Suzee1

I'm not sure that I provided the range of optimal doses (I re-read Dr. Mercola's article and didn't see anything there).

If you meant to say "range of optimal levels", please know that your lab's ranges need to be the exact same as vanillabear's for the information to apply to you.

If your lab ranges are different, I'd be more than happy to do the math for you to show you what the mid-range FreeT4/T3 levels are as well as the 70% value (upper third).

These are just treatment guidelines as published in many medical reference sources including the online thyroid textbook www.thyroidmanager.org

Most people fare well with levels somewhere in the ranges I mentioned.....it's extremely rare for someone to be healthy with levels below mid-range.

And, some people need higher levels than the ranges I shared and I am one of them. I really need my FreeT4 level at 95% of range (or higher) and my FreeT3 level at 80% of range (or higher) to be symptom-free.

If you think about it, the normal ranges were results obtained from 2000 supposedly healthy people. However, there are an estimated 30 million Americans suffering with undiagnosed hypothyroidism so, the lower ends of the range more than likely represent the results obtained from those people.

While the lab median (mid-range values) *should* represent the values obtained from the largest number of people, based upon the number of undiagnosed hypo people, the more common levels for truly healthy people are as I shared with you.

Hope this makes sense.

me again with a little disclaimer about the site I linked re benefits of regular eating:

I don't think the actual diet the site administrator follows is necessarily good - it seems to be devoid in fruits/vegetables.

But, her information about the need for eating regularly is quite accurate.

Thanks for your help and support, I really appreciate it. From what you posted on symptoms, they are alot like hyperthyroid stuff, my endo told me that the diarrhea is a big part of hyper and the slight hand tremors and the not sleeping well and I get anxiety and when I do, my heart just races. I try to eat little bits here and there so I am consuming something, and then I eat alot of healthy stuff when I can eat. I know it's not perfect, but I am trying. This is my second dose of Armour, I have a headache today.
Barbell, I am cautious of antidepressants, but I know many people on them and on Armour and other thyroid meds that are just fine. If it's not working for you, then maybe it's your body telling you you can't handle it or you don't really need it. From my own personal experience with family, if you truly need the antidepressants then you will do sooo much better on them and if you are someone that can't handle it then your body doesn't need it, maybe try something more natural. I was put on synthroid a year ago, but it gave me huge migraines the first time I took it and I kept at it for two weeks and she told me to stop taking it, this was before they found out that I don't produce T3 on my own.
Thanks, I will look up T1 and T2, I was wondering why they never test those levels, but I just assumed that they were tied into the TSH levels. Originally I was told that pregnancy is a natural anti inflammatory because of the raised hormone levels, but I don't understand why my stomach issues would be completely gone. So I'm not sure why too, I am still trying to find research on it to see what is wrong with my body. Because all my friends with celiac disease say that they are still sick when they are preggers, so I don't know and the doctors can't explain it. Also barbell, everything effects the absorbtion, I also take birth control pills and the doctor told me that everything is fine as long as you have at least 4 hours difference inbetween the meds. As I posted earlier, I am on a very low dose, 15 mg everyday, so I probably won't notice a difference yet.
Thank you so much for giving me more of your research, it really helps me to be more aware of what is going on and help me to stay strong onfront of my doctor so I don't end up being pushed around. I am kind of wondering if it would help if maybe I took one pill in the morning and then another one in the afternoon. I'll wait a week and then call my doctor and see what she thinks.

Thanks for sharing some more of your story, vanillabear.

I was curious to hear more about your hyperthyroid symptoms as well as any possible experiences with Synthroid because, people that have been dealing with untreated or improperly treated hypothyroidism for a long time can develop adrenal issues.

In turn, if the adrenal issues aren't correct before or during thyroid treatment, a person can suffer with hyper symptoms when they start taking thyroid meds.

And, yes, diarrhea is usually a hyper symptoms as is hand tremors. Anxiety, palpitations and problems sleeping can be either hyper or hypo.

Your labs are definitely hypo.

Have you ever had your adrenals tested? While I'm not familiar with the exact tests nor the interpretation of them, I have heard enough on thyroid forums over the past 4+ years to know that addressing any potential adrenal issues are very important if a person is having hyper symptoms when taking thyroid meds.

I hope you don't mind me asking you so many questions but, there is one other thing that comes to mind. Do you have specific times that you have these hyper symptoms? As in, would you consider them to be cycling at all?

I ask this because there is another form of thyroid disease that can cause stuff like this.

Many people with Hashi's test positive for either/both TPOab's and/or TGab's....but, not always.

