Incest Survivors Support Group

Incest refers to any sexual activity between closely related persons that is illegal or socially taboo. Consensual adult incest is very rare. Incest between adults and prepubescent or adolescent children is a form of child sexual abuse that has been shown to be one of the most extreme forms of childhood trauma. If you or a loved one is a survivor of incest, join the group...

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nelliefay 06/18/2011

The pain I"m feeling tells me this is the site to write on. I was sexually abused around the ages of 3 - 6, and it's had a massive impact on my life. Then, in my 20's, a trusted counselor got sexual with me. I stayed in a sick involvement for a year, breaking down the whole time. This really traumatised me. since 23, I've been going to AA on and off. Mostly on.
I've always trusted the guys that started the whole thing, and wrote a lot of the literature.
At 27, I went to a really abusive drug and alcohol rehab. I got sucked in, and stayed for 5 months. Mainly because I felt I deserved the abuse, from childhood. When I got out of there, I found out i"d been conned big time by a sick set up.
Been doing AA most of the time since, trying to follow those 12 steps. Now, I've found out that the guy who wrote them, and helped start AA, was allegedly preying sexually on younger newer members.
This has gutted me. I went into a lot of pain for several days.
I'm writing now because i'm back in a lot of pain. You see, I rang my female sponsor today. She defended him, saying he's only human. Anyway, she doesn't believe it. I said 'he's got nothing to say to me' and she calls me judgemental.
so, I'm just in pain from the phone call. It only hurts me to try and talk to my AA friends about this, Another one was saying 'he's only human' too. For me his behaviour was unacceptable, and makes anything 'spiritual' he had to say, completely redundant.
I guess I'm feeling the pain from my own past, the childhood rape, and the sexual drug and alcohol counselor (who was in AA). I've also acted out self destructively a lot.
I just feel I need some support. Neither of my AA friends seems to care that I'm actually distressed, they're too busy trying to discredit me.
This all reminds me of the denial in my family, when I told them about grandpa molesting me. One, it didn't happen. Two, if it did, it' s no big deal anyway.
I feel really vulnerable, and don't know who to trust.

deleted_user 06/18/2011

((((((((((((nelliefay)))))))))))))) bigs hugs love, it sounds to me that you've had a very negative experience with AA and if you're not gietting the support and validation you need frm them then maybe it's time to move on? and if you can't find another reputable and trustworthy therapist/counsellor perhaps it is better to do without one altogether rather than put up with all the BS and triggering behaviour frm your AA associates just for a few crumbs of the 'good stuff'...it just sounds as though the good is outweighing the bad in that situation, no wonder it reminds you of the abuse, how you can believe in someone for spiritual guidance if they have behaved in abusive ways themselves? i totally get where you're coming frm and just wanted to let you know you're not alone and not crazy to think and feel the way you do...

blessings

manda xx

IClaimTheCross 06/18/2011

Huggggggggggggggggggs for you Nellifay. I think all of us have experienced what you did, even if it is only to a small degree. It is not uncommon that the place you look for help turns out to be another place of abuse. In many ways I have come to think that it is us who are the "Normal" ones. We know right from wrong, reality from fantasy and usually can spot a person who is trouble very quickly. I think that is what makes it so difficult to function in a world filled with broken people. People with a history of abusing do end up in key places where they can do more damage and/or savor someone elses abuse, including churches, help groups, therapists and even key resources like government where our rights are supposed to be respected and and protected. Occasionally and unfortunately, we even get one every now and then, that tries to pass themselves off in here. Like most of us, it sounds like you need to trust your instincts more and walk away. What happened to you, did happen and it was a big deal. People prefer lies because they point only at one person. The truth points fingers at many including those who thought it was none of their business and those who would not stand up for what is right unless they profit from it themselves. Have faith, in you. Molly

