I have another possible category to consider,

5) Who the AP is. A close friend, a family member, a no face no name one time, co-worker, escort, or an former partner, someone you never met,

Interesting question and I would yes and no. People look at my details and wow, that's worse than mine. I think it feels good to know that there are worse situations. Thinking, "well, I'll put up with A,B,C but damned if I'm gonnaput up with D!"

Yet how we deal with it all can change the perception of the enormity. If you see a3 year A kept secret for 8 years after it ended and an oc also kept secret, you think zero chance of acceptance yet here I am.

Then you see a brief online encounter and think "geez I wish that was my situation". But it's a matter of perception.

Just look at when a new (or older) poster brings up their situation and lots of people jump in saying "leave, walk out end it" . Even though of us in more severe situations think they should end it. It's perception and the cs reaction post dday that seem to matter so much more than the "degree" of the offense.

Oh and one more

6) partners sexual orientation opposite from the A.


My final thought, I really think recovery is equal when it comes to severity of A. Just on the spouses with iligitimate children page. Most stay in the marriage.

Just tired - I completely agree.

The 15 month affair my x had was with a married, female friend we barbecued with, babysat each others' kids, etc. The OW he had an A with was someone at work, but I never met her.

Knowing I had a relationship with the one woman as her friend, for me, was an additional issue I had to deal with. The other one I wasn't happy with, but hell, at that point, he could've have twelve affairs and it wouldn't have mattered...for me, one A is enough.

I suppose you can say that the affair involvement/intensity is inversely proportional to the pain of the betrayed.

However, some are not as hurt as others with seemingly identical situations.

People divorce over ONS's....yet some recover after lengthy affairs.

Yes, blind. That thought had occurred to me too. I think it goes back to what pink said. Good thoughts.

I do think that things can be less bad and very bad depending on 1, 2, 3 and 5. I don't think it impacts the probability of successful recovery at all. It impacts the depth of trauma BS will have to deal with but not the probability of success.

For me its all about 1. Does the BS actually love the CS. If not this might be used as a good excuse to leave 2. Most important - what does the CS do after DDay.... I can see a ONS being a deal breaker if a CS says "what's a big deal, just get over it" or worse.... While true remorse and hard work will save marriage after years long infidelity and many affairs. 3. Seeing actual improvement in CS behavior.

I agree there are a lot of factors that can affect the ability of a specific situation as to whether it heals or not. We can all point to situations from the history of this forum when a spouse was caught sex texting, and they ended up divorce, or situation's like Pink's where it was long term, hidden for a long time, but in the end came through it to a better place. And the pain and trauma can be just as acute for either situation too, depending on the people involved.

Maybe I should state it a different way, though. Do any of these degrees, in and of themselves, in general, make it easier to recover from the affair for a BS, all other things being equal?

Let me personalize it to illustrate what I mean. While what I went through was bad enough, it seems some of the factors made it easier to heal from. Certainly Gabi's response and work played a huge part in our recovering as we did. But my situation also had some advantages that made it easier. For instance, Gabi has never had a pattern of cheating through the 28.5 years of marriage before this happened. It made it easier to see what happened as an uncharacteristic aberration rather than a consistent pattern of cheating. She was in a decidedly uncharacteristic frame of mind during the As. I think that fact made it easier for me to rebuild trust than it would if she'd had a habit of cheating on me.

Another example. Let's say that I hadn't found out when I did, and the A wound down, she came to her senses, stopped it, but didn't tell me about it. Then ten years later, I find out it happened. To me that would have been worse because she'd willing deceived me about something so critical to our marital health for 10 years, long after any affair fog would have worn off. It seems to me in that instance, it would be harder to rebuild trust due to the long-term deception. Hard enough when the deception lasted for 7 months while she was in this crazy frame of mind, would be another to know she'd deceived me for ten years in a "normal'" frame of mind. If she could do that, how much harder would it be to believe anything she said for a long time.

IOW, if we were to conduct a survey of couples in my situation and couples in Pink's situation, would we find that a higher % of couples rebuilt successfully in my category, or Pink's, or would it be about the same?

I don't have any answers, but thinking if people gave their own opinions of how they'd react, maybe we'd get an idea. It seems logical, but then a heavy object falling faster than a light one sounds logical too.

I think almost anything can be forgiven and left in the past. The ability to do so has less to do with the offense and more to with the offended's determination to move forward. A person has to want to forgive, but many are more interested in winning, controlling or being right.

I don't think much of Dr. Phil, but I like his one line: do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

It's all a choice.

Fiber - very much yes. This is what is included for me in my point 1. Who do I love more as a BS - my husband (CS) or myself. This is how I understand love. If I truly love, I will not have the need to win, control and be right and I will be able to put US above MY ego.

Fiber, you said, 'I think almost anything can be forgiven and left in the past. The ability to do so has less to do with the offense and more to with the offended's determination to move forward. A person has to want to forgive, but many are more interested in winning, controlling or being right. '

On this, I have to agree with you and disagree, a bit. I'ld have to add to that (and you are totally right in your statement), that it really depends, also, on the one who did the cheating. How's he/she handling it? Are they telling you to 'get over it?' are they blaming you for what they did? Like, 'well, you suck as a wife'. Are they owning it or still lying? I think so much depends on how someone handles it when the truth all comes out. How that cheater handles it is key. Right along with the offended party's ability to forgive.

See my point? Loves you, L~

(my tomato plant died, by the way....)

Yes, of course forgiveness depends (most often) on there being some remorse on the part of the person who did the harm. Usually, but not always.

There is a man who caused me great pain years ago who has since died, without ever expressing regret for his actions. There is another who, as far as I know, still lives here in town. And another who lives here and frequently puts himself in my path. None of them have or had any remorse.

How do I forgive them and, if I don't, who loses? Who carries the pain? And who lives with the fear? I do, while they go about (or die) unaffected, without any regard for my pain, at all.

But if I can forgive, release, and move forward I Can Set Myself Free.

Alright, you have a great point. You got me, Fiber.

(nodding head here)


L~

Fibes-

"There is a man who caused me great pain years ago who has since died, without ever expressing regret for his actions. There is another who, as far as I know, still lives here in town. And another who lives here and frequently puts himself in my path. None of them have or had any remorse"

Perhaps THEY feel that you should have expressed regret or remorse for things you have done but that you are not capable of doing so. In their minds, you are not faultless. They have their own feelings and make their own decisions. I sincerely doubt that you are a victim in every relationship until you met your husband. Wait.....I forgot.......you are a victim of your marriage as well....which propagated your affair. My bad.

Blind :) Good to see you :)

See, with this, I think I was thinking on a very small plane, as in the forgiveness needed in marriage after cheating. I stayed in that 'box' while Fiber is bringing a wider view of the need for forgiveness in our every day lives, for past wrongs. Wrongs that may not have anything to do with infidelity.

That does make me re-consider.

These other people that Fiber mentioned are in her past. Now, if I look back in my life, in my 'getting older than dirt' years, I can see some things that I have been wronged on too. Not just in my marriage, but in life. I am sure you can too, Blind. Sometimes, people just do you wrong for their own reasons. What she is saying here, and I could be wrong, is calling for a higher level of forgiveness just for those flaws of human nature that happen.

Fiber? A victim? I don't believe that she's ever referred to herself as a victim. I think she's just someone who's seen much and wants to be better for it.

Just my take...L~

Hi Steck!

I agree that I cannot recall Fibes referring to herself as a victim.

I don't think that cheating is worse thing a person can do....but it's one of the worst things the betrayed will ever experience.