Yes - thats a good point - This is how I handled it - at first I was super nice to my STBX - not knowing what was going on - I basically took over all duties around the house and the STBX loved the control it gave her. She loved how I was doing everything and she didn't have to do anything - she made me feel super guilty.

Control over me and the love triangle that I had no idea I was involved with. Did not know about the AP at first - I just figured she was really upset with me because she needed a lot more help with dishes and cleaning etc.

Then I found the secret phone and she moved into the spare bedroom. She had build up a ton of resentment for a lot of things - towards me - towards what she felt like my parents should have been helping out a ton more - towards everyone in general but not towards herself - never towards taking on her own responsibilities - mind you she only worked 2 days a week. Shes a spoiled shallow princess with little to no hobbies or interests and very low selfesteem and thinks beauty is way more important that brains = I now know that adds up to a complete knucklehead explosion situation.

Resentment was the fuel she used to take off to crazytown.

Once I figured out there was another jackass (AP) in the picture blowing smoke up her ass of sheer awesomeness - that's when I disengaged with her and stopped doing everything. She was not using me and him for her ego love triangle booast her selfesteem issues - she loved the attention whether it be negative or positive - she loved the feeling of control and loved the feeling of getting back at everyone for what she felt like was people not helping here like the nanny/maids situation she has back in Colombia - yea - real realistic.

I stopped everything and she hated that and then used that as even more fuel to try and keep me down. So she upped the dial and first tried to get me to move out - then she had her AP move her out without even tellling me when - yes thats the type of person you want to be married to.

Basically "evil" swept into my house and stormed out with my wife.

Mine is an extreme case - fun for me - she was getting happy via sin and resentment.

But I have disconnected myself from her and I don't give a crap what she is doing (shes a POS) and I no longer blame myself - I blame her as a major taker in life (there are givers and takers) shes a taker and I can even see that she had planned this at around year 7 in our marriage - we were marred for 10 years.

You disengage when you have had enough of the lies/love triangle them loving that you are now so worried about them - trying to find eviendence etc - you open up the cage door and say - here - do what you want and I am going to do what I want because no marriage is perfect and she owns 50% of the problems with her major lack of communication skills and holding on to resentment instead of talking (even though the resentment was nonesense) and I do as well because I am not perfect however you don't go down the let me go outside the marriage to find happiness / grass is greener nonsense because even a 7 year old knows how that is going to end in the long run.

Be prepared for them not liking it when you do the 180 but the 180 is to help protect yourself because these people have such low selfesteems that they want to take you down to their crappy levels of everything instead of sitting you down and talking to you (communicating) they normally are terrible communicators - They want to bring you down and like that fact that you are no longer knowing whats going on. Its your chance to try and get back some form of control in your life.

I don't know if this is 'official 180", but here's my take...

I didn't like it, because it seemed like dating games to me, but to keep a person's interests, it helps to be confident, interesting, mysterious, have good stories, be unpredictable, etc. In a long relationship, people get where they think they know everything about you and get that midlife crisis feeling that life is boring.

So - it's healthy to have friends and a life outside your relationship. Build up your friend base. Do more with your friends (alone). See Star Trek with the guys or go to a batting cage or try some other thing you may not have done in a while. Starting writing a blog. Or build a table in the garage. Spend half a day looking at tablets to see if there's one you might want to buy. Go hiking. Join a gym. All of these things will make your spouse feel like she doesn't know you as well as she thought, that she may have misjudged you, that there is mystery and surprise, etc. For better or worse, you need friends and hobbies and a life outside the relationship (1) to keep it or (2) if it fails. So it's good stuff to do anyway.

The other thing is this business of addressing the things that she feels led her to this angry place. The method that I think works the best is this. You make a list of everything you think she's unhappy with or that annoys her. Everything from pet peeves (he leaves his razor in the shower) to big stuff. Organize it from easy/quick/inexpensive to do to nearly impossible or unreasonable. The big trick here is that you do it but don't advertise it. If you talk about it, she'll judge how you're doing. So you just move your razor everyday. You quit playing classical music when she's around (whatever her things are). It adds to the mystery/interest side of things because stuff is just happening and she's surprised.