deleted_user 06/18/2011

Hey Mollie, I know what you feel when family make things to be 'no big deal'. I am going through the same with my parents. My brother abused me and now his daughter. We have reported him and are awaiting trial. I am sorry to hear about the further abuse in your 20's.....What I have learnt is that the effects this has on us as human beings can be devastating, if we allow it. You are a strong person who knows what happened was wrong. To allow anyone to make you feel otherwise is not serving you well. The hardest part is to withdraw from those people and focus on you, on the inside. You have yourself who knows the truth, the way you have felt and the way you feel now. Looks inside and meditate every day even for a few mins - breathe slowly and re affirm all that you know to be true in your heart. In time you will start to really believe it and when people say ignorant things they will bounce off you.
Those ignorant views are about them, not you. You need no one, just you and your decision to re-build yourself to be true and who you are = the beautiful person who deserves all the good things you can have in this life. Take care...xxx

nelliefay 06/19/2011

thank you so much for your kindness and support. IT really means a lot to me.

deleted_user 06/19/2011

I so agree with reply #2...............And frankly i found the 12 step programs dogmatic and the people there are very caught up into making it like is the ONLY thing that will help people and become fanatics about it................I don't know i did not liked it, did not helped me and it made me worse actually.I went to OA (eating disorders).I also found that program extremelly invalidating.

Some of the steps should not apply to child abuse survivors.Like the 4 and 5th step.......or is it 6th? (forgot)

Trust yourself.A lot of people are hypocritical and some of those "spiritual leaders" are the worse.
Trust your intuition.You do not need the invalidation of fanatics of something like a "cult" almost to try a keep a fantasy because is what they're holding on for dear life...A lot must be in denial our of fear.I mean that program is HUGE..........They would rather deny it than to have nothing........................yeah a lot like our families is hard to knock off *our* Heros.
Some people can not take reality.

reply #2 "we are the real normal" ...............so true we live in truth, when most people can not handle it.

deleted_user 06/19/2011

The only one who wouldn't disappoint and is all goddness is my Andrew Vachss.....i say this whilst i'm lighting the candles in my Andrew Vachss shrine....LOL..

just kidding....i thought that was funny...
Actually he once threaten to kick me out of his fan facebook page.
I got triggered and said something obnoxious.....as i sometimes do ( a lot).

nelliefay 06/19/2011

thanks tootie. I totally agree that the steps aren't good for child abuse survivors. I had to rewrite them in my head, to get around it. Now i can say 'f... the steps.'
I'm sorry you had a bad experience in OA, but I'm not surprised. Glad Andrew Vacchs forgave you! Take care.

deleted_user 06/19/2011

You know Nellie, ever since I've come here, I've realized that a lot of incest survivors actually become even more traumatized due to the situations that arise after the actual instances of sexual abuse, like parents being in denial, counsellors taking advantage of one's vulnerability, and so called guides and support groups creating a dent on one's psyche rather than helping eliminate it. I'm sorry you've had to go through exactly this, but as IClaimTheCross so rightly put it, we are sane people living in an insane world.

I know nothing about AA, but I'm not surprised about some pervs holding the reins at the top. Sadly, all too many support systems have their share of people who do damage rather than help people in need. At this point, your instinct is your best friend, and though I don't know how you can overcome the alcohol abuse for good in the midst of that negative environment, but I'll say this- if there's any way in which you can get out of that horrendous place or group, then do so now.

I just hope you'll go on to find a good therapist who can understand where you're coming from and not add to all the crapola you've had to go through. Jeez, all too many people have problems with their support groups... what's the world coming to these days....