People with the other form of Hashi's actually have low levels of the Graves' antibody - TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin)

The presence of those TSI antibodies result in the patient having hypothyroid labs (and symptoms) but, also hyper symptoms. There is a separate treatment protocol for this form of Hashi's called "Hashitoxicosis".

Have you ever been tested for TSI?

These are the final pieces of the thyroid puzzle and just might help you nail down whatever might be causing you problems thyroid-wise.

I'm sharing these links separately if you'd like to read up on adrenal issues:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

http://www.thyrophoenix.com/adrenals.htm

Thank you so much for bringing that up. Someone else on here has mentioned that they have Hashimoto's and Graves disease, and it kept me wondering if you could have both. I have had my adrenals checked because I seriously thought I had Addison's and not Hashimoto's because of my symptoms, she said they were all fine along with my hormone levels as well. But I will ask about these tests, I definately want to get them checked if there is another treatment protocol for it. She did tell me that I am a rare case for her, and I have had many doctors baffled the past few months, but I just assume it's them and not me. So I will definately look into this.
As far as cycling, What's normal for me is that I will get diarrhea really bad and the only way to get rid of it is to take immodium so I'll take that until it goes away and then the next day I am fine and usually the following day as well, and usually the third day after I will feel alittle constipated only until I get relief which doesn't take very long and then the forth day I have diarrhea again, this has been normal for me for 14 years. but then in July I was having issues everyday. I would take 4-5 immodium a day and I would still be in alot of pain and I could not get it to go away. That's when All the testing started and I went off all gluten and milk products and most fruits and veggies. Then it started to subside slowly in October and now I am back to that cycle. But the cycle is always broken, I always get an upset stomach after I eat greasy or spicy things unless it's the day I take the immodium. So I have been trying to plan things around when my stomach will be ok to eat at resteraunts or activities where I won't have to run to the bathroom. I try my best to have nothing planned the whole morning on the day my stomach will get upset. It's never at the same time either, lately it's been in the mornings, but if it's a day I have an appointment that I have to be at, I get it 2 hours before I need to be there. So when I get nervous, it triggers it 10 times worse than normal and I get really bad anxiety from it. It's sooooo anoying. As far as the tremors, they get worse when I am working out or cleaning, anytime my heart rate goes up, they get worse.
I don't mind you asking me questions at all, whatever way I can find help. I am an open book at this point until I can get some help, and I can't find anymore info in my research because I don't know anymore what to look for at this point, so I really appreciate you helping me and bringing up more possibilities that I can test for. I am determined to not make this sickness my life, I want my life better.

I participate on another thyroid forum as well and there are 2 members currently dealing with Hashitoxicosis (both found out they had it after posting on the forum about their confusing situation and we provided information that led to diagnosis and treatment).

There is yet another member that is still struggling for diagnosis (she is testing positive for low levels of TSI, has hypo labs yet cycles with hyper symptoms)

Unfortunately, just as doctors haven't kept up with things in regards to diagnosing/treating more common forms of thyroid disease, there are even fewer doctors familiar with Hashitoxicosis.

But, at least there is a treatment protocol and, just as the two members from the other forum did, you could bring information to your doctor and hopefully work together on your treatment.

It would be good for you to get the TSI test to hopefully rule it out.

And, you really need to see the actual test result. It's usually a percentage and will usually show "normal" as anything less than a certain number.

Well, healthy people will test less than 2 so, if you have a result higher than that, there's a good chance you're dealing with Hashitoxicosis.

Now that you've clarified your symptoms further, and shared that you've been dealing with this for 14 years, I do wonder if the diarrhea is part of the IBS-like symptoms that undiagnosed hypothyroid people deal with.

I think we all wish we had a crystal ball to know what our TSH levels were years before we got diagnosed with thyroid disease.

So many doctors wait until the TSH level rises above-range before diagnosing people. Yet, it can take years for this to happen. All the while, the patient is truly hypothyroid.

Another hypo symptom is bizarre reaction to exercise/exertion so, I do wonder if your elevated heart rate and tremors would fall into that category.

And, anxiety/worry is a natural progression of this....these, too, are common in hypo.

While we don't know for sure if all your issues are due to your hypothyroidism, optimizing your levels would let you know.

So, I'm glad you're starting Armour because that is most definitely a step in the right direction.

Please continue to keep in touch on here because we can help you along the way.

I have a long-term thyroid bud that I "met" on my first-ever thyroid forum over 4 years ago. She had a TT many moons ago and helped me SO much with the minutia associated with thyroid hormone replacement.

I am here to pay that forward.

Here's a link to a summary of an article written by Dr. Ken Blanchard. He's a noted endo and is the author of "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Hypothyroidism".

He writes about people taking T4-only meds and dealing with things like fibro, IBS-type symptoms, chronic fatigue, etc.