All that being said, I think it can have an effect but in my experience it was short term. She didn't cheat because you aren't the perfect guy or do things that get on her nerves. She cheated because she has issues inside herself. What you're hoping for, I guess, is that the 180 approach gives her fewer reasons to blame you, catches her off guard, and makes her re-evaluate the situation and (1) rethink the relationship with you in a positive way and (2) hopefully rethink her part in things. In sales lingo, you are taking away her objections to the sale, lol.

I want to reemphasize the fact that it is the CS who has the major issues - they are seeking happiness through sin - through some idiot who would want a married person.

I married person mind you - who wants to get with married person? That person right there has major major issues going on with them - these are now 2 major issued people now getting with each other.

A married person who goes outside the marriage for happiness - is a special person - they dont go for achivements, they are not going for hobbies or furthering their education to find happiness or bring more to the family accomplishment table.

Basically they want to bring you down to their crappy level. Try not to let them bring you down to their level. It is hard to do - very hard.

To me the 180 was a way to get my balance back. I was nice, I was friendly, and I worked on getting my ducks in a row in case the marriage tanked and I was on my own. My happiness was no longer tied to him and I had to find other things to plug into - friends, volunteer groups, church, kids, etc. Not in a negative retaliatory way, but a positive, happy way. He needed to see that my life would go on without him and I would do just fine - maybe even better - if we were no longer married.

Maybe a better way of thinking of it is finding the strength within and not giving that power/control to the CS by begging for attention, chasing them, going out of your way to please them, etc. If you chase, they'll run. If you stand still and occupy yourself with things that bring you happiness and comfort then the power slowly comes back your way.

Being willing to sit down, evaluate the marriage, its weaknesses and strengths, requires both spouses to look at their own shortcomings and address the issues. IOW, it won't work if only one spouse does this. It is a rare marital breakdown, indeed, that the total "blame" is on one spouse.

For instance, her fault in this would be to have let this anger boil away in her for however many years until it exploded in an affair. Why didn't she address this before now? Why did she not say, "We've got a problem that is eating away at me. We need to get help"? Even if the answer was ignorance or blindness, that is still her investment into the marital dysfunction. It is rarely ever a one-sided issue.

If she is in blame-shifting mode, placing all the blame on you for the marriage and her decision to cheat, and not owning up to her responsibility, then doing things to please her will not be of much benefit.

This is where you'll need to evaluate the situation. I did my own article on the 180 you may find helpful:

http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/healing-infidelity-through-faith/news/view/3932216

In short, it works on your self-esteem, doesn't treat the spouse as "I can't live without you, I'll do anything to keep you," which causes them to lose respect for you in many cases. Instead, used correctly, it sends the message that this is a partnership, and if you are not going to act like one, then I'll oblige you and not act like one either.

Read mine and Gabi's article on Healing Steps for the CS. If she is not doing most of those things, or working toward them, then you doing everything she is complaining you haven't done isn't going to work. Both spouses have to be working on themselves for this to work. Here's that article:

http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/healing-infidelity-through-faith/news/view/4974162

I'd also suggest reading the Healing Steps for the BS articles in that list:

http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/healing-infidelity-through-faith/news

Hmmmm...not my post...but this is interesting. I note that Cole50s article suggests, "For until you reach a stage of empathy for the CS, until you can find the ability to care for what they are going through, rebuilding will not happen. For what you are rebuilding to isn't just an existence with each other, but a rekindling of the love you have for each other. And without empathy, that will never happen."

