Incest Survivors Support Group
Incest refers to any sexual activity between closely related persons that is illegal or socially taboo. Consensual adult incest is very rare. Incest between adults and prepubescent or adolescent children is a form of child sexual abuse that has been shown to be one of the most extreme forms of childhood trauma. If you or a loved one is a survivor of incest, join the group...
I understand that Newbie02's post could be upsetting, but I believe DS made a mistake in taking that post off the boards.
I also believe the post was a legitimate request for information and not a troll looking for self-gratification--or whatever.
In response to Newbie02, who asked, in part, "Does anyone else view ANY PART of incest as positive," (the caps are mine) I said that I believed "...there is nothing positive about incest itself because we were victims."
"The FALLOUT from incest can be turned into something positive--because now we have the choice to do that."
"...the suffering and pain of incest, rape, and sexual abuse forced me to find the Self of me that knew it was greater than all the abuse and who refused to be defined by it."
I had also read a few other uplifting posts, before it was taken off the boards that, to me, offered encouragement and hope that all was not lost.
I know that in spite of the pain and suffering of incest we can move through that suffering and pain by facing it, processing it and letting it go and with that work become stronger, sensitive, more compassionate people.
Not all of life's experiences are positive, certainly the Holocaust was not a positive experience but what came out of it was: Simon Wiesenthal, Viktor Frankl, Elie Wiesel, the Holocaust Museum that serves as reminder, and many other things.
I hope Newbie02 read enough posts, before it was removed, to understand that although incest in and of itself is not positive, that experience can be used for self-discovery and deep growth--if we choose--and that that is positive.
xx
SuzA
P.S. The "ignore" button can be helpful.
I also believe the post was a legitimate request for information and not a troll looking for self-gratification--or whatever.
In response to Newbie02, who asked, in part, "Does anyone else view ANY PART of incest as positive," (the caps are mine) I said that I believed "...there is nothing positive about incest itself because we were victims."
"The FALLOUT from incest can be turned into something positive--because now we have the choice to do that."
"...the suffering and pain of incest, rape, and sexual abuse forced me to find the Self of me that knew it was greater than all the abuse and who refused to be defined by it."
I had also read a few other uplifting posts, before it was taken off the boards that, to me, offered encouragement and hope that all was not lost.
I know that in spite of the pain and suffering of incest we can move through that suffering and pain by facing it, processing it and letting it go and with that work become stronger, sensitive, more compassionate people.
Not all of life's experiences are positive, certainly the Holocaust was not a positive experience but what came out of it was: Simon Wiesenthal, Viktor Frankl, Elie Wiesel, the Holocaust Museum that serves as reminder, and many other things.
I hope Newbie02 read enough posts, before it was removed, to understand that although incest in and of itself is not positive, that experience can be used for self-discovery and deep growth--if we choose--and that that is positive.
xx
SuzA
P.S. The "ignore" button can be helpful.
I understand we all feel differently.
Hope all have a good day!
Something that's always bothered me is why God or whomever created reality as we know it would set it up the way they did...where growth comes out of suffering and destruction of innocence ...from extremes like when an innocent little child is abused but if not that... just life, The innocent child subjected to peoples anger, disappointment, disillusioned, learning that life is painful place and that the reality is staying innocent and sensitive is not a good thing esp if we're to survive and thrive. I understand your point and it's true. The incest forced you to grow in ways that made you a better and stronger person, perhaps better than you ever would have been without it happening. Something similar happened with me...although while I've done good things driven by passion because of what happened to me, I still remain affected. It's impossible for either of us to know who or what we may have become or contributed to the world if the abuse has never happened. Maybe less but maybe more
I just find the beauty of a child so filled with life, awe and wonder, the purity of their hearts as close to God;s as we ever are so magnificent and anguish over it's loss....to have that light in their innocent little eyes extinguished in a flash through abuse like an adult, a trusted adult who uses them in a sexual way that they can't possible understand and in than moment their life forever changed, a normal childhood gone in an instant ....how anything good, no matter how good coming from that moment and what then followed, often for years or the rest of childhood.....ever really quite makes up for that moment when that beautiful innocence light in the child's eyes flickered out.
I get it but I don't.
I don't think I'd agree that "Everything that happens, no matter how tragic is a positive," because you're right, not everyone makes the choice to grow from it; some do become bitter, cynical, lead miserable, unhappy lives, etc.