littlegirl413 06/20/2011

I did not know this about AA...I know lots of people who had success with the 12 steps. Although I don't know that any of them were also survivors of child abuse. I do caution not to throw the baby out with the bath water tho. I would probably not continue with an organization that is backed by a pedophile either... Is this person still alive? On the other hand I'm not going to judge people who are following the program and have had success. It doesn't mean that they support or condone child abuse. I would venture to guess that few people even know about this. I hope that if you decide to stop going to AA (which I can understand why) that you have some support to replace it so that you don't find yourself back drinking and into destructive behavior. If you really do have an addiction to alcohol, it can be a long hard road back to where you are. I wish you the best and hope you find support that is real and relevant. lots of hugs

nelliefay 06/20/2011

sorry if I misled you, littlegirl, but this guy wasn't a paedophile. He was allegedly taking sexual advantage of adult female newcomers to AA. thanks for your comments, and thanks too pinkfreud. There are other support groups, these days, so I can always go there.

deleted_user 06/21/2011

The trouble with AA, is that it's success isn't really success. The actual stats on it and people on the outside are exactly the same. It's just people that made the decision to get their lives together, getting together. It's pretty much like saying a lucky charm gave you good luck. If you believe it works.....................................
There is lots of info out on this now, one good one to watch is Penn and Teller's "Bullshit" which can be watched on YouTube. It well really open your eyes and give you your own power back. There are lots of ways to get better, even though the "Twelve Steppers" would have you believe different. Nobody ever gets well unless they want to. The problem with many is that they can never imagine themselves without the crutch. Good friends who don't get loaded are all I need now. A good many people at meetings are not addicts or alcoholics, but are binging self medicators, who haven't dealt with their shit, even with the steps! A good many sponsors, just can't deal with our kind of problems and have no business trying. In this sense, AA and the twelve step groups are much like the Church of Scientology. I did meetings faithfully and regularly for over seventeen years and have to cry, BULLSHIT !
Nellie, there are people here that truly do unconditionally love you for who you are, so keep comin' back huh!

nelliefay 06/21/2011

thanks a lot treego and every who's commented. I guess I'm really hurt and disappointed with my female AA friends. They, two of them, said 'even if its' true, he's only human, and YOU'RE being judgemental..' So, I just wondered if others here can say that to sexually exploit vulnerable women is unacceptable. And that a person who did that has no credibility when it comes to advice on how to live?

deleted_user 06/21/2011

There's nothing wrong with being judgmental, as long as it's good judgement! We have to make judgements every day and those people are just talking like puppets or sheep. We can also call them "Sheeple", people who never do their own reasoning and go on blind faith. The Germans did a lot of that before and during WWII. As a matter of fact, some of the early AA or Oxford people had connections to the NAZIS. Does that surprise anyone? Some people just want to be controlled!

deleted_user 06/21/2011

Treego raised some fab points, especially about the sheeple bit. I see it all too often in almost every avenue of life, be it politics, media, and even 'organized' support groups, perhaps like AA even. I'm very inclined to alternative thought, have read up a lot on the subject, and have my own beliefs when it comes to such issues. Many organizational entities have done far more harm than good to humanity- just look at modern medicine.

In the end, I concur with Treego- we all seek help in different ways and are able to see the light of the tunnel only because we have taken the step forward to help ourselves and heal. For one, I would've never considered therapy had it not been for my own acknowledgement of my problems and my determination to fight my demons.

In that regard Nell, you don't need AA as long as you have your drive to be happy in life. As for those two women who called that creep 'human' and called YOU judgmental (!)- you're better off not being in the company of such folks than to have such people at such a crucial juncture in your life. And yes- anyone like that man really has no credibility when it comes to meting out advice on how to live. It's sheer hypocrisy.

Sometimes, we're far better off walking with a slight limp than having a rickety crutch to hold onto.

Hope I haven't rambled on too much.

nelliefay 06/21/2011

Pinkfreud, you didn't ramble, and I appreciate your comments and support. I'm trained from childhood sex abuse etc, to doubt myself, so it was a comfort to hear that you also think those women have it wrong. I'm glad you also think that such behaviour, as preying sexually on vulnerable women, is unacceptable. And that someone who does so has NOTHING to offer on how to live a spiritual life! I spoke to ANOTHER AA friend last night. His response is to deny any of it happened, and to say 'besides, Bill W didn't write the steps, god did.' ?????????????

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