Now, I can see why after five years I don't feel romantic love for my H. I love him in the most familial way. I care for him. I enjoy good companionship with him. But, I don't feel romantic with him ever since D-day. And, likely I never will again. But that's ok too. It seems that the only thing that kind of love ever did for me was create pain and suffering anyway. I once felt that way, and found I was alone in my feelings. Rather an embarrassing and humiliating feeling to discover. I guess that's ok too, at least I could feel.

I have never found a valid reason to "really" feel empathy for him. Whatever his reasons were, whatever his desires were, there was never a single reason to betray me. If he wanted to go elsewhere for whatever, that's ok with me, as long as I know it. Telling me only gives me a chance to make a valid decision about whether or not I want to continue the relationship and stay along for his ride. So, lying, was only self-serving. It allowed him to make unilateral decisions about where his life, and consequently mine, was going. Had he told me the truth, the only thing that would have occured was he would have been freed of guilt and freed of the relationship with me. So, how bad can that be?

"Unfortunately, this is one step many unfaithful spouses find hard to follow through on. Especially if they were caught while the affair was ongoing. It usually means a sudden end to a relationship that at that moment, neither of you were ready to end. The end of it is expected to be abrupt. Maybe one goodby phone call and then to never speak or see them again. When someone has fallen in love with another person, even if inappropriately, to stop all contact is the equivalent to saying to the affair partner, "I don't love you, leave me alone and never talk to me again," when that is the exact opposite of how you feel. And yet, if you want the affair to be over for your spouse so that healing of the marriage can begin, this is a necessity."

"if you want the affair to be over for your spouse..." Over for your spouse? It never began for your spouse? Can someone please share why on Earth they would end a relationship where they feel that they are in love with an affair partner? Why would they want to stay with a spouse that they obviously don't love? And, why would they want to remain in a marriage that has failed?

First off thanks for the great replies. Cole50 I downloaded your book last night and I can't put it down. Since I work 3rd shift I did have to sleep. I have to say thanks to you and your wife for stepping out and airing your experiences. 1/2 way through your book and downloaded less than 24 hours ago.

I definetly feel the loss of respect! Even more so now. Since I feel I have been pandering. Today I must wake up and face the fact my kids need me. I need to be there for them and not focused on a person who chooses to stay mad and vent to her "just friend guys".

Thank you for all the replies!!

I am praying to Jesus for His hand to lead me!

We don't do the 180 to show our cheating spouses a thing. It's not a game or anything like that. Not a measure in manipulation.

the 180 is or us - to get our mind and soul centered. On ourselves. To block out everything else and take ourselves back. So we can make some good choices.

L~

SheenRe, at the risk of sidetracking the thread...

In many CS minds, they have fallen in love with their AP. That doesn't always mean they no longer love their spouse. It can mean that, but there are different levels of love:
http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/healing-infidelity-through-faith/news/view/5333418

What many CSs do is mistake infatuation with the fullness of love. It isn't. Infatuation is to love what lighter fluid is to a fire. What many CSs are in love with is a feeling more than a person. They associate the person with the feeling, and so feel they love him.

My wife was in that camp. She'd decided she loved her AP, but still loved me. She even told him if I found out, she'd stick with me and cut it off with him, because she didn't want to lose me either. On dday, CSs tend to be ambivalent, not wanting to give up their AP, nor their spouse, and struggle to decide.

The point of that comment is how important no contact is *if* a CS's goal is to save his marriage. For the BS, the affair isn't over until he feels secure that there is no more contact. But it is hard if they've fallen in love with their AP (not all are), because now they have to fall out of love with them. Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as flipping a switch. That takes time. But no contact cannot wait for the CS to fall out of love. Indeed, no contact is the means to fall out of love with them.

On the empathy front, it is a little out of context. It isn't empathy for the reasons they had the affair, but empathy for whatever pain the CS has to go through to successfully have no contact and face their demons. Empathy for how hard it is. Can it compare to the BS's pain? No, not likely. But that isn't important. They also need to gain empathy for the BS too. That doesn't negate the BS need for empathy *if* one wants to rebuild to a vibrant relationship.