These same conditions have been associated with untreated hypothyroidism and, obviously, improperly treated hypothyroidism (as in people taking only T4 meds when they need T3)

http://www.power-surge.com/educate/hypothyroidism.htm

Have you ever tried eating "good" yogurt (as in non-sweetened, active cultures) on a regular basis?

There are some members on the other thyroid forum I'm on that have had success with this and their IBS-type symptoms....these members are also dealing with hypothyroidism.

I eat Greek yogurt (higher in protein than regular yogurt and non-fat) every day as part of a smoothie I have for lunch. I include mixed berries, a banana, chia seeds (high protein and Omega 3's) and whey protein powder along with some 1% milk.

I started having these smoothies because I wanted to increase my protein intake which was necessary due to the extreme fitness program I've been doing.

I was feeling really good when I started having these smoothies for lunch - now, I feel even better. It's very hard to explain because it's an internal feeling - like I'm more healthy or something.

I don't know if this is due to the antioxidants from the berries, the potassium/fiber in the banana, the Omega 3's, the protein my muscles need or what but, it's all good.

Just thought I'd share :)

Thank you, I really appreciate it. I will definately be calling my doctor next week to see if she can add the test to my labs. So far my doctor has been good about listening to what I am researching online and doing the tests that I request. So I think I'm lucky with that. I will keep you posted, but I might not be able to get the test done and results for 4 weeks. Let me know if you have any other sites that might help me. Thanks for your support, it really helps and I am so glad that there are people out there like you who care about people. it's rare.

Thanks for your kind words.

I've accumulated a TON of information over the past 4+ years I've been researching thyroid disease.

I have quite the extensive library now of thyroid textbooks, books about thyroid disease in general as well as medical journal articles.

In addition, I maintain an extensive library of links.

Thyroid forum members pointed me in the right direction for this information.

As we work together, I will share whatever seems appropriate at the moment.

Seriously, though, I am motivated to help others deal with their thyroid disease because of the help I received in the beginning - it's just the right thing to do.

Barbell

I think most people can figure out where I'm coming from on here.

For whatever it's worth, thyroid textbooks are quite clear as far as what thyroid hormone levels most healthy people have....and what treatment goals should be.

So, whether a patient is taking Synthroid, Cytomel, or Armour, the biochemical principles still apply.

I don't tell people what dose to take....I suggest they talk to their doctor about dose adjustments when their levels aren't similar to the types of levels recommended in thyroid textbooks.

I'm not an expert but, I'm well-researched and, quite frankly, sometimes more well-researched than some of the doctors that try to treat us.

I've been participating on multiple thyroid forums for over 4 years so, I've heard alot of stories.

I provide what I consider useful information to help a patient have a meaningful conversation with his/her doctor.

Knowledge is power.....and I'm sharing mine with others on here so they can advocate for the proper care - something many of us have not received when dealing with thyroid disease.

Barbell

You seem to find new things to pick on me about....in fact, I remember from my earlier participation on here that you were involved in many instances of forum drama - all it does is detract from what we are here for.

You can Google the thyroid textbook I quote from - "The Thyroid and Its Diseases" - it is written by several endos, Dr. Leslie DeGroot being one of them.

I shared Dr. Mercola's website because his advice mirrors what I've read in thyroid textbooks.

And, for whatever it's worth, osteopaths ARE MD's with advanced training in osteopathic medicine.

I, too, care about the health and welfare of the people on here - that's why I share with them the information I have gleaned through research.

I am going to take advantage of the ignore function on here so I can focus my time on doing what I came here to do.

So, say whatever you will.....I won't know what you wrote and, therefore, won't be responding. Much better for all.

vanillabear and anyone else reading on here

I apologize for the drama that ensued on here.....I took the steps I found necessary to prevent my further involvement with it.

One of the many purposes of forums is the exchange of information. It is up to the reader to do with it as they may.

I know that my first-ever thyroid forum pointed me in the right direction for research and I am forever grateful for that.

The Graves' forum on here has several regular members that post in a manner very similar to mine.. They have helped lead patients to remission when the doctors were pushing permanent treatment.

The other thyroid forum I participate on is more focused on hypothyroidism. It also has several regular members that post in a manner very similar to mine. They, too, have helped patients get better.

Many of our doctors certainly aren't helping so, if we can get the information we need from a forum to kick-start research in the right direction, good for us.

Thanks for plodding through this and, again, my apologies for any distraction from the true purpose of this forum.

Now, back to helping people the way I always did - yay!

cd:

No apologies is necessary from my part. I've had to use the ignore function here as well.

Love and {{{hugs}}} to you. :-)