It's not the trauma itself that's positive, but what we choose to do with the fallout from the trauma that holds the possibility of deep growth, compassion, empathy and drive.
And again, you are right to say "It's impossible for either of us to know who or what we may have become or contributed to the world if the abuse had never happened. Maybe less but maybe more."
As for a child's lost innocence...I just can't say because I can only see a small part of the workings of life.
Very tender post, sadave--your voice is always welcomed. I too, "get it but I don't."
xx
SuzA
I know it sounds as if our choice to grow from trauma or not is clear-cut and easily made. For some, it is. For me, I made the choice to heal and grow at a sub-conscious level.
And I'd guess that almost everyone on this board has made a choice to heal or they'd not be searching here.
But, for others, depending on what vulnerabilities they came into this world with and if those vulnerable spots were triggered by family and trauma experiences, there may be no choice.
They may have been so beaten down they end up bitter, cynical, and desperately unhappy.
I add this thought because I must remind myself that not everyone will heal...and that brings me much sadness.
Not to end on a sad note, I will say I was blessed to witness the healing process of a ritual abuse survivor in a survivor workshop I attended for my own healing. She was then, and is now an awesome woman.
For those able to seek it--healing is a reality.
xx
SuzA
I so agree with you.the post really did not bother me much although i think my intuition was not good when i first read it.
I answered for both in case she meant something offensive and in case she didn't.But i like your words.
Plain ans simple you put it,
" The progress and positive advancement I have made is not a positive from the incest but a positive from my own hard work."
No EXCUSE, NO BS....You're right there is nothing positive about incest or even the experience and we should separate it from who we are now good people.
Incest did not turns us into good understanding people....we did.
Noone chooses to not recover if they can't there is something in their neurochemistry that doesn't allow it...
Docs have said that abuse and neglect victims who had no intervention when they were still rather young will probably never recover....Some don't and it has nothing to do with will power or choice...They just can't.
Bruce Perry PHD child psychiatrist in his book the boy who was raised as a dog explains why.And in his site too.
childtraumaacademy
Trust me the things I would like to change list is much bigger, but that is a different story.
I just hope we did not lose a member of this group.
That's a good thing. It gives everyone the opportunity to express themselves.
Sorry guys, I just can't see a heinous crime against a baby's (child's) soul as positive in any fashion. Yes, I've overcome, healed and moved past a whole lot, but how much greater (and happier during childhood) would I have been but for these acts.
I simply can't see the "friend of a victim" coming on board and asking about positive results from incest.
Any hoooooo, glad to hear all your comments.
There is nothing positive about incest.
It's how the FALLOUT from incest is handled that makes the difference.
Fallout includes, among other things: low self-esteem, PTSD, anxiety, depression, sleep problems, self-hatred, cutting, self-medicating with drugs, food, sex, shopping, etc., etc., etc.--unfortunately the list is long.
But it's how you go about handling that fallout that will enrich your life or not. For me, it was the fallout from incest, rape, and long-term sexual abuse that pushed me to dig deep and to realize the paradox inherent in trauma--it contains both the seeds of destruction and the seeds called 'potential to live a richer life'--and for me, this is a positive.
Engage your brain in creating a richer life. According to recent research by Richard Davidson, Ph.D., and I quote:
"...the revolution in neuroplasticity has shown that the brain can change as a result of two distinct inputs. It can change as a result of the experience we have in the world--how we move and behave and what sensory signals arrive in your cortex. The brain can also change in response to purely mental activity, ranging from meditation to cognitive-behavior therapy, with the result that activity in specific circuits can increase or decrease."
For those interested, Davidson's book is called, The Emotional Life of Your Brain. (First print was 2012)
And if you're looking for a cognitive-behavioral therapist in your community check at www.beckinstitute.org.
Although there will be some who do not recover, I believe most can. I also believe that, as it relates to the brain, and again I quote:
"...nature has endowed the human brain with a malleability and flexibility that lets it adapt to the demands of the world it finds itself in. The brain is neither immutable nor static but continuously remodeled by the lives we lead."
Live your best life.
xx
SuzA
P.S. My focus and belief has always been that I can heal. And even when the neuroscientists and neuroanatomists claimed the brain to be "fixed, ended, immutable" I never believed it.
But that is me. Honor your own beliefs, listen to your gut and keep an open mind. With any post, including this one, "Take what you need and leave the rest," as they say in 12-Step.
xx