If that is not the goal, that is different. But most people are not happy in a loveless marriage. They want to feel in love with their spouse. Without some level of empathy, that isn't going to happen. Until you care for what the other person is going through, there is no real love.

Hope that answered your questions.

Thanks, GunnaMakeIt. I hope you find it helpful in your situation.

Separation is a difficult and painful thing which I feel should only be used as a last resort. But I have to say I doubt I would have achieved what I have without the separation. I really learned to let go. Now that we have reconciled I probably apply the '90' if there is such a thing. I think he knows now I have achieved emotional independence to a large degree. I am less technologically dependent. I probably seem somewhat cavalier, simply because I keep my heart braced for whatever may come.

I am more sensible financially, not knowing what the future holds. I have caged my heart in case there is another infidelity. Yet we have become friends again. I am kind and considerate towards him and there is emotional intimacy when I allow myself to feel it. If it doesn't feel safe at the time I simply do not allow it. I feel remarkably strong and in control of my emotions......I am also remarkably happy. It's a balance I never thought possible, but separation made it possible. I understand how difficult it may be to do the 180 while continuing to live together. I wish you well.

Cole: Thank you for your response. I don't want to sidetrack anything that will help Gunna either. I do appreciate your input though. Some things are a bit perplexing to me still.

Gunna: I understand what you mean when you you share that "we can see times when we could have, or should have picked a different path." I think that is always true of everyone in most every circumstance. No one is ever perfect. And, I can't see where it is ever wrong to learn ways of doing things better. I do think that it was very difficult for me to attempt, though I did, to look at any errors I made in contrast with the huge ones he made. I do suppose though that listening to him relay any information regarding his particular reasoning was good. If nothing else, it allowed me to learn how he thinks.

As far as the 180 is concerned, I think there may be some good information contained in the principles. But, I found on a personal level that it was far more important for me to honor my personal feelings, what was going on with me, and ultimately the truth of what I wanted, or didn't want. I think that truth, no matter how raw, was the most important thing interjected into the relationship. Not only my truth, but his. I think that without truth on either side there is no possibility of a very good outcome. So, in my case, a recipe, (like the 180) no matter how good, for someone else's reactions and feelings, was not necessarily going to work for me.

So, maybe some of the principles of the 180 feel right? Do any of them? I think that's very important.

Something that came to me on this thread last night. I was thinking in terms of how infidelity affects our self-esteem/self-worth. I think the more one derives their self-esteem from their spouse, the more it is impacted by infidelity. I think that is one reason I didn't seem to be as hard hit in the self-esteem area as many. My marriage provided a level of emotional security and identity, but I never felt I had to have her to survive. I've always imagined that solitude would be just fine for me. So I saw the cheating as totally a problem with her self-esteem, not mine.

But I digress. For many, one's self-esteem is hit hard. One thing the 180 works on is building a sense of self-esteem apart from the spouse. According to "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus" author, it isn't a good idea in a normal relationship to expect your spouse to provide your complete sense of support and worth. He suggest only around 10% should come from him or her.

So one way the 180 helps a BS is to rebuild their self-worth and esteem apart from the spouse, which will enable you to rebuild a more "equitable" partnership in rebuilding if that is out of balance, or help you to move on without him or her if need be.

Interesting Cole. But, I don't think my "self-esteem" has anything at all to do with the esteem that I expected from my H. I don't, and never did, think that I deserved to be treated in the manner he chose. So, my "self" esteem was far greater than his esteem of me. Hence, elevated outrage and anger. Now, I'll have to admit that reciprocal respect, esteem and honor are important elements of marriage to me. So, finding that my H didn't respect me, esteem me very highly, nor honor me was most shocking and hurtful. Are you suggesting that a partner who is respectful of themselves is not injured by a disrespectful partner? I seems to me that it might be quite the opposite. I think the more one is respectful of themselves the more damage is done by a disrespectful partner. Can't prove it...but it seems that way to me.