.
As Fiber said - it's all a choice. I could have said, "Forget this, it's not worth it..." and been perfectly fine healing on my own, eventually. I chose to stay because I truly adore my husband and because he expressed true adoration and desire to try to work on our marriage - and then followed through.
Our attitudes and actions determined our success and will continue to determine our success (or heaven help us - failure.)
1) Activities involved from exchanging flirts/sex messages to one-night-stands to full out emotional and physical affair.
2) Length of time the affairs went on.
3) Length of time until you find out about it, even a one-night-stand some years ago.
4) Now, reevaluate the above based on likelihood of a positive recovery from rather than how bad you perceive them to be. Any difference?
So, here are my thoughts about it:
1) Activities involved from exchanging flirts/sex messages to one-night-stands to full out emotional and physical affair.
I know that my Xh did the flirts, etc. He also did one-night stands, physical affairs. I'm not sure what emotional affairs consist of. If that means he believed he was in love with someone else, then not that I know of. I am aware that my current H did his flirts/sex messages/porn etc. That I know of, he had no physical affairs at all, though I think that quite suspicious. As far as emotional, if that means believing he was in love with someone else, then no.
I can say that I got hurt far more from my current H, though what I know of his behaviors is "far" "far" less than with my Xh. The difference in the two, was that I trusted H number two. The fact that I trusted him is what go to me most.
2) Length of time the affairs went on.
Well, that's a loaded question in my case too. My X apparently had off and on affairs for the entire twelve years of our marriage. None of them lasted long at all. But, when I found that twelve years of lies interlinked his behaviors, that was quite enough for me to divorce him. My current H and I have been together for more than thirty years. Apparently, his private sexual behaviors were periodic during the entire marriage. So, in that way, a reallllly long time. Though, there were never any threats to the marriage from his perspective. Interesting?
3) Length of time until you find out about it, even a one-night-stand some years ago.
Yes, I do believe that the longer the masquerade, the more damage is done. Particulary, if the spouse was thoroughly trusted for many years. I think that may be because I felt that soooooo many years were just a big phony show, and, that's a lot of years to lose to destruction of any previously perceived good memories. Lots of years...lots of loss.
4) Now, reevaluate the above based on likelihood of a positive recovery from rather than how bad you perceive them to be. Any difference?
I think there is little liklihood in discovering long term lies. The longer the lies persist, the less likely the marriage will survive.
1) Activities involved from exchanging flirts/sex messages to one-night-stands to full out emotional and physical affair.
Degrees of cheating.. Well, the activities involved for me have been all of the above. But, flirting does not bother me, it is when it crosses over to "what's your number" or lying by omission that I alive. When the motives are not a innocent laugh or slap on the back while tossing your hair ( I knew.. but example to point) and if I come into the room I am ignored or disrespected that will upset me. But if I walk into the room, and they talk stays the same as does the actions but I am acknowledged, then I'm ok. If they will say or do it infront of me, that doesn't bother me. Its the sneeking and lying and cover up that I think is wrong. ie: h and his xw who he also had affair with, when we all lived together a couple of years ago, they where always trying to respect me. I would tell them that I had moved on, it was in the past, and I appreciated the way they tried to consider my feelings, but they needed to be real. It was to tense when they did not be themselves. Eventually they did. I said only think I ask is if you can't say it or do it in front of me, then you shouldn't be saying or doing it when I'm not around. This was respected and again, I know that is the way it was. I didn't walk into the room or come home and ever feel like hush hush was there. Mind you the fact of them having the affair afew years prior (oct 07) this was the one devastating blow and most heartbroken I have even felt in my life. I truly feel apart. (as my journals and post on DS from 08 may show) But this was the event that changed everything for me, and I would never change it at all. They don't understand how I can feel this way, which I think is to bad because they are missing out on so much hurt going away and moving forward.
The hookers hurt, but not the same as when he slept with, some kind of sexual interaction with kim, dawn, inge, Melissa, sherry, Trish, Dawn, Amanda, jane, Cheryl. But the hooker in DR hurts me just as much. Yet, when I was able to read his text messages in real time, and I got to see what he was saying to his last one, but most likely his full fledge affair. Reading those messages between them has rented more space in my head. Just as much as the two of them together.
2) Length of time the affairs went on. No, this isn't something that sways either way.
3) Length of time until you find out about it, even a one-night-stand some years ago.
Yes this one is hard. During disclosure I found out about him cheating and he lied to me for 14 years.. The longer time the lies stayed safe, the harder it is to accept as a mistake. Doing it once and coming clean or not, but never doing it again, that is a mistake, but anyones after are a choice.. nothing more. I also found out about one as it was happening.. and had been happening for over a month. stopped and then she finally got him to respond to a text when she said she was her daughter.. nice eh. When I seen the messages when I was at Trish's (paul wf and ow at one time) and she seen the tears then blank soul she knew something was up. I asked her to bail me out of jail if I needed. I seen he asked her to go to a motel, and Cheryl was all for it of course, and I was going to let them go to their motel, I would know where because I know where he would go, show up with my baseball bat, and I was going to crush their skulls in. I said this as calmly as could be, and it wasn't one of those empty threats, it was matter of fact. While driving I realized that this had to stop. That is when I went home, he knew something was up, and text her to say another time, I came home. that was a day of pure insanity. So knowing as it happens isn't good either, Pick your poison I guess, but just make sure your not the one drinking it.
4) Now, reevaluate the above based on likelihood of a positive recovery from rather than how bad you perceive them to be. Any difference?
I am responsible for me, and I know I will recover. and their is no difference for me. I perceive them the same with or without a positive recovery. Because I went into this years ago knowing I was going to recover, and not allow myself to be betrayed and disrespected over the samething twice. ie: I have fibromyalgia and head injury... but it doesn't have me.
5) who it was is absolutely one of those different reactions